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Post by GBG on Jun 3, 2024 14:41:57 GMT -5
Not at all high on Hayward. Getting him smacks of dumpster diving due to financial constraints with second apron. If KCP walks, we are NOT in second apron, and can do better than Hayward who at 35, could be running on empty. Or at least running on fumes. Gary Harris might be a better player and is 5 years younger than Hayward. Both are big injury risks.
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Post by famicommander on Jun 3, 2024 14:42:43 GMT -5
the only thing ludicrous is hanging on to Jalen Pickett, Hunter Tyson and Jay Huff over an undeniable upgrade like Gordon Hayward. put it like this, I'll trust Gordon Hayward in a reduced bench role to play 70% of the regular season + playoffs way before I trust any of the scrubs I just mentioned to play meaningful NBA minutes for the Denver Nuggets. Calvin already wasted a prime Jokic year and that is a fireable offense in my opinion. he can't waste two trying to do his best Tim Connelly impression. If Huff comes back at all it's on a two-way, he has nothing to do with Hayward in any instance. And I've been on record as wanting Pickett and Tyson traded as long as anyone. Hayward is just an insane suggestion as a solution to any of our problems. He hasn't been healthy in years and now he's turning 35.
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Post by JB on Jun 3, 2024 14:49:37 GMT -5
there's no disconnect then. cut one of those scrubs or trade them into space and sign Hayward. if he hits, you made a great signing and you added a vet ball handler and shooter to your anemic bench for the price of nothing. if he's washed, cut him and sign a buyout guy down the road.
again, the definition of low risk high reward. Hayward in a 20MPG bench role should mitigate some the injury concern.
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Post by wicked3line on Jun 3, 2024 15:28:47 GMT -5
the only thing ludicrous is hanging on to Jalen Pickett, Hunter Tyson and Jay Huff over an undeniable upgrade like Gordon Hayward. put it like this, I'll trust Gordon Hayward in a reduced bench role to play 70% of the regular season + playoffs way before I trust any of the scrubs I just mentioned to play meaningful NBA minutes for the Denver Nuggets. Calvin already wasted a prime Jokic year and that is a fireable offense in my opinion. he can't waste two trying to do his best Tim Connelly impression. If Huff comes back at all it's on a two-way, he has nothing to do with Hayward in any instance. And I've been on record as wanting Pickett and Tyson traded as long as anyone. Hayward is just an insane suggestion as a solution to any of our problems. He hasn't been healthy in years and now he's turning 35. First, not that it matters yet he's currently 34 and he doesn't turn 35 until next March but yes he's a tad outside of his prime. Second, nobody is saying KSE is wanting to get Hayward for a starting role at significant minutes but to say he can't contribute completely ignores what he did even last season with Charlotte. I get it, I'd love to get somebody younger with more growth potential but everybody needs a reality check on what being a tax payer team means. Minus a trade of MPJ, Nuggets don't have many options as either a 1st apron or 2nd apron squad. Call it dumpster diving or whatever you want but welcome to being a tax payer team as we aren't signing any Bruce Brown types with either the tax payer MLE or vet minimum.
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Post by jimijam28 on Jun 3, 2024 16:16:25 GMT -5
Get use too 1st/ 2nd round exits until jokic retires
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Post by famicommander on Jun 3, 2024 19:30:08 GMT -5
there's no disconnect then. cut one of those scrubs or trade them into space and sign Hayward. if he hits, you made a great signing and you added a vet ball handler and shooter to your anemic bench for the price of nothing. if he's washed, cut him and sign a buyout guy down the road. again, the definition of low risk high reward. Hayward in a 20MPG bench role should mitigate some the injury concern. 1. A guy who has been hurt for 6 out of 7 years and turns 35 next season is not low risk, it's ridiculously high risk regardless of the cost. Our front office has been extremely reluctant to move on from vets or injured players midseason. We saw it with Campazzo, we saw it with them riding Gillespie's injury year out, we saw it with them not moving on from Vlatko or DJ to get a playoff-useful body this year. 2. You can't cut Tyson or Pickett, you have to trade them. We can't have the dead cap for two seasons. Hayward is just going to get hurt again next year. Even if we clear Pickett, Tyson, Reggie, DJ, Zeke, and Holiday it would still be dumb to waste a roster spot on a walking injury who couldn't crack the playoff rotation in OKC this year. We need more help than that and if we sign Hayward he's just going to be next year's version of this season's Vlatko. Sitting the whole year out taking up a roster spot and cap space. Instead of being a solution to a problem, Hayward is just literally asking for new problems. Courting disaster.
