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Post by freakns on Oct 22, 2024 1:32:36 GMT -5
this is excellent deal.
AG gave us pretty big discount, and in return Nuggets offer him security so he doesn't have to think about money at all...
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Post by nuggetshipster on Oct 22, 2024 4:07:29 GMT -5
Lets gooo
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Post by GBG on Oct 22, 2024 11:31:31 GMT -5
In terms of actual cash savings, AG opting in will save ol' Stan about 60 million dollars in tax penalties. I'm sure he's ready to open mouth kiss Gordon. One thing that the AG deal does is enable Booth, if he so chooses, to buy out Pickett and/or Tyson and replace them with true veteran guards, which is our only remaining hole. The savings for the 2025/26 season allows us to bite the bullet on these NBA contracts for non-NBA players that Booth unnecessarily signed after the 2023 draft. His did really good work on the AG contract to offset his bad work a bit over a year ago. Though hindsight is 20/20, and maybe Pickett and Tyson had enough promise to give them standard NBA contracts at the time, but I am skeptical. |
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Post by LotharBraunBrownBryant on Oct 22, 2024 12:15:05 GMT -5
Booth has always been able to replace these minimum-value deals with other minimum deals. What the lower cost on AG's contract next year does is guarantees enough space to still use the TPMLE one more time.
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Post by scooter on Oct 22, 2024 13:18:28 GMT -5
In terms of actual cash savings, AG opting in will save ol' Stan about 60 million dollars in tax penalties. I'm sure he's ready to open mouth kiss Gordon. One thing that the AG deal does is enable Booth, if he so chooses, to buy out Pickett and/or Tyson and replace them with true veteran guards, which is our only remaining hole. The savings for the 2025/26 season allows us to bite the bullet on these NBA contracts for non-NBA players that Booth unnecessarily signed after the 2023 draft. His did really good work on the AG contract to offset his bad work a bit over a year ago. Though hindsight is 20/20, and maybe Pickett and Tyson had enough promise to give them standard NBA contracts at the time, but I am skeptical. 1) Waiving any current guys and signing new guys will cost a lot in lux tax payments in addition to the extra salary itself. I don’t know how much — as I’m not deep into the weeds on the CBA — but I believe that doing that means the team is carrying both the dead money and the living money on the cap, and despite staying out of the 2nd apron the team is still deep in the tax and every marginal dollar carries a large tax hit. So ownership has to be convinced that 14th guy X is worth X number of dollars. I know the league subsidizes the salaries for 1 year vet min contracts but I don’t know how that is treated for lux tax purposes so I don’t know how big these hits would be, but its far from peanuts. 2) I disagree on the common refrain that it’s obvious that Booth screwed up in signing the 2nd round picks to NBA contracts. As I’ve written before, almost every pick in the 31-40 range this year was signed to a guaranteed multi-year deal. Most of those guys won’t be good. It’s just what NBA teams are doing now in this CBA era — they’ve stretched the guaranteed contract part of the draft from picks 30 to 40 and some guys after that have gotten shorter guaranteed deals too. Its fine to complain that the FO chose the wrong guys with the 32nd and 37th picks, but signing them to NBA deals is just what teams are now doing. BTW, if Strawther picked at 29 winds up being a “good” rotation player, the summer of 2023 will have been very good and nothing at all like “bad work” regardless of what happens with Pickett and Tyson. |
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Post by famicommander on Oct 22, 2024 13:33:46 GMT -5
Just because other teams are doing it doesn't mean it wasn't a colossal mistake to give those two long term deals. It's braindead obvious neither of them can help us in any way.
