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Post by LotharBraunBrownBryant on Aug 6, 2024 18:34:16 GMT -5
Jokic isn't moving. Doesn't make sense to move AG -- he's on a relative bargain contract and a great fit next to Jokic. The discussion here is about improving the core, not like "who can we trade DAJ for" -- so what's the realistic Jamal or MPJ trade? A couple years ago I proposed MPJ for OG + Boucher, and I think the Nuggets would have won the championship and maybe be in a better spot this year with that particular trade. But what "all star" level player is another team realistically going to trade for either Jamal or MPJ, given the injury history and contract situations? We could go get Jordan Poole (LOL), or maybe swap for the oft-injured Tyler Herro if the Heat want to swap injured guards, but who else who is actually good enough to be the #2 or #3 on a championship team?
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Post by GBG on Aug 6, 2024 19:00:42 GMT -5
I think people are just over-reacting way too much to the KCP loss. Maybe I'll look like a fool but I really don't think we are going to see much drop off with Christian Braun, if any. The shooting might be worse but if he shoots 38% from 3, does it really matter considering what he brings on the glass, cutting and energy wise? Not in my opinion. He's a much better defender for certain arch-types too. The bench is going to be better. Westbrook is better than Reggie. Watson is another year into his career. Saric is better than Zeke/DJ/whatever we had last year. I really think we're going to be better this year. My one and only concern is Murray, for obvious reasons. It's not the difference between Braun and KCP that has us concerned. It's the difference between Braun/Holiday/Strawther being the depth last year versus literally just Strawther this year. The trouble is that KCP’s 2,400 minutes played last season has to be replaced. Even if Braun as a starter plays 10 more mpg in 80 games, that’s only 800 minutes absorbed, leaving 1,600 KCP minutes to be absorbed by some combination of Watson, Strawther, and who knows who else. And Watson isn’t a guard though he can play SF. Yes, Saric will take up some minutes, but those are PF/C minutes that were going to Zeke, DJ, and AG as backup C. I really don’t know how the Nuggets plan to allocate the entire 2,400 minutes that KCP played. Then add in the 860 minutes Holiday played that need to be replaced by whom? We’ve got a problem.
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Post by wizardofcozz on Aug 6, 2024 19:08:40 GMT -5
Jokic isn't moving. Doesn't make sense to move AG -- he's on a relative bargain contract and a great fit next to Jokic. The discussion here is about improving the core, not like "who can we trade DAJ for" -- so what's the realistic Jamal or MPJ trade? A couple years ago I proposed MPJ for OG + Boucher, and I think the Nuggets would have won the championship and maybe be in a better spot this year with that particular trade. But what "all star" level player is another team realistically going to trade for either Jamal or MPJ, given the injury history and contract situations? We could go get Jordan Poole (LOL), or maybe swap for the oft-injured Tyler Herro if the Heat want to swap injured guards, but who else who is actually good enough to be the #2 or #3 on a championship team? He's om bargain now but going to get paid when contract up. We seem to just wait and not be proactive anymore. Not sayings it's AG that needs to be moved but we should be looking to improve roster anyway possible.
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Post by GBG on Aug 6, 2024 19:16:14 GMT -5
Jokic isn't moving. Doesn't make sense to move AG -- he's on a relative bargain contract and a great fit next to Jokic. The discussion here is about improving the core, not like "who can we trade DAJ for" -- so what's the realistic Jamal or MPJ trade? A couple years ago I proposed MPJ for OG + Boucher, and I think the Nuggets would have won the championship and maybe be in a better spot this year with that particular trade. But what "all star" level player is another team realistically going to trade for either Jamal or MPJ, given the injury history and contract situations? We could go get Jordan Poole (LOL), or maybe swap for the oft-injured Tyler Herro if the Heat want to swap injured guards, but who else who is actually good enough to be the #2 or #3 on a championship team? He's om bargain now but going to get paid when contract up. We seem to just wait and not be proactive anymore. Not sayings it's AG that needs to be moved but we should be looking to improve roster anyway possible. We just need enough good new roleplayers to offset the loss of 2,400 KCP and 860 Justin Holiday minutes. We have no roster space. Maybe Trey Alexander is the surprise of the year, but he’s on a 2-way which limits his availability and can’t be usable for playoffs. I still think Zeke will be traded at some point. But if not, Pickett needs to be waived to pick up a vet guard for minimum like a Fournier, Fultz, or even Holiday again.