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Post by wicked3line on Jun 3, 2024 20:51:07 GMT -5
there's no disconnect then. cut one of those scrubs or trade them into space and sign Hayward. if he hits, you made a great signing and you added a vet ball handler and shooter to your anemic bench for the price of nothing. if he's washed, cut him and sign a buyout guy down the road. again, the definition of low risk high reward. Hayward in a 20MPG bench role should mitigate some the injury concern. 1. A guy who has been hurt for 6 out of 7 years and turns 35 next season is not low risk, it's ridiculously high risk regardless of the cost. Our front office has been extremely reluctant to move on from vets or injured players midseason. We saw it with Campazzo, we saw it with them riding Gillespie's injury year out, we saw it with them not moving on from Vlatko or DJ to get a playoff-useful body this year. 2. You can't cut Tyson or Pickett, you have to trade them. We can't have the dead cap for two seasons. Hayward is just going to get hurt again next year. Even if we clear Pickett, Tyson, Reggie, DJ, Zeke, and Holiday it would still be dumb to waste a roster spot on a walking injury who couldn't crack the playoff rotation in OKC this year. We need more help than that and if we sign Hayward he's just going to be next year's version of this season's Vlatko. Sitting the whole year out taking up a roster spot and cap space. Instead of being a solution to a problem, Hayward is just literally asking for new problems. Courting disaster. We all get it, you don't want Hayward as a starter on the Nuggets making $30+ mil/year, especially since he can't seem to play more than 50-55 games playing 30+ mins/game. Literally nobody is arguing that. However, we are talking about him taking a vet min on a one year deal to play backup mins, which we have no proof his body can't hold up better to 20 mins/game. Additionally, if MPJ is off the table for trades and they can't find anything for Zeke, then we are talking 2-3 roster spots available and one is likely going to be a backup center on tax payer MLE. That leaves vet mins to add to the bench and I'd like to see your list of vets that provide much more on the wing?
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Post by AbdulJabber on Jun 3, 2024 20:56:32 GMT -5
The weird thing with Hayward is he missed about two months with the same injury Murray just played through in the playoffs. So not exactly a quick healer. Injuries are a huge part of the game though. You have to live with it and try to find ways to mitigate risk. The easiest way is load management. Keep Hayward below 20 minutes per game and he'd be alright.
I went through all the 2nd round teams from the allstar break to the start of the playoffs and of course the Nuggets were off the charts when it came to starter minutes. Even with Murray missing several games, our starters as a whole played over 300 minutes more in that span than other 2nd round teams. That needs to change imo.
At the top of the chart was Jokic with 940 minutes, 2nd only to Ant who played 945. I love Jokic's stamina, but come on.
The lower end for starters that weren't seriously injured was around 750. SGA was at 720. The average seemed to be around 800-850 or roughly 30 minutes per game.
This is far from an exact science. Many great players have played way more in the past and it's not just post allstar break that matters. It's the season as a whole and the offseason leading up to it. It's player conditioning. It's fluke injuries that happen regardless of load management. But I think it would be wise to track player minutes after the allstar break and try to keep them around that 30 minute per game average.
Back to Hayward, I have a feeling Malone would play him a lot, probably too much. But that might be a good thing if it cuts into the starters minutes. It would give us a decent offensive option, so there would be less need to have one of Jok/mur on the court at all times.