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Post by GBG on Oct 22, 2024 14:13:05 GMT -5
One thing that the AG deal does is enable Booth, if he so chooses, to buy out Pickett and/or Tyson and replace them with true veteran guards, which is our only remaining hole. The savings for the 2025/26 season allows us to bite the bullet on these NBA contracts for non-NBA players that Booth unnecessarily signed after the 2023 draft. His did really good work on the AG contract to offset his bad work a bit over a year ago. Though hindsight is 20/20, and maybe Pickett and Tyson had enough promise to give them standard NBA contracts at the time, but I am skeptical. 1) Waiving any current guys and signing new guys will cost a lot in lux tax payments in addition to the extra salary itself. I don’t know how much — as I’m not deep into the weeds on the CBA — but I believe that doing that means the team is carrying both the dead money and the living money on the cap, and despite staying out of the 2nd apron the team is still deep in the tax and every marginal dollar carries a large tax hit. So ownership has to be convinced that 14th guy X is worth X number of dollars. I know the league subsidizes the salaries for 1 year vet min contracts but I don’t know how that is treated for lux tax purposes so I don’t know how big these hits would be, but its far from peanuts. 2) I disagree on the common refrain that it’s obvious that Booth screwed up in signing the 2nd round picks to NBA contracts. As I’ve written before, almost every pick in the 31-40 range this year was signed to a guaranteed multi-year deal. Most of those guys won’t be good. It’s just what NBA teams are doing now in this CBA era — they’ve stretched the guaranteed contract part of the draft from picks 30 to 40 and some guys after that have gotten shorter guaranteed deals too. Its fine to complain that the FO chose the wrong guys with the 32nd and 37th picks, but signing them to NBA deals is just what teams are now doing. BTW, if Strawther picked at 29 winds up being a “good” rotation player, the summer of 2023 will have been very good and nothing at all like “bad work” regardless of what happens with Pickett and Tyson. It was bad work to draft and sign both Pickett and Tyson. I could see maybe one of them getting a standard deal, but to sign two? We already had Strawther picked, a good pick. Why have three roster spots for a contender taken up by three new picks, two of whom were 5th year seniors with little upside? Bad work for a contender to cut its flexibility to obtain a needed vet down the stretch by doing so. |
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Post by famicommander on Oct 22, 2024 15:07:26 GMT -5
Not only that, but we freaking traded up to get both Tyson and Pickett. Those are the guys Booth targeted and locked in on.
And then we traded more draft picks to dump Reggie's expiring deal instead of those two chucklefucks.
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Post by scooter on Oct 22, 2024 15:09:51 GMT -5
They can swap out one of those guys — one way or another or another or another — if it’s needed this season. Last season, they did need one more playable guy but that’s really just because of Vlatko’s injury and Nnaji’s unanticipated awfulness. They were counting on one or both of those guys to replace Jeff Green’s modest contribution and that seemed like a reasonable expectation.
The team has 3 short term vets — Jordan, Saric, Westbrook. It’s trying to avoid having 5 roster spots each season being of the revolving door of one year cheap vet variety and that makes some sense.
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Post by famicommander on Oct 22, 2024 15:28:25 GMT -5
They can swap out one of those guys — one way or another or another or another — if it’s needed this season. Last season, they did need one more playable guy but that’s really just because of Vlatko’s injury and Nnaji’s unanticipated awfulness. They were counting on one or both of those guys to replace Jeff Green’s modest contribution and that seemed like a reasonable expectation. The team has 3 short term vets — Jordan, Saric, Westbrook. It’s trying to avoid having 5 roster spots each season being of the revolving door of one year cheap vet variety and that makes some sense. Last year they needed another guard. They didn't have one so Reggie and KCP and Braun ran themselves into the ground trying to compensate. This year we have even fewer guards. 82 games (including 26 starts, then every single playoff game added on top of them) from old man Reggie Jackson last year was absolutely an absurd thing to ask of him. 76 games from KCP was too many. CB was able to give us 82 as well, and he was young enough to do it, but he missed the whole preseason with an injury and had a very slow start to the year. And that was with Strawther and Holiday in reserve. This year Braun, Strawther, and Westbrook essentially have to cover every minute that Reggie, KCP, Strawther, Holiday, and Braun covered last year (just assuming Murray will have to miss some time, unfortunately). We don't have any small forwards that can swing to the 2, and damn sure not the 1. Watson, Tyson, and Cancar are not guards in any sense of the word. We need to anticipate these issues and do something about them now. Waiting until the trade deadline and hoping these guys can figure out how to play with our team in a few weeks didn't work out great for Reggie Jackson and Thomas Bryant and there's no reason to expect any different this year. Just pull off the bandaid and do it now. Bring back Holiday and bring in the best veteran point man who will answer our calls and be done with it. Put them on the end of the bench and hope you don't need them. |
