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Post by nuggetshipster on May 25, 2024 1:56:11 GMT -5
Those stats existed when Malone chose not to play him in the playoffs no? Stats isnt everything I’m not in the camp bashing Malone for not playing Watson in the TWolves’ series. I am pretty confident that the coaching staff had assessed the matchup this way — if each team is playing half court offense and not turning the ball over much, the Nuggets win; otherwise the TWolves win. Their game plan was to keep turnovers very low and win a half court grind style game. Watson’s skills still lack polish and Malone lacked confidence he wouldn’t turn the ball over. agreed. Im just saying that starting Watson isnt the solution to our problems. Isolated. If he was then the coaching staff would have known it and played him |
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Post by JB on May 25, 2024 7:59:04 GMT -5
nobody claimed starting Watson in our current context was the "solution to our problems".
I claimed in a hypothetical scenario where we traded MPJ for Bruce Brown and Gary Trent Jr, it might benefit the Nuggets to start Watson to maintain a size advantage and have three starting caliber players off the bench so Malone has no need to stagger one of Jamal/Joker.
Erik, you can't pick and choose which part of a sentence to respond to. that's not how language works.
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Post by nuggetshipster on May 25, 2024 8:38:10 GMT -5
Why do i need to break down every part of your post. I aint risking Jokic prime starting a Watson. Dont matter if we have BB or Trent on the bench. Or both.
I want championship proven staring SG and SF.
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Post by Ring on May 25, 2024 10:45:15 GMT -5
Watson is nowhere near ready to contribute as a starting NBA player. He's not even a playoff rotation player at this point which we saw play out in this run.
He is way too raw offensively and doesn't have an NBA ready shot. He's also way too weak to play the 4 which is why he was getting obliterated in the post by bigger players.
Peyton is a great project and has great player potential but he has a ton of work to do in the offseason. Plays too fast (he's 21 so expected), can't shoot, isn't great 1 on 1 defensively, isn't a great rebounder. He's an awesome weak side defender and can recover because of his length but that's really all he offers you on the basketball court outside of transition offense.
I remain very high on him.
CB you can slot in as a starter and you won't lose a ton. You'll lose shooting but you'll gain rebounding, cutting to the rim, energy, etc. Watson you cannot. He's nowhere near ready for a role like that. On a team like the Wizards? Sure. On a contender? No. He's lucky to have a rotation spot.
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Post by Ring on May 25, 2024 10:50:48 GMT -5
Many people here wrote the same exact thing about Connelly and Will Barton. Don’t take any of that seriously. And unless I am mistaken it was Malone who commented at length about MPJ. For all we know, Josh will be encouraging the FO to evaluate possibilites for an MPJ trade. The Kroenkes see everyone not named Kroenke as an employee who is fungible to some extent. Much less than usual with Jokic for obvious reasons, but still. That's not how KSE works. If Malone is saying that then he was essentially told by KSE that MPJ isn't going anywhere. Face this fact... KSE refuses to admit MPJ was a mistake with a max deal. With that stated his numbers and size would still likely garner a deal at $25 mil/year as it's not like he's the sole reason Nuggets are nearing the 2nd apron. In contrast, they are slowly making it obvious KCP likely will walk if he gets the expected 2-3 year deal at $20 mil/year (Sixers). The problem with MPJ is the same problem with Jamal and it's just consistency. Against the Lakers MPJ looked like a max player and one that was actually getting better. You put a long, physical team on him and he has no way to counter it. I do think the Nuggets have done a terrible job implementing him into the offense though since Day 1. Come playoff time they just spam the 2 man game and it works 85-90% of the time. But the 10-15% of the time that it doesn't, they have no real counter to it other than Jokic post ups. I don't think it's a coincidence that the 2 man game never got going in the Wolves series and the offense looked like s**t the entire time. Like you paid MPJ a max. You should at least treat him like he's a big part of the offense if you're going to give him that money. They haven't done that though. There's no reason why you can't run that guy off of a ton of screens every game. It'll compromise the defense even when he doesn't get the ball due to his gravity and shot making in general. The Nuggets rely WAY too heavily on Murray/Jokic. When those 2 aren't perfect, your offense looks the way it did against Minnesota because they've never built any other option to go to. |
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Post by wizardofcozz on May 25, 2024 11:06:04 GMT -5
