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Post by passtheballquick on Oct 12, 2024 19:41:30 GMT -5
Barton and Bogdan were/are very similar players who could do a little bit of everything at wing but nothing at an elite level. I admit Barton wasn’t as good in his prime as Bogdan, but Bogdan is now 32 years-old. MPJ is 26. PTBQ is delusional to think he’s better than MPJ. Can’t teach length. I am delusional but every single contender wants Bogdan and nobody wants mpj. Nobody can't teach length but at least we can learn that, that type of soft length carrying max contract spends more time on the bench than in the game when it matters. We learned that even though Jokic and Murray score 70 points in a 90 points game that type of length is useless We need somebody, when Jokic is guarded by 2 7 footers, when Murray's guarded by half a foot taller guy, to take a ball a get you a bucket. Mpj is not that guy, he's never been, and he'll never be that guy |
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Post by inyourmind on Oct 13, 2024 0:17:06 GMT -5
MPJ 23-24 48/40/84 Career 49/41/80 Bogdan 23-24 43/37.4/92 Career 44/38/84 So no Bogdan is not a better "shooter" then MPJ. He may be a better creator a secondary ball handler we need but let's stick with facts. Losing MPJ shooting would be a major blow to a team that already doesn't have enough shooting. Now I might be able to be convinced of MPJ for Bogi and DeAndre Hunter. Not Bogi and Capella. The only skill that mpj has is "catch and shoot" and that's the only one. Last season Bogdanovic was in the top 5 catch and shoot. When someone beats you in the only category that you're good at, besides that you play with Jokic your entire career, nothing else needs to be said except that one occupies max money and the other one less than half of it I don't care about the comparisons between the players but being able to catch and shoot is pretty valuable. He creates a ton of space which is really important in this offense. His ability to shoot at his height means defenders can't cheat off him even a little bit. He's hard to contest even if your up close. He's not a max player. Giving him the max was a mistake. He's took steps defensively and puts in effort on the glass tho. Even when he's bricking shots he's still keeping his defender honest which is big for Jokic. I was fine with moving MPJ before everything shook out but now with the lack of shooting I think he has a chance to have a really big impact this year. He played a decent amount of minutes at the 4 last year as well and you'll need that versatility with lineups. If you move MPJ you can't afford to get worse at shooting no matter how much you improve in other areas. Teams will just cheat and collapse in on Jokic. |
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Post by scooter on Oct 13, 2024 9:10:05 GMT -5
I’m not sure about the point of one to one comparisons of MPJ and Bogdanovic since they can’t be traded straight up and we don’t know what other more complicated deal might be out there and what that might look like.
If we do compare them just for the sake of it, I do think it’s important not to have too much recency bias. I honestly have not seen that much of Bogdan in the NBA since he’s been playing on the Hawks, but my 10,000 view is that in the NBA he’s a good but somewhat injury prone player who in the regular season isn’t as good (but with a different skill set) than MPJ and doesn’t have an extensive playoff record but may be better for the playoffs if/when he’s healthy. Clearly, he has great personal and on court chemistry with Jokic and it would be extremely interesting to see how that looks in pressure situations alongside our core guys sans MPJ.
If it becomes possible to put together some kind of complicated (maybe multi-team) deal involving these guys, its worth evaluating, but there would be other players involved and who knows how that all looks from a talent and winning perspective.
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Post by passtheballquick on Oct 14, 2024 22:05:54 GMT -5
The only skill that mpj has is "catch and shoot" and that's the only one. Last season Bogdanovic was in the top 5 catch and shoot. When someone beats you in the only category that you're good at, besides that you play with Jokic your entire career, nothing else needs to be said except that one occupies max money and the other one less than half of it I don't care about the comparisons between the players but being able to catch and shoot is pretty valuable. He creates a ton of space which is really important in this offense. His ability to shoot at his height means defenders can't cheat off him even a little bit. He's hard to contest even if your up close. He's not a max player. Giving him the max was a mistake. He's took steps defensively and puts in effort on the glass tho. Even when he's bricking shots he's still keeping his defender honest which is big for Jokic. I was fine with moving MPJ before everything shook out but now with the lack of shooting I think he has a chance to have a really big impact this year. He played a decent amount of minutes at the 4 last year as well and you'll need that versatility with lineups. If you move MPJ you can't afford to get worse at shooting no matter how much you improve in other areas. Teams will just cheat and collapse in on Jokic. Catch and shoot is a valuable skill and that's why I said Bogdanovic was in top 5 in that category last year. The other categories are not even comparable |
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Post by passtheballquick on Oct 14, 2024 22:20:04 GMT -5