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Post by GBG on Oct 22, 2024 15:46:47 GMT -5
They can swap out one of those guys — one way or another or another or another — if it’s needed this season. Last season, they did need one more playable guy but that’s really just because of Vlatko’s injury and Nnaji’s unanticipated awfulness. They were counting on one or both of those guys to replace Jeff Green’s modest contribution and that seemed like a reasonable expectation. The team has 3 short term vets — Jordan, Saric, Westbrook. It’s trying to avoid having 5 roster spots each season being of the revolving door of one year cheap vet variety and that makes some sense. Last year they needed another guard. They didn't have one so Reggie and KCP and Braun ran themselves into the ground trying to compensate. This year we have even fewer guards. 82 games (including 26 starts, then every single playoff game added on top of them) from old man Reggie Jackson last year was absolutely an absurd thing to ask of him. 76 games from KCP was too many. CB was able to give us 82 as well, and he was young enough to do it, but he missed the whole preseason with an injury and had a very slow start to the year. And that was with Strawther and Holiday in reserve. This year Braun, Strawther, and Westbrook essentially have to cover every minute that Reggie, KCP, Strawther, Holiday, and Braun covered last year (just assuming Murray will have to miss some time, unfortunately). We don't have any small forwards that can swing to the 2, and damn sure not the 1. Watson, Tyson, and Cancar are not guards in any sense of the word. We need to anticipate these issues and do something about them now. Waiting until the trade deadline and hoping these guys can figure out how to play with our team in a few weeks didn't work out great for Reggie Jackson and Thomas Bryant and there's no reason to expect any different this year. Just pull off the bandaid and do it now. Bring back Holiday and bring in the best veteran point man who will answer our calls and be done with it. Put them on the end of the bench and hope you don't need them. Obviously I agree with this. We should be proactive rather than reactive. It might make a difference between a top 4 seed and being a 5 or 6 seed, or worst case, in the play-in due to an epidemic of injuries. We aren’t ready to have a successful test of our depth, because we don’t have good depth. Jackson and Bryant are good examples, but there are others, such as Bryne Forbes who struggled with us in 2022 after a mid season pickup of the shooter. Acting now shows a seriousness of intent to cover all our bases for gaining a high seed and being a true playoff contender. |
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Post by somborshuffle on Oct 22, 2024 16:15:59 GMT -5
Markelle Fultz not being on an NBA roster is insane when unplayable guys like Pickett and Bronny are.
I know it's more complicated than that but Booth should make any move he has available to him to free up a roster spot for a guy like Fultz who is good enough to start a bunch of NBA games when Jamal inevitably gets injured.
The top 7-8 are good enough to win an NBA title if fully healthy and rested come playoff time. But the guard depth needs to improve in the regular season in order to ensure that scenario can occur.
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Post by rock on Oct 22, 2024 16:46:29 GMT -5
They can swap out one of those guys — one way or another or another or another — if it’s needed this season. Last season, they did need one more playable guy but that’s really just because of Vlatko’s injury and Nnaji’s unanticipated awfulness. They were counting on one or both of those guys to replace Jeff Green’s modest contribution and that seemed like a reasonable expectation. The team has 3 short term vets — Jordan, Saric, Westbrook. It’s trying to avoid having 5 roster spots each season being of the revolving door of one year cheap vet variety and that makes some sense. Last year they needed another guard. They didn't have one so Reggie and KCP and Braun ran themselves into the ground trying to compensate. This year we have even fewer guards. 82 games (including 26 starts, then every single playoff game added on top of them) from old man Reggie Jackson last year was absolutely an absurd thing to ask of him. 76 games from KCP was too many. CB was able to give us 82 as well, and he was young enough to do it, but he missed the whole preseason with an injury and had a very slow start to the year. And that was with Strawther and Holiday in reserve. This year Braun, Strawther, and Westbrook essentially have to cover every minute that Reggie, KCP, Strawther, Holiday, and Braun covered last year (just assuming Murray will have to miss some time, unfortunately). We don't have any small forwards that can swing to the 2, and damn sure not the 1. Watson, Tyson, and Cancar are not guards in any sense of the word. We need to anticipate these issues and do something about them now. Waiting until the trade deadline and hoping these guys can figure out how to play with our team in a few weeks didn't work out great for Reggie Jackson and Thomas Bryant and there's no reason to expect any different this year. Just pull off the bandaid and do it now. Bring back Holiday and bring in the best veteran point man who will answer our calls and be done with it. Put them on the end of the bench and hope you don't need them. When did 76 games become “too many” for an nba player? I swear growing up I never heard of nba players load managing. And todays nba players have MUCH better transportation, nutrition, health and resources. |
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Post by famicommander on Oct 22, 2024 16:50:13 GMT -5
