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Post by JB on Jun 3, 2024 21:40:16 GMT -5
PJ was a genuine two-way menace before he tore his ACL. I genuinely feel bad for him and hope he gets a second act like Dante Exum.
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Post by famicommander on Jun 3, 2024 21:48:26 GMT -5
PJ was a genuine two-way menace before he tore his ACL. I genuinely feel bad for him and hope he gets a second act like Dante Exum. He's a career 40/31/67 shooter with a negative VORP, OBPM, and DBPM. He has negative career total offensive win shares after six seasons.
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Post by wicked3line on Jun 3, 2024 21:49:44 GMT -5
PJ was a genuine two-way menace before he tore his ACL. I genuinely feel bad for him and hope he gets a second act like Dante Exum. If by two-way you meaning bricking shots and excessive turnovers, then yes he was a menace!
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Post by JB on Jun 3, 2024 21:54:30 GMT -5
the one season he played over 1000 minutes, he was a +10 Plus/Minus per 100 possessions and +7.6 Plus/Minus net per 100 possessions
his defense was so elite he was having Caruso or OG level impact on the court.
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Post by JB on Jun 3, 2024 22:33:18 GMT -5
I guess no "I'm home" press conference in Washington after all.
Minny is paying Timmy a shitton of money, I'm very interested to see how he negatives around the the second-apron iceberg the Tpups heading towards
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Post by GBG on Jun 3, 2024 23:39:38 GMT -5
PJ and Garris, come on back, you are the next contestants in the second apron Price is Right!
Seriously, those two combined would help offset the loss of KCP. Help, but not completely offset the loss.
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Post by Tymes Rhymes on Jun 4, 2024 9:29:19 GMT -5
PJ would be an interesting get. You rarely hear about athletes that think of the city of Denver as anything other than "Hick town USA" so the fact that we've had a few athletes in the last few years be complimentary of Denver, is quite astonishing.
Heck it's was nice to see Darrell Arthur still working with the guys as recently as this last season. He was very complementary of Denver during his playing years here. Fans will remember how you treat the city. A lesson Melo should have learned a long time ago.
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Post by scooter on Jun 4, 2024 10:43:27 GMT -5
Not at all high on Hayward. Getting him smacks of dumpster diving due to financial constraints with second apron. If KCP walks, we are NOT in second apron, and can do better than Hayward who at 35, could be running on empty. Or at least running on fumes. Gary Harris might be a better player and is 5 years younger than Hayward. Both are big injury risks. The TMLE market doesn’t seem significantly different than the vet min market. They are both more or less dumpster diving and of course teams occasionally get something good from dumpster diving. I think Reggie Jackson was the only player signed using the TMLE last summer. A few other guys were signed for similar money in other ways — for example, the TWolves had the full MLE and split it up between Troy Brown and Shake Milton, who they traded at the deadline to the Pistons for Monte Morris, who was basically an insurance policy and didn’t play that much. Getting out of the second apron has some benefits, but the TMLE is a pretty small benefit as it’s only a little more than the vet min and guys in position to take those deals are usually signing for some other reason — they are older guys who have already made very good money and its an attractive team/place for other reasons, or they are younger guys looking for a good role to improve their earning potential the following season, or some combination of both (DJ and Uncle Jeff apparently helped recruit Bruce Brown to Denver). I’m not convinced that the Nuggets “can do better” in free agency just by getting out of the 2nd apron. I suppose it helps a little, but not remotely to the extent of justifying losing KCP in free agency. Hayward has a full set of NBA skills. I haven’t seen him play for quite a while so I don’t know his current level of athleticism and health, but at least he can dribble, pass and shoot well at the NBA level, something about which there is currently little evidence when it comes to Watson, Strawther, Pickett, Tyson and guys who will be available to the Nuggets in the draft.