I’m not sure about the point of one to one comparisons of MPJ and Bogdanovic since they can’t be traded straight up and we don’t know what other more complicated deal might be out there and what that might look like. If we do compare them just for the sake of it, I do think it’s important not to have too much recency bias. I honestly have not seen that much of Bogdan in the NBA since he’s been playing on the Hawks, but my 10,000 view is that in the NBA he’s a good but somewhat injury prone player who in the regular season isn’t as good (but with a different skill set) than MPJ and doesn’t have an extensive playoff record but may be better for the playoffs if/when he’s healthy. Clearly, he has great personal and on court chemistry with Jokic and it would be extremely interesting to see how that looks in pressure situations alongside our core guys sans MPJ. If it becomes possible to put together some kind of complicated (maybe multi-team) deal involving these guys, its worth evaluating, but there would be other players involved and who knows how that all looks from a talent and winning perspective. To say Bogdanovic is an injury prone player is possible only if you decided not to spend a single minute researching and comparing him to our players. Bogdanovic played 449 games in his 7 nba seasons. Only Jokic out of our top 4 guys played more games than him in the last 7 seasons. Maybe we should call our team then: Jokic and injury prone players Before Olympics there was some rumors coming from the Hawks side that they were interested in trading Bogdanovic and Hunter for MPJ. I think we missed that opportunity now |
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Post by scooter on Oct 15, 2024 11:36:31 GMT -5
To say Bogdanovic is an injury prone player is possible only if you decided not to spend a single minute researching and comparing him to our players. Bogdanovic played 449 games in his 7 nba seasons. Only Jokic out of our top 4 guys played more games than him in the last 7 seasons. Maybe we should call our team then: Jokic and injury prone players That’s a fair point about Bogdanovic although its inaccurate in that Gordon played 464 regular season games during those 7 years, had also played 78 and 80 games in the 2 seasons before that, and has also played a lot more playoff games than Bogdan. Gordon hasn’t been an “injury prone player.” And it is worth noting when one considers Bogdan’s decent but not great regular season availability that 1) he hasn’t played many playoff games (that take a big toll), and 2) he’s operated as a 6th man for the majority of his NBA games so the minutes are 6th man rather than starter minutes. I guess all of that is why I see his NBA availability as so-so rather than good. If one is being objective it seems like Porter is the better regular season player than Bogdan. Going forward its anyone’s guess which one would be a better playoff performer for the Nuggets. Recency bias has Nuggets’ fans less high on Porter because of a poor TWolves series, and higher on Bogdan because we saw him play great (with Jokic) for a handful of games in the Olympics. But — the NBA is not FIBA basketball and while the differences (smaller court, shorter three point line, shorter games, not that many games) seem small, they can add up to make a big difference, so I think NBA talent people are quite leery about using FIBA tournaments to evaluate players. |
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Post by famicommander on Oct 15, 2024 21:12:52 GMT -5
Didn't see this mentioned anywhere and it's not surprising at all, but the Nugs picked up their options on Strawther, Braun, and Watson
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Post by passtheballquick on Oct 17, 2024 20:55:41 GMT -5
To say Bogdanovic is an injury prone player is possible only if you decided not to spend a single minute researching and comparing him to our players. Bogdanovic played 449 games in his 7 nba seasons. Only Jokic out of our top 4 guys played more games than him in the last 7 seasons. Maybe we should call our team then: Jokic and injury prone players That’s a fair point about Bogdanovic although its inaccurate in that Gordon played 464 regular season games during those 7 years, had also played 78 and 80 games in the 2 seasons before that, and has also played a lot more playoff games than Bogdan. Gordon hasn’t been an “injury prone player.” And it is worth noting when one considers Bogdan’s decent but not great regular season availability that 1) he hasn’t played many playoff games (that take a big toll), and 2) he’s operated as a 6th man for the majority of his NBA games so the minutes are 6th man rather than starter minutes. I guess all of that is why I see his NBA availability as so-so rather than good. If one is being objective it seems like Porter is the better regular season player than Bogdan. Going forward its anyone’s guess which one would be a better playoff performer for the Nuggets. Recency bias has Nuggets’ fans less high on Porter because of a poor TWolves series, and higher on Bogdan because we saw him play great (with Jokic) for a handful of games in the Olympics. But — the NBA is not FIBA basketball and while the differences (smaller court, shorter three point line, shorter games, not that many games) seem small, they can add up to make a big difference, so I think NBA talent people are quite leery about using FIBA tournaments to evaluate players. First Gordon played 463 games in those 7 seasons (my bad, I counted 20/21 as 2 seasons. That's only 2 games more per season than Bogdan which doesn't make one injury prone and not the other one so the statement still stays. Bogdan is the second best Hawk and there is no doubt about it. Every single Hawk fan including their media acknowledges that. The reason why Bogdan is playing with second unit is very clear. They have nobody who can score or handle the ball outside of Trae. That forces Bogdan to play outside of his position. You're delusional if you think that MPJ would play the same without Jokic and that Bogdan wouldn't play much better with Jokic. And again you can have 2 Bogdanovic type of players for the price of mpj. |
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Post by wicked3line on Oct 18, 2024 8:33:43 GMT -5
Next few days will be interesting to watch involving prospect for AG extension. There has been almost zero news on it for a couple weeks but that seems to match KSE operating practice for extensions. Even if there is no extension would still bet on AG returning to Denver in free agency but just at a higher annual salary.
