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Post by famicommander on May 22, 2024 12:27:03 GMT -5
if we can't retain Facu Gilipse, that would be extremely unfortunate. he's already a better player than Reggie. That’s likely wishful thinking. RJ is close to washed but still has some (admittedly diminished) basketball skills and a 7’ wingspan. There is a reason the organization doesn’t see Gillespie as part of its future — physically he has only negatives and absolutely no positives — he’s very small but unlike guys like Facu and TJ McConnell he’s neither quick or strong. Gillespie turns 25 in June and there is little to no evidence he’s a legit NBA player. He's way, way bigger than Facu. People need to stop lumping everybody under 6'3" as the same size. Facu is 5'8" without his shoes. I know. I've literally stood within a few feet of him and I'm 5'10" barefoot. I'm definitely taller than he is, and I'm definitely several inches shorter than Gillespie (having stood near him as well). Gillespie is also measurably larger than McConnell in every aspect. Height, weight, wingspan, standing reach, hand length, hand width. McConnell at the combine: 6'0.5" barefoot, just under 6'2.0" in shoes 8'0.5" standing reach, 6'2.0" wingspan 188 pounds 7.5" by 7.0" hand size Gillespie at the combine: 6'1.5" barefoot, 6.2'75" in shoes 8'2.0" standing reach, 6'4.0" wingspan 196 pounds 8.25" by 9.0" hand size Gillespie also beat him in every speed drill (lane agility, shuttle run, three quarter court sprint), standing vertical leap, max vertical leap. Gillespie is longer, taller, heavier, faster, and stronger than McConnell. Significantly so. |
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Post by wizardofcozz on May 22, 2024 12:33:07 GMT -5
That’s likely wishful thinking. RJ is close to washed but still has some (admittedly diminished) basketball skills and a 7’ wingspan. There is a reason the organization doesn’t see Gillespie as part of its future — physically he has only negatives and absolutely no positives — he’s very small but unlike guys like Facu and TJ McConnell he’s neither quick or strong. Gillespie turns 25 in June and there is little to no evidence he’s a legit NBA player. He's way, way bigger than Facu. People need to stop lumping everybody under 6'3" as the same size. Facu is 5'8" without his shoes. I know. I've literally stood within a few feet of him and I'm 5'10" barefoot. I'm definitely taller than he is, and I'm definitely several inches shorter than Gillespie (having stood near him as well). Gillespie is also measurably larger than McConnell in every aspect. Height, weight, wingspan, standing reach, hand length, hand width. McConnell at the combine: 6'0.5" barefoot, just under 6'2.0" in shoes 8'0.5" standing reach, 6'2.0" wingspan 188 pounds 7.5" by 7.0" hand size Gillespie at the combine: 6'1.5" barefoot, 6.2'75" in shoes 8'2.0" standing reach, 6'4.0" wingspan 196 pounds 8.25" by 9.0" hand size I think that's why I wasn't high on the Gillespie pick, it's cause I liked CG as the 3rd string PG. Just stupid decision making their on booth's part imo. |
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Post by GBG on May 22, 2024 13:41:47 GMT -5
He's way, way bigger than Facu. People need to stop lumping everybody under 6'3" as the same size. Facu is 5'8" without his shoes. I know. I've literally stood within a few feet of him and I'm 5'10" barefoot. I'm definitely taller than he is, and I'm definitely several inches shorter than Gillespie (having stood near him as well). Gillespie is also measurably larger than McConnell in every aspect. Height, weight, wingspan, standing reach, hand length, hand width. McConnell at the combine: 6'0.5" barefoot, just under 6'2.0" in shoes 8'0.5" standing reach, 6'2.0" wingspan 188 pounds 7.5" by 7.0" hand size Gillespie at the combine: 6'1.5" barefoot, 6.2'75" in shoes 8'2.0" standing reach, 6'4.0" wingspan 196 pounds 8.25" by 9.0" hand size I think that's why I wasn't high on the Gillespie pick, it's cause I liked CG as the 3rd string PG. Just stupid decision making their on booth's part imo. I think you meant Pickett pick. |
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Post by wizardofcozz on May 22, 2024 13:55:09 GMT -5
I think that's why I wasn't high on the Gillespie pick, it's cause I liked CG as the 3rd string PG. Just stupid decision making their on booth's part imo. I think you meant Pickett pick. Yes. Sorry |
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Post by famicommander on May 22, 2024 14:36:12 GMT -5
The strangest thing about the Pickett pick is he's not much bigger than CG. He's half an inch taller barefoot, 3 inches longer wingspan, same standing reach, 2 pounds heavier, smaller hands (possible contributing factor to his weak handles), much slower across the board, 2 inch better vertical leap.