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Post by scooter on Jun 4, 2024 13:09:57 GMT -5
Yeah, screw it, let's just bring back Marcus Howard, Facundo Campazzo, Boogie Cousins, and Will Barton too. Is Raef LaFrentz busy? Seems kinda silly. 28 year old former NBA washout Dante Exum returned to the league after playing a couple of seasons overseas and played 20 minutes/game this season. Dozier is 27 and for his club team he just finished a season playing 33 Euroleague (best teams throughout Europe) games and 21 Adriatic league games. Unless we watched those games, I don’t think we can know whether he can be a decent NBA bench player at age 27.
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Post by famicommander on Jun 4, 2024 13:16:29 GMT -5
Yes, let's bet on a guy who wasn't good before he got hurt and ended up in Euroleague to come back to the NBA and contribute.
It's happened once before in the history of the universe, so it'll probably happen to Dozier too.
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Post by JB on Jun 4, 2024 13:43:59 GMT -5
there are plenty of other players not named Dante Exum that either washed out of the NBA or were never good enough to make it to begin with and had to travel overseas first to learn how to be a professional basketball player.
off the top: Torrey Craig. or Patrick Beverly. or PJ Tucker. or Gerald Green. or Hassan Whiteside.
scouting foreign leagues is just one of the ways the Nuggets need to thinking outside the box to acquire veteran talent. not hoping super-scrubs like Jay Huff or Andrew Funk will magically transform into NBA players. Tim was much better at doing that than his successor.
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Post by famicommander on Jun 4, 2024 14:31:44 GMT -5
You're hyperfocused on one scrub from years ago, man. Obviously they should be scouting Euroleague and the NBL and every other pro league but it doesn't mean PJ Dozier is going to mount a comeback. I mentioned his name as a freaking joke.
Markus Howard led the Euroleague in scoring and Campazzo was 1st Team All Euroleague and I don't see anybody clamoring for them to return. PJ is just a guy over there. Averages 9/3/3 on 49/29/73 splits and doesn't even start. Exum put up 13 points per game on 52/39/86 splits his last year in Europe.
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Post by JB on Jun 4, 2024 15:07:40 GMT -5
I have no illusions about PJ Dozier and his prospects of returning to Denver. my only pushback was the narrative that he was a terrible player pre-ACL injury. sometimes the stats don't tell the whole picture.
I was responding to "It's happened once before in the history of the universe", which is a clearly untrue statement.
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Post by famicommander on Jun 4, 2024 15:31:44 GMT -5
Yes, now comes the part of the program where we pretend we don't understand exaggeration for effect.
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Post by JB on Jun 4, 2024 15:49:40 GMT -5
we're all aware of your penchant for exaggeration.
the basis of the argument that Dante Exum's trajectory is some aberration is incorrect. if there's agreement there, there's nothing more to discuss.
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Post by GBG on Jun 4, 2024 17:07:22 GMT -5
Not at all high on Hayward. Getting him smacks of dumpster diving due to financial constraints with second apron. If KCP walks, we are NOT in second apron, and can do better than Hayward who at 35, could be running on empty. Or at least running on fumes. Gary Harris might be a better player and is 5 years younger than Hayward. Both are big injury risks. The TMLE market doesn’t seem significantly different than the vet min market. They are both more or less dumpster diving and of course teams occasionally get something good from dumpster diving. I think Reggie Jackson was the only player signed using the TMLE last summer. A few other guys were signed for similar money in other ways — for example, the TWolves had the full MLE and split it up between Troy Brown and Shake Milton, who they traded at the deadline to the Pistons for Monte Morris, who was basically an insurance policy and didn’t play that much. Getting out of the second apron has some benefits, but the TMLE is a pretty small benefit as it’s only a little more than the vet min and guys in position to take those deals are usually signing for some other reason — they are older guys who have already made very good money and its an attractive team/place for other reasons, or they are younger guys looking for a good role to improve their earning potential the following season, or