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Post by wizardofcozz on Oct 18, 2024 9:17:14 GMT -5
Next few days will be interesting to watch involving prospect for AG extension. There has been almost zero news on it for a couple weeks but that seems to match KSE operating practice for extensions. Even if there is no extension would still bet on AG returning to Denver in free agency but just at a higher annual salary. Blackburn said that because AG has a player option that they can extend him anytime between now and July, so beginning of season isn't a hard deadline like first thought. |
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Post by famicommander on Oct 18, 2024 14:07:56 GMT -5
Windhorst reported today that the Nuggets are trying to sign Gordon to an extension for less than the maximum and that discussions are ongoing.
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Post by wizardofcozz on Oct 18, 2024 14:20:22 GMT -5
Windhorst reported today that the Nuggets are trying to sign Gordon to an extension for less than the maximum and that discussions are ongoing. I don't see a world where it's even close to feasible to pay him the max. He's not a 1 or 2 option on a team. And his max would be above MPJ's so would make it even worse. |
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Post by rock on Oct 18, 2024 14:54:31 GMT -5
Windhorst reported today that the Nuggets are trying to sign Gordon to an extension for less than the maximum and that discussions are ongoing. I don't see a world where it's even close to feasible to pay him the max. He's not a 1 or 2 option on a team. And his max would be above MPJ's so would make it even worse. These negotiations are insane. AG for the max? What? |
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Post by wicked3line on Oct 18, 2024 22:22:10 GMT -5
I don't see a world where it's even close to feasible to pay him the max. He's not a 1 or 2 option on a team. And his max would be above MPJ's so would make it even worse. These negotiations are insane. AG for the max? What? You guys are completely misinterpreting what he meant by the term "max". For one AG isn't even eligible for a "max" contract via an extension...only a 140% increase over this year. That is going from $22.8 mil this year to roughly a little under $32 mil but that is nowhere near a true "max" for next year of $53 mil. Now if he truly wants/believes he is worth $53 mil next year then he'd have to wait until free agency but there is no way KSE can do that now via an extension (plus the fact nobody is giving him $53 mil next year). Instead this appears to be KSE unwilling to give the full 140% extension amount. This makes me think KSE believes the market for AG next summer might be way more limited than AG believes he is worth. I'd still wager that AG will ultimately resign with the Nuggets. |
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Post by famicommander on Oct 18, 2024 22:51:14 GMT -5
The "max" extension that Gordon can be offered by us is 37.5 million over 4 years. That is what we are trying to negotiate down.
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Post by wicked3line on Oct 18, 2024 23:02:16 GMT -5
The "max" extension that Gordon can be offered by us is 37.5 million over 4 years. That is what we are trying to negotiate down. Not exactly. It averages out to a value of ~$36-37 mil per year for a 4 year total around $145 mil but his starting salary next year would be closer to $32 mil. |
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Post by duh88 on Oct 19, 2024 20:46:04 GMT -5
What's the deadline to resign AG?
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Post by famicommander on Oct 21, 2024 14:17:32 GMT -5
Open scrimmage at the end of practice today.
Lineups were
Westbrook, Strawther, Watson, Saric, and Jokic
vs
Murray, Braun, Porter, Cancar, and Jordan
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Post by GBG on Oct 21, 2024 14:20:08 GMT -5
Open scrimmage at the end of practice today. Lineups were Westbrook, Strawther, Watson, Saric, and Jokic vs Murray, Braun, Porter, Cancar, and Jordan Something wrong with AG? Surprised he isn’t in it. Maybe he and his agent are busy looking at fine print of extension contract? 🤔 |
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Post by famicommander on Oct 21, 2024 14:26:09 GMT -5
Open scrimmage at the end of practice today. Lineups were Westbrook, Strawther, Watson, Saric, and Jokic vs Murray, Braun, Porter, Cancar, and Jordan Something wrong with AG? Surprised he isn’t in it. Maybe he and his agent are busy looking at fine print of extension contract? 🤔 Vinny and Blackburn both tweeted out the lineups but neither made note of AG's absence. Not sure if he was at practice and then held out of the scrimmage for team balance purposes or if he wasn't there at all. EDIT: Winge just tweeted out a video with AG, Trey, and Nnaji on the court later in the same scrimmage so they're there too, just didn't start. Looks like AG and Zeke were the bench bigs for their respective squads. |
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