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Post by freakns on May 22, 2024 16:25:15 GMT -5
first of all, not all of us wants MPJ traded.
but lets assume Nuggets decide its time to move on, I'd love to know how that trade would look like?
please keep answers like trade MPJ and Zeke->Tatum for yourself, cause other team also needs to agree on it.
second, Reggie is not a problem like all of you think he is. Nuggets were 13-10 without Jamal. thats 46-47 W over 82 games. thats not bad considering you ditch your second best player for a backup. problem is, Jamal can't play with other PG. just like he couldn't play with BB last season, its just didn't work. lineups with Jamal and 4 bench players do not work and it has nothing to do with bench players. we have overwhelming evidence of it, and everyone but Malone has realize that.
so what you hoping for is trade Reggie, get new PG, and watch how lineups with that guy and Jamal doesn't work. then at the end of next season blame that guy and Booth, and call for a trade.
same will be with backup center. we had Hartenstein few years back. he come in as prominent backup center. what happened? well, he sucked, and it was all his fault. now, fact that he took over as starting center for Knicks this season and was phenomenal, its just made it worse, cause it was clear he was sabotaging Malones fantastic idea to play Jamal and 4 backups.
now, maybe, and just maybe, idea to have Jamal with 4 backups where Jamal dribbles the ball for 22 seconds then take contested shot is not the best way to run your offense? maybe even try something completely crazy, like have Jamal, MPJ and AG with two bench players, and Jokic and KCP with three bench players, and extend those minutes to 15 each and have only start and end game with starting 5? we've seen it playoffs it works, so you just need to extend those minutes so no starter goes over 35 minutes?! I know its my wet dream, cause Malone will rather have colonoscope three times every day then abandoning idea of Jamal+4 bench players, but man can dream...
this team works. we've seen this. MPJ is perfect player for Nuggets system, we've seen that also. so instead of being prisoner of the moment, maybe someone from organization should first check with Malone, is he willing to give a change to anyone who isn't 56 yrs or older? if he is, then f***ing do it! if he isn't then trade away every single rookie, second and third year player, including CB, and try to get Al Horford, PJ Tucker and Patty Mills and go from there.
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Post by famicommander on May 22, 2024 16:30:42 GMT -5
Reggie is going to be 35 next year. Whether you think he was "the problem" or not, it's not reasonable to ask him to give us 94 games again next year and given Jamal's health and his likely Olympic run there's every chance our PG2 and PG3 will have to give us big minutes again next year. That's why I want a new PG2, CG as PG3, and a new two-way as PG4.
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Post by wizardofcozz on May 22, 2024 17:08:04 GMT -5
first of all, not all of us wants MPJ traded. but lets assume Nuggets decide its time to move on, I'd love to know how that trade would look like? please keep answers like trade MPJ and Zeke->Tatum for yourself, cause other team also needs to agree on it. second, Reggie is not a problem like all of you think he is. Nuggets were 13-10 without Jamal. thats 46-47 W over 82 games. thats not bad considering you ditch your second best player for a backup. problem is, Jamal can't play with other PG. just like he couldn't play with BB last season, its just didn't work. lineups with Jamal and 4 bench players do not work and it has nothing to do with bench players. we have overwhelming evidence of it, and everyone but Malone has realize that. so what you hoping for is trade Reggie, get new PG, and watch how lineups with that guy and Jamal doesn't work. then at the end of next season blame that guy and Booth, and call for a trade. same will be with backup center. we had Hartenstein few years back. he come in as prominent backup center. what happened? well, he sucked, and it was all his fault. now, fact that he took over as starting center for Knicks this season and was phenomenal, its just made it worse, cause it was clear he was sabotaging Malones fantastic idea to play Jamal and 4 backups. now, maybe, and just maybe, idea to have Jamal with 4 backups where Jamal dribbles the ball for 22 seconds then take contested shot is not the best way to run your offense? maybe even try something completely crazy, like have Jamal, MPJ and AG with two bench players, and Jokic and KCP with three bench players, and extend those minutes to 15 each and have only start and end game with starting 5? we've seen it playoffs it works, so you just need to extend those minutes so no starter goes over 35 minutes?! I know its my wet dream, cause Malone will rather have colonoscope three times every day then abandoning idea of Jamal+4 bench players, but man can dream... this team works. we've seen this. MPJ is perfect player for Nuggets system, we've seen that also. so instead of being prisoner of the moment, maybe someone from organization should first check with Malone, is he willing to give a change to anyone who isn't 56 yrs or older? if he is, then f***ing do it! if he isn't then trade away every single rookie, second and third year player, including CB, and try to get Al Horford, PJ Tucker and Patty Mills and go from there. You partially hit the nail on the head and I agree with alot of what your saying. We need to stagger our starters and bench more. You also can see why our bench hasn't been good because Murray dribbles around and shoots contested shots. He CAN'T get to the rim and create for the other players cause he's not explosive enough imo. We need to get more cre as tive on offense. Run Jamal of screens and pin downs do different stuff to give him an advantage to attack. Same with MPJ run stuff for him. Cause outside of Jokic we have no creators on this team. I also think AG needs to look for his shot more. |
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Post by wizardofcozz on May 22, 2024 17:30:50 GMT -5
Thought this was interesting. Looking at basketball reference.
Per 36 minutes
Player A: 13.1 ppg/6.9 rpg/2.9 apg
46/38/70 shooting
Player V: 11.4 ppg/2.7 rpg/2.7 apg
46/40/89 shooting
Player A is Braun and Player B is KCP.