Last year they needed another guard. They didn't have one so Reggie and KCP and Braun ran themselves into the ground trying to compensate. This year we have even fewer guards. 82 games (including 26 starts, then every single playoff game added on top of them) from old man Reggie Jackson last year was absolutely an absurd thing to ask of him. 76 games from KCP was too many. CB was able to give us 82 as well, and he was young enough to do it, but he missed the whole preseason with an injury and had a very slow start to the year. And that was with Strawther and Holiday in reserve. This year Braun, Strawther, and Westbrook essentially have to cover every minute that Reggie, KCP, Strawther, Holiday, and Braun covered last year (just assuming Murray will have to miss some time, unfortunately). We don't have any small forwards that can swing to the 2, and damn sure not the 1. Watson, Tyson, and Cancar are not guards in any sense of the word. We need to anticipate these issues and do something about them now. Waiting until the trade deadline and hoping these guys can figure out how to play with our team in a few weeks didn't work out great for Reggie Jackson and Thomas Bryant and there's no reason to expect any different this year. Just pull off the bandaid and do it now. Bring back Holiday and bring in the best veteran point man who will answer our calls and be done with it. Put them on the end of the bench and hope you don't need them. When did 76 games become “too many” for an nba player? I swear growing up I never heard of nba players load managing. And todays nba players have MUCH better transportation, nutrition, health and resources. 76 is not too much in a vacuum. It was too much for KCP at the intensity we played last year. He was an older player who played through injuries, had to play out of position at times due to Murray's injuries, and we had to scrap until the last game of the year for seeding. 76 games in a seeding race for an injured 11 year vet is not the same as 76 games for a 26 year old when his team finished 7 games up on the 2nd place team. Imagine if Reggie and KCP got a nice 8 day break before that Lakers series instead of both of them limping into it and hurting themselves more during it. |
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Post by rock on Oct 22, 2024 18:01:05 GMT -5
When did 76 games become “too many” for an nba player? I swear growing up I never heard of nba players load managing. And todays nba players have MUCH better transportation, nutrition, health and resources. 76 is not too much in a vacuum. It was too much for KCP at the intensity we played last year. He was an older player who played through injuries, had to play out of position at times due to Murray's injuries, and we had to scrap until the last game of the year for seeding. 76 games in a seeding race for an injured 11 year vet is not the same as 76 games for a 26 year old when his team finished 7 games up on the 2nd place team. Imagine if Reggie and KCP got a nice 8 day break before that Lakers series instead of both of them limping into it and hurting themselves more during it. I get it but I don’t remember the 90s Knicks, pacers, heat, bulls, hornets, etc all worrying about 76 games. They all had 30 year old vets. |
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Post by famicommander on Oct 22, 2024 18:16:36 GMT -5
76 is not too much in a vacuum. It was too much for KCP at the intensity we played last year. He was an older player who played through injuries, had to play out of position at times due to Murray's injuries, and we had to scrap until the last game of the year for seeding. 76 games in a seeding race for an injured 11 year vet is not the same as 76 games for a 26 year old when his team finished 7 games up on the 2nd place team. Imagine if Reggie and KCP got a nice 8 day break before that Lakers series instead of both of them limping into it and hurting themselves more during it. I get it but I don’t remember the 90s Knicks, pacers, heat, bulls, hornets, etc all worrying about 76 games. They all had 30 year old vets. Guys in MLB used to pitch complete games all the time too. Times change. Players are getting bigger, stronger, and faster and playing faster versions of our games and it's putting more strain on their bodies. The torn UCL epidemic in baseball can pretty much be matched up to the rise in average pitch velocity. |
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Post by inyourmind on Oct 23, 2024 0:15:44 GMT -5
When did 76 games become “too many” for an nba player? I swear growing up I never heard of nba players load managing. And todays nba players have MUCH better transportation, nutrition, health and resources. 76 is not too much in a vacuum. It was too much for KCP at the intensity we played last year. He was an older player who played through injuries, had to play out of position at times due to Murray's injuries, and we had to scrap until the last game of the year for seeding. 76 games in a seeding race for an injured 11 year vet is not the same as 76 games for a 26 year old when his team finished 7 games up on the 2nd place team. Imagine if Reggie and KCP got a nice 8 day break before that Lakers series instead of both of them limping into it and hurting themselves more during it. KCP played 76 games the year we won a championship. Basketball reference has 24% of his minutes at PG that season compared to 6% last year(I don't think it matters much when your running "point" with Jokic on the floor). We've had trash outside of Murray for the most part the past 2 seasons in terms of PG's IMO. Nuggets mailed it in for alot of last year as well compared to the championship year. The entire narrative of the season was the Nuggets were coasting and could flip a switch up until that choke job vs the Spurs. IMO the whole tired/fatigue thing is pretty overblown for the Nuggets last year. It's a massive factor for any team that's trying to repeat obviously but the Nuggets coasted pretty hard during the regular season. In the end it just turned out that the flaws this team had were legitimate and not from coasting. An 8 day break for KCP/Reggie weren't changing anything. Murray being 100% healthy would be the only difference maker and even with how bad he was he still had a good game 7 outside of that one stretch where all 5 guys fell apart. Nuggets won 3 straight vs Minny only to get blown out in game 6 and than have the biggest game 7 choke job ever. I think you hit a point where excuses no longer exist lol |