That's not how KSE works. If Malone is saying that then he was essentially told by KSE that MPJ isn't going anywhere. Face this fact... KSE refuses to admit MPJ was a mistake with a max deal. With that stated his numbers and size would still likely garner a deal at $25 mil/year as it's not like he's the sole reason Nuggets are nearing the 2nd apron. In contrast, they are slowly making it obvious KCP likely will walk if he gets the expected 2-3 year deal at $20 mil/year (Sixers). The problem with MPJ is the same problem with Jamal and it's just consistency. Against the Lakers MPJ looked like a max player and one that was actually getting better. You put a long, physical team on him and he has no way to counter it. I do think the Nuggets have done a terrible job implementing him into the offense though since Day 1. Come playoff time they just spam the 2 man game and it works 85-90% of the time. But the 10-15% of the time that it doesn't, they have no real counter to it other than Jokic post ups. I don't think it's a coincidence that the 2 man game never got going in the Wolves series and the offense looked like s**t the entire time. Like you paid MPJ a max. You should at least treat him like he's a big part of the offense if you're going to give him that money. They haven't done that though. There's no reason why you can't run that guy off of a ton of screens every game. It'll compromise the defense even when he doesn't get the ball due to his gravity and shot making in general. The Nuggets rely WAY too heavily on Murray/Jokic. When those 2 aren't perfect, your offense looks the way it did against Minnesota because they've never built any other option to go to. Agree with alot if this. We've done nothing to diversify our offense and have actions where other guys can score outside of what they do in the 2-man game or MPJ getting a handoff. If Mike could get better at attacking closeouts and playing off the dribble more he would definitely get closer to earning his contract. |
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Post by JB on May 25, 2024 11:20:24 GMT -5
Watson is nowhere near ready to contribute as a starting NBA player. He's not even a playoff rotation player at this point which we saw play out in this run. He is way too raw offensively and doesn't have an NBA ready shot. He's also way too weak to play the 4 which is why he was getting obliterated in the post by bigger players. Peyton is a great project and has great player potential but he has a ton of work to do in the offseason. Plays too fast (he's 21 so expected), can't shoot, isn't great 1 on 1 defensively, isn't a great rebounder. He's an awesome weak side defender and can recover because of his length but that's really all he offers you on the basketball court outside of transition offense. I remain very high on him. CB you can slot in as a starter and you won't lose a ton. You'll lose shooting but you'll gain rebounding, cutting to the rim, energy, etc. Watson you cannot. He's nowhere near ready for a role like that. On a team like the Wizards? Sure. On a contender? No. He's lucky to have a rotation spot. he shot 38% from 3 on wide open shots last season which seems to indicate he's better suited as a 5th best starter than a 7th man. and his defense will create offense by creating fast break opportunities. this would be his second season in terms of playing time, but third season in terms of learning the NBA game. he's going to improve Ring. this is the "make or break" time for Watson and I wouldn't be opposed to give him that leap of faith promotion if we break MPJ's salary into two bench players. we need to lessen the burden of Joker and Jamal by keeping them on the floor together. no more stagger. |
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Post by eathb on May 26, 2024 17:55:20 GMT -5
I would keep a roster spot open for that inevitable time when vets get waived at the trade deadline.
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Post by Camby's Left Nut on May 27, 2024 5:33:39 GMT -5
I would keep a roster spot open for that inevitable time when vets get waived at the trade deadline. Another bonus about being a 2nd apron team is that we're not allowed to sign buyout guys after the deadline anymore. Or at least in the majority of circumstances that are usually applicable. |
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Post by wizardofcozz on May 27, 2024 7:40:32 GMT -5
I would keep a roster spot open for that inevitable time when vets get waived at the trade deadline. Another bonus about being a 2nd apron team is that we're not allowed to sign buyout guys after the deadline anymore. Or at least in the majority of circumstances that are usually applicable. That's why those saying ti save a roster soit for the buyout market are misinformed at least for this coming year if we are 2nd apron which is what we'll br with everyone back. |
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Post by jimijam28 on May 27, 2024 10:21:01 GMT -5
one trick pony - malone needs to come up with some new game plans
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Post by wicked3line on May 27, 2024 10:24:00 GMT -5
Another bonus about being a 2nd apron team is that we're not allowed to sign buyout guys after the deadline anymore. Or at least in the majority of circumstances that are usually applicable. That's why those saying ti save a roster soit for the buyout market are misinformed at least for this coming year if we are 2nd apron which is what we'll br with everyone back. ...and that's why I don't see KSE bringing back KCP as going into the 2nd apron assumes they don't need to make any modifications yet we all know the bench needs major help. Don't get me wrong as I'd much rather see MPJ shipped out the door for a couple of solid rotation players (especially a scorer and backup C) but it appears KSE has decided to keep MPJ. Not sure what they can get back for Zeke but it appears that along with the tax payer MLE (assuming they stay below 2nd apron) are what Booth is going to use. |
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Post by JB on May 27, 2024 10:32:44 GMT -5
we'll see.