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Post by famicommander on Jun 3, 2024 21:05:52 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but this "he'll probably be fine if we play him less" stuff is absolutely insane. Players in their 30s age in dog years.
You're just asking us to throw away a roster spot for a streetclothes guy. Which we've already done at least the last three years in a row. Any notion that we'd just "try him out" and cut him if he gets hurt or is Reggie-washed is pure wishful thinking.
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Post by wicked3line on Jun 3, 2024 21:09:11 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but this "he'll probably be fine if we play him less" stuff is absolutely insane. Players in their 30s age in dog years. You're just asking us to throw away a roster spot for a streetclothes guy. Which we've already done at least the last three years in a row. Any notion that we'd just "try him out" and cut him if he gets hurt or is Reggie-washed is pure wishful thinking. Then using only the vet minimum, who do you want? No MPJ or Zeke trade allowed and tax payer MLE is going to a center. Can't just complain as you have to provide viable answers. Ready...set...go... 1: 2: 3:
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Post by JB on Jun 3, 2024 21:14:17 GMT -5
I don't think fami is truly appreciating the fact we're in a beggars choosers situation here.
any player that is 1. better than Gordon Hayward 2. is willing to sign for the vet min is going to sign with a glamour market.
if there's a better option available for the Nuggets, I'd like to hear some names.
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Post by famicommander on Jun 3, 2024 21:17:28 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but this "he'll probably be fine if we play him less" stuff is absolutely insane. Players in their 30s age in dog years. You're just asking us to throw away a roster spot for a streetclothes guy. Which we've already done at least the last three years in a row. Any notion that we'd just "try him out" and cut him if he gets hurt or is Reggie-washed is pure wishful thinking. Then using only the vet minimum, who do you want? No MPJ or Zeke trade allowed and tax payer MLE is going to a center. Can't just complain as you have to provide viable answers. Ready...set...go... 1: 2: 3: Any healthy body is better than a guy in streetclothes. That's my point. I'd rather have healthy Justin Holiday back than 4 weeks of healthy Hayward.
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Post by famicommander on Jun 3, 2024 21:19:29 GMT -5
This is like last year when half a dozen of you insisted the return of PJ Dozier would cure what ailed us. My god.
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Post by JB on Jun 3, 2024 21:27:31 GMT -5
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Post by wicked3line on Jun 3, 2024 21:29:55 GMT -5
This is like last year when half a dozen of you insisted the return of PJ Dozier would cure what ailed us. My god. Ha! That definitely wasn't me as even a healthy PJ is still a mediocre shooter, overrated defender, and turnover machine.
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Post by LotharBraunBrownBryant on Jun 3, 2024 21:30:55 GMT -5
Jamal also talked positively about PJ Dozier. So at the very least he would be a chemistry positive.
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Post by famicommander on Jun 3, 2024 21:31:55 GMT -5
Yeah, screw it, let's just bring back Marcus Howard, Facundo Campazzo, Boogie Cousins, and Will Barton too.
Is Raef LaFrentz busy?
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Post by wicked3line on Jun 3, 2024 21:35:03 GMT -5
Yeah, screw it, let's just bring back Marcus Howard, Facundo Campazzo, Boogie Cousins, and Will Barton too. Is Raef LaFrentz busy? Surprised you don't want Earl Boykins?
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Post by wicked3line on Jun 3, 2024 21:35:40 GMT -5
Jamal also talked positively about PJ Dozier. So at the very least he would be a chemistry positive. Now that IS dumpster diving!
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Post by famicommander on Jun 3, 2024 21:37:01 GMT -5
Yeah, screw it, let's just bring back Marcus Howard, Facundo Campazzo, Boogie Cousins, and Will Barton too. Is Raef LaFrentz busy? Surprised you don't want Earl Boykins? When I played high school football my team was having a dinner at a Country Buffet and Earl happened to be there with who I assume were his relatives. He saw us all in our jerseys and came over to say hello. Nice dude.
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