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Post by scooter on Oct 23, 2024 1:01:55 GMT -5
Acting now shows a seriousness of intent to cover all our bases for gaining a high seed and being a true playoff contender. For good reason, fans don’t care about the cost to waive Pickett and sign a guy like Fultz or Walker. I don’t know what it would amount to, but it could be something like $6 mil to theoretically upgrade the 15th guy on the roster. I can see why management would be cool to that idea and would prefer to wait until a trade became available. It sounds like Malone is experimenting with having various players bring the ball upcourt. For those who are getting panicky about the team’s PG depth, it is worth remembering that Jokic was 2nd in the league in assists last season. Most of the time, the team just needs to get Jokic the ball and the offense will work. Obviously, they do need to defend perimeter players, but there is no rule that Watson or Strawther or Braun cannot be matched up defensively against PGs or SGs or whomever. |
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Post by GBG on Oct 23, 2024 8:29:29 GMT -5
Acting now shows a seriousness of intent to cover all our bases for gaining a high seed and being a true playoff contender. For good reason, fans don’t care about the cost to waive Pickett and sign a guy like Fultz or Walker. I don’t know what it would amount to, but it could be something like $6 mil to theoretically upgrade the 15th guy on the roster. I can see why management would be cool to that idea and would prefer to wait until a trade became available. It sounds like Malone is experimenting with having various players bring the ball upcourt. For those who are getting panicky about the team’s PG depth, it is worth remembering that Jokic was 2nd in the league in assists last season. Most of the time, the team just needs to get Jokic the ball and the offense will work. Obviously, they do need to defend perimeter players, but there is no rule that Watson or Strawther or Braun cannot be matched up defensively against PGs or SGs or whomever. They wouldn’t be upgrading to the “15th guy on the roster”. They would be dropping the 15th guy on the roster (say Pickett) to provide a roster space for signing someone like Fultz, who immediately becomes the 10th guy on the roster. That’s why it’s worth the several millions in tax penalties, in addition to extra minimum salary and dead cap hit, to do it. Malone has said he has only 9 real rotation guys on the roster, and Fultz would vault to #10, ahead of Cancar, Zeke, DJ, etc. It is true we are woefully short on guard depth and have two players who are very young or very old, one of whom has never played many games healthy in the NBA (Straw), and the other whose wheels could fall off at any time (Russ). When the top PG is someone like Murray who also is a major risk to miss 20+ games during the season, you absolutely need another ball handling combo or point guard to spell them. Or, during the regular season, even have in the rotation if Malone wants to go with 10 guys in rotation at various times. Can’t do that with Pickett. Can do that with someone like Fultz. Better depth, better health, and better rest would not only likely result in a better seed, but better health for the playoffs. Fultz is even a guy you could play in the playoffs if the need arises. Pickett is not. Kroenkes shouldn’t be cheap and try to dodge tax penalties when they have a team in need of depth and reinforcements to improve championship chances ever so slightly. Your argument for Stan and Josh to save money is an argument to stay timid when the option to improve is there. Yes, it’s not my money, but $6 million penalty (or whatever it is) is pocket change to decabillionaires. |
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Post by Ring on Oct 23, 2024 9:57:22 GMT -5
76 is not too much in a vacuum. It was too much for KCP at the intensity we played last year. He was an older player who played through injuries, had to play out of position at times due to Murray's injuries, and we had to scrap until the last game of the year for seeding. 76 games in a seeding race for an injured 11 year vet is not the same as 76 games for a 26 year old when his team finished 7 games up on the 2nd place team. Imagine if Reggie and KCP got a nice 8 day break before that Lakers series instead of both of them limping into it and hurting themselves more during it. I get it but I don’t remember the 90s Knicks, pacers, heat, bulls, hornets, etc all worrying about 76 games. They all had 30 year old vets. In the 90s most of the perimeter players just guarded 1 on 1 in very slow, half court games. Now the game is faster paced and guys are having to chase guards on the perimeter through a billion screens every night. Wears you down. |
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