some combination of both (DJ and Uncle Jeff apparently helped recruit Bruce Brown to Denver). I’m not convinced that the Nuggets “can do better” in free agency just by getting out of the 2nd apron. I suppose it helps a little, but not remotely to the extent of justifying losing KCP in free agency. Hayward has a full set of NBA skills. I haven’t seen him play for quite a while so I don’t know his current level of athleticism and health, but at least he can dribble, pass and shoot well at the NBA level, something about which there is currently little evidence when it comes to Watson, Strawther, Pickett, Tyson and guys who will be available to the Nuggets in the draft. I’m rather surprised you would lump Watson in the same category as Strawther, Pickett, and Tyson. Even you said to me he’s a “good” player, and we have no idea if Straw, Pickett, or Tyson will be able to crack NBA rotations during the lengths of their contracts, unlike PWat who already cracked the Nuggets rotation, at least in RS and in first round against Lakers. The fact that Malone panicked and removed Watson from rotation in Minny series doesn’t automatically put Watson back in the “unproven” category that the three older rookies were in. How soon we forget. Watson is 90% likely to play more minutes for Nuggets in 2024/25 than he did this season. Only injuries or a trade (packaging him with Zeke and a pick in a trade for a guy like Caruso which Jake Coyne did in one of his offseason mocks would be only reason to trade Watson. A “win now” move). It’s really shortsighted to devalue Watson, and while he’s an unproven SHOOTER from distance, he did show he can dribble and pass, something you oddly seem uncertain about. He also has the makings of a midrange game, and is already an elite defender. So your sudden denigration of Watson is a bit baffling.
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Post by scooter on Jun 4, 2024 22:01:26 GMT -5
GBG, you seem to be taking our board a bit seriously. I like Watson and think he has potential to improve from what he is right now. But Hayward, while past his prime, is a guy with enough skill to have been chosen for an all-star game, and his game has always been based on skill, not on 2nd coming of Vince Carter type athleticism. Watson is a long, long way from having that level of skill. I’m definitely rooting for his success, though.
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Post by JB on Jun 4, 2024 23:27:57 GMT -5
I would consider a bench scorer signing like Lonnie Walker IV & Gordon Hayward with perhaps a draft day Zeke+28 trade for a playable big man a slam dunk offseason, but I first would wait and see if a player like Kel'el Ware falls to our slot.
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Post by GBG on Jun 4, 2024 23:35:59 GMT -5
GBG, you seem to be taking our board a bit seriously. I like Watson and think he has potential to improve from what he is right now. But Hayward, while past his prime, is a guy with enough skill to have been chosen for an all-star game, and his game has always been based on skill, not on 2nd coming of Vince Carter type athleticism. Watson is a long, long way from having that level of skill. I’m definitely rooting for his success, though. I guess I shouldn’t take you either seriously or literally when you insert Watson into the same grouping of players as Strawther, Pickett, and Tyson. That’s what you wrote. And maybe it didn’t merit a response since it was complete nonsense. Watson has already proven he will be a rotation player in this league for years to come, based on elite defense alone. The three old rookies have proven nothing. Hayward is a shadow of his former AllStar self. Scoring 14.5 ppg this year for a bad team like Charlotte is about as impressive as when AAA did well for Orlando before we traded Fours for the soon-to-be-washed Afflalo. One of TC’s worst moves. Luckily, he bailed himself out by trading AAA for Barton and a pick that turns into Beasley. Hayward is maybe even more washed than AAA at the time, and a helluva lot more of an injury risk. If we can have an open roster spot for him and he takes the minimum, I could see us signing him. I fear Malone would play him way too much, though, similar to how he overplayed Barton all the way through his final year here. It’s an ugly prospect, but if Malone pulls that BS, Hayward prolly just sustains another injury anyway. Would much rather have a reunion with Gary Harris.
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Post by JB on Jun 4, 2024 23:50:10 GMT -5
Orlando Afflalo would be manna from heaven for the Nuggets right now.
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