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Post by JB on May 22, 2024 17:39:32 GMT -5
the numbers are certainly lying to you in this case.
KCP has a +15.8 on/off this season. Braun has a -7.5 on/off
Pope is shooting over 40% from 3 on over 4 attempts per game while being respected as a shooter by opposing defenses. Braun is being left on an island and dared to shoot.
I'm not anti-Braun but he's not in Pope's stratosphere at the moment.
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Post by wizardofcozz on May 22, 2024 17:44:25 GMT -5
the numbers are certainly lying to you in this case. KCP has a +15.8 on/off this season. Braun has a -7.5 on/off Pope is shooting over 40% from 3 on over 4 attempts per game while being respected as a shooter by opposing defenses. Braun is being left on an island and dared to shoot. I'm not anti-Braun but he's not in Pope's stratosphere at the moment. That's not fair because KCP plays an inordinate amount of his minutes next to Jokic. Braun played most his minutes with the subs. |
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Post by wizardofcozz on May 22, 2024 17:55:05 GMT -5
the numbers are certainly lying to you in this case. KCP has a +15.8 on/off this season. Braun has a -7.5 on/off Pope is shooting over 40% from 3 on over 4 attempts per game while being respected as a shooter by opposing defenses. Braun is being left on an island and dared to shoot. I'm not anti-Braun but he's not in Pope's stratosphere at the moment. Braun/Jokic was best 2-man lineup on team! +15.6 Braun/KCP/Jokic is top 3-man lineup +21.7 Braun/KCP/Jokic/Gordon top 4-man lineup +30.3 |
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Post by JB on May 22, 2024 18:03:05 GMT -5
playing Braun and Pope together is a good idea because at least one of the two will stretch the opposing defense
asking Braun to replace Pope is not sustainable. teams will just live with Bruan beating them from 3 and use his defender as a free safety to stop Joker and Murray.
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Post by famicommander on May 22, 2024 18:13:36 GMT -5
It's worth noting that KCP shot 35% or worse from 3 in 5 of his first 6 seasons in the NBA. He didn't become the sniper he is now until midway through his career.
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Post by wizardofcozz on May 22, 2024 18:14:31 GMT -5
playing Braun and Pope together is a good idea because at least one of the two will stretch the opposing defense asking Braun to replace Pope is not sustainable. teams will just live with Bruan beating them from 3 and use his defender as a free safety to stop Joker and Murray. I think you can play him with Porter. Braun did shoot 38% last year. He's not the confident shooter KCP is but we have to hope he can improve off his improvement last year. I'm also not arguing for getting rid of KCP. I think I'm more arguing for Braun to get an increase in minutes AND that we should stagger our starters reserves more. Play less all starting 5 lineups for as long each game. If we kept KCP. Something like backup PG/Braun/KCP/Vlatko/Jokic Murray/Braun/Watson/MPJ/AG Have Braun play in both groups to play more minutes then we can keep other guys fresh. Hopefully Vlatko can play some this coming season and give AG a break. Strawther can get in their as well. |
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Post by wizardofcozz on May 22, 2024 18:16:15 GMT -5
It's worth noting that KCP shot 35% or worse from 3 in 5 of his first 6 seasons in the NBA. He didn't become the sniper he is now until midway through his career. Braun continually improving each year gets us a cheaper contract we can control going forward OR a great trade asset. I'd like to see him up to 24-26 mpg next year. |
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Post by inyourmind on May 22, 2024 22:09:58 GMT -5
I'm fine with moving on from MPJ. Fine with any move at this point. Nuggets are in a tough spot.
MPJ's shooting at his size is a huge asset tho. Even when he dissappears. He makes the starting lineup alot bigger as well even if the other things he brings are also inconsistent.
Not the same because Murray's obviously on another level but I do think it's similar in the sense in giving you a higher ceiling/lower floor. MPJ gives the team a higher ceiling but we've seen the floor when he's losing his minutes. Can see the logic behind wanting more consistency/depth at this point.
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Post by nuggetshipster on May 23, 2024 16:10:07 GMT -5
to be clear, I prefer CG as the third string PG. neither is fit for purpose and we need to find an upgrade. One thing is sure, nobody is talking about Pickett |
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Post by wicked3line on May 24, 2024 7:33:37 GMT -5
Watched the end of year press conference and it appears KSE will not be approving any MPJ trade regardless of what Booth may want. Because of that, they seem to continually drop hints about KCP leaving via free agency as they mention CB possibly moving into the starting lineup. It was always going to be one of MPJ or KCP that would likely not be on the roster next season and looks like they are taking the easy path of letting KCP walk if the contract price is too steep.
Basically, any trades may be limited to seeing what they can get for Zeke.
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Post by BBBbbb on May 24, 2024 7:40:40 GMT -5
Basically, any trades may be limited to seeing what they can get for have to package with Zeke. There, I fixed it for you. Not sure we can get anything meaningful for Zeke, apart from him being a salary filler. |
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