letting KCP walk and committing eternally to MPJ and Calvin's second-round draft disappointments is Einstein's definition of insanity, only we'll be even worse and the odds of (serious) injury to one of the starters will be significantly higher. we would be committing serious basketball malpractice to squander the remainder of Jokic's prime in such a manner.
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Post by Ring on May 27, 2024 11:43:53 GMT -5
Watson is nowhere near ready to contribute as a starting NBA player. He's not even a playoff rotation player at this point which we saw play out in this run. He is way too raw offensively and doesn't have an NBA ready shot. He's also way too weak to play the 4 which is why he was getting obliterated in the post by bigger players. Peyton is a great project and has great player potential but he has a ton of work to do in the offseason. Plays too fast (he's 21 so expected), can't shoot, isn't great 1 on 1 defensively, isn't a great rebounder. He's an awesome weak side defender and can recover because of his length but that's really all he offers you on the basketball court outside of transition offense. I remain very high on him. CB you can slot in as a starter and you won't lose a ton. You'll lose shooting but you'll gain rebounding, cutting to the rim, energy, etc. Watson you cannot. He's nowhere near ready for a role like that. On a team like the Wizards? Sure. On a contender? No. He's lucky to have a rotation spot. he shot 38% from 3 on wide open shots last season which seems to indicate he's better suited as a 5th best starter than a 7th man. and his defense will create offense by creating fast break opportunities. this would be his second season in terms of playing time, but third season in terms of learning the NBA game. he's going to improve Ring. this is the "make or break" time for Watson and I wouldn't be opposed to give him that leap of faith promotion if we break MPJ's salary into two bench players. we need to lessen the burden of Joker and Jamal by keeping them on the floor together. no more stagger. They just need to play less minutes and that's on Malone. Malone next year really needs to blend lineups together better. But Watson is much closer to an 8th/9th man than he is a starter. He's still only NBA level at a few things (weakside help, energy) |
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Post by JB on May 27, 2024 12:02:18 GMT -5
picked a random sample size from a time Watson playing well
from December 8 to Jan 8 Watson played 22MPG and averaged 11/4/1.2 on 52% FG and 42% from 3. blocked 10 shots in that timespan
and that's without the Nikola Jokic stimulus package. I'd love to give him a shot and see what he does with it - provided we trade MPJ and make the roster more balanced.
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bird33
Skita's Pizza Delivery Guy
Posts: 2
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Post by bird33 on May 27, 2024 13:51:24 GMT -5
Please trade porter now!!!!!
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Post by JB on May 27, 2024 13:52:55 GMT -5
great fist post.
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Post by GBG on May 27, 2024 15:26:53 GMT -5
Your burner account, obviously. |
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Post by nuggetshipster on May 27, 2024 15:58:28 GMT -5
Another bonus about being a 2nd apron team is that we're not allowed to sign buyout guys after the deadline anymore. Or at least in the majority of circumstances that are usually applicable. That's why those saying ti save a roster soit for the buyout market are misinformed at least for this coming year if we are 2nd apron which is what we'll br with everyone back. Makes not doing it this year even worse. What was Calvin thinking with 4 rookies smh |
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Post by wicked3line on May 27, 2024 22:35:20 GMT -5
we'll see. letting KCP walk and committing eternally to MPJ and Calvin's second-round draft disappointments is Einstein's definition of insanity, only we'll be even worse and the odds of (serious) injury to one of the starters will be significantly higher. we would be committing serious basketball malpractice to squander the remainder of Jokic's prime in such a manner. Not saying I disagree with that as I'd rather see MPJ traded while keeping KCP. However, you better start preparing yourself for KCP to leave (Sixers) while MPJ is on next year's team as KSE is sending multiple signals that this is exactly what they are planning to do. |
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