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Post by wicked3line on Aug 6, 2024 19:27:31 GMT -5
He's om bargain now but going to get paid when contract up. We seem to just wait and not be proactive anymore. Not sayings it's AG that needs to be moved but we should be looking to improve roster anyway possible. We just need enough good new roleplayers to offset the loss of 2,400 KCP and 860 Justin Holiday minutes. We have no roster space. Maybe Trey Alexander is the surprise of the year, but he’s on a 2-way which limits his availability and can’t be usable for playoffs. I still think Zeke will be traded at some point. But if not, Pickett needs to be waived to pick up a vet guard for minimum like a Fournier, Fultz, or even Holiday again. Westbrook isn't coming only to backup Jamal for 15-16 mpg as he will be closer to 22-24 mpg. CB will likely see closer to 25 mpg at the SG while Strawther is around 15-16 mpg. That conveniently leaves 7-8 mpg for a Westbrook and Jamal backcourt.
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Post by Ring on Aug 6, 2024 20:24:14 GMT -5
Jokic isn't moving. Doesn't make sense to move AG -- he's on a relative bargain contract and a great fit next to Jokic. The discussion here is about improving the core, not like "who can we trade DAJ for" -- so what's the realistic Jamal or MPJ trade? A couple years ago I proposed MPJ for OG + Boucher, and I think the Nuggets would have won the championship and maybe be in a better spot this year with that particular trade. But what "all star" level player is another team realistically going to trade for either Jamal or MPJ, given the injury history and contract situations? We could go get Jordan Poole (LOL), or maybe swap for the oft-injured Tyler Herro if the Heat want to swap injured guards, but who else who is actually good enough to be the #2 or #3 on a championship team? Nobody knows who is going to come available but there are always big names that get traded. The Nuggets shouldn't just accept mediocrity. Like lets say the Nuggets get bounced in Round 2 next year, it will again be because of Murray/MPJ/AG. So you need to upgrade from those guys. Jokic is the best player in the world. There is no upgrading him. Upgrading on your 2nd/3rd/4th best players who can't even sniff an All Star game? Yeah...you try to get upgrades on those guys.
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Post by famicommander on Aug 6, 2024 20:44:11 GMT -5
It's not the difference between Braun and KCP that has us concerned. It's the difference between Braun/Holiday/Strawther being the depth last year versus literally just Strawther this year. The trouble is that KCP’s 2,400 minutes played last season has to be replaced. Even if Braun as a starter plays 10 more mpg in 80 games, that’s only 800 minutes absorbed, leaving 1,600 KCP minutes to be absorbed by some combination of Watson, Strawther, and who knows who else. And Watson isn’t a guard though he can play SF. Yes, Saric will take up some minutes, but those are PF/C minutes that were going to Zeke, DJ, and AG as backup C. I really don’t know how the Nuggets plan to allocate the entire 2,400 minutes that KCP played. Then add in the 860 minutes Holiday played that need to be replaced by whom? We’ve got a problem. The 3 point shooting is going to be a big problem. KCP to Braun is a downgrade. Reggie to Westbrook is a downgrade. Braun/Holiday to Strawther is a downgrade. We need Saric to hit 3s at the clip he has for the last 3 seasons, but at a higher volume. We need Braun to increase his volume significantly at the same percentage or better. We need both Strawther and Watson to drastically increase their efficiency from last year. We need Cancar to have his best year ever from the arc. And all of that assumes we're getting normal 3 point production from Murray, Porter, and Jokic. Jokic ticking back up from last year would help a lot too.
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Post by GBG on Aug 6, 2024 21:35:50 GMT -5
We just need enough good new roleplayers to offset the loss of 2,400 KCP and 860 Justin Holiday minutes. We have no roster space. Maybe Trey Alexander is the surprise of the year, but he’s on a 2-way which limits his availability and can’t be usable for playoffs. I still think Zeke will be traded at some point. But if not, Pickett needs to be waived to pick up a vet guard for minimum like a Fournier, Fultz, or even Holiday again. Westbrook isn't coming only to backup Jamal for 15-16 mpg as he will be closer to 22-24 mpg. CB will likely see closer to 25 mpg at the SG while Strawther is around 15-16 mpg. That conveniently leaves 7-8 mpg for a Westbrook and Jamal backcourt. Westbrook, at age 36, will be replacing Reggie’s 22.2 mpg, and he played all 82 games. That’s 1,817 minutes we are counting on Russell to replace. With his aging legs, playing at altitude, I doubt he can play anything close to 82 games, and while he might average 25 mpg, it might be in 60-65 games. At best, 1,600 minutes is all we can count on from Westbrook. Who plays if Russ can’t go? Pickett? Trey? This team has a much lower regular season ceiling than in 2023.
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Post by jimijam28 on Aug 6, 2024 23:09:58 GMT -5
this team sucks- blow it up
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Post by nuggetshipster on Aug 7, 2024 4:11:36 GMT -5
yes Erik KCP/Braun was the SG rotation if KCP resigned. Strawther was getting bit minutes there. maybe some bit minutes at SF. no clear, defined role. now, he's 50% of our SG rotation. and he'll have the entire season to get accustomed to that role. and now Malone will have the luxury to play Strawther heavy minutes in the playoffs when teams like the Wolves collapsed on Joker and KCP/Braun were either bricking shots are too scared to shoot at all what the f**k are you talking about lmao. The luxury of playing Strawther, as if he is better than KCP. Absolutely insane take
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Post by nuggetshipster on Aug 7, 2024 4:15:29 GMT -5
Are you new to basketball JB? I know you arent so what the f**k are you thinking.
In basketball sometimes your shot doesnt fall. But KCP is as proven of a shooter and overall SG as there is on this planet.
Strawther shot 29% from deep his only season in the league.
How far up Calvin ass is it possible to get lmaoo
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Post by Tymes Rhymes on Aug 7, 2024 7:23:16 GMT -5
I know the conversation has already evolved a bit in the last few pages but I think that Jamal Murray, regardless of his Olympic performance, is offered (and he signs) an extension.
I mean he has stated just this last season that he wants to end his career in Denver. Denver F.O. is notorious for giving guys "wink wink" and "bet" deals I.E. Zeke Nnaji and Reggie Jackson in the last few seasons, and I'm not too convinced that they aren't stressing out about hurting Jamal's feelings by revoking (or even lessening) their offer that Jamal so graciously declined to sign before the Olympics.
I like Jamal, good kid, but at this point, ideally you only sign him to a max if you plan on eventually using his contract to match whomever you would go after in a trade.
If you plan to keep Jamal, a max isn't too smart considering his age, closing in on 30, and apparent loss of athleticism as of these Olympic games. But again, if you don't offer him a max now, you risk hurting his feelings and having to scramble to find a trade or risk letting him walk for nothing.
Glad my front office prowess is limited to NBA 2K and I don't have to make any real decisions.
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Post by wicked3line on Aug 7, 2024 8:20:11 GMT -5
I know the conversation has already evolved a bit in the last few pages but I think that Jamal Murray, regardless of his Olympic performance, is offered (and he signs) an extension. I mean he has stated just this last season that he wants to end his career in Denver. Denver F.O. is notorious for giving guys "wink wink" and "bet" deals I.E. Zeke Nnaji and Reggie Jackson in the last few seasons, and I'm not too convinced that they aren't stressing out about hurting Jamal's feelings by revoking (or even lessening) their offer that Jamal so graciously declined to sign before the Olympics. I like Jamal, good kid, but at this point, ideally you only sign him to a max if you plan on eventually using his contract to match whomever you would go after in a trade. If you plan to keep Jamal, a max isn't too smart considering his age, closing in on 30, and apparent loss of athleticism as of these Olympic games. But again, if you don't offer him a max now, you risk hurting his feelings and having to scramble to find a trade or risk letting him walk for nothing. Glad my front office prowess is limited to NBA 2K and I don't have to make any real decisions. This truly feels like Jamal is headed toward his typical slow start before taking off by January. He has to get in shape for one and have more time to heal his lingering issues from last season. Wouldn't even be surprised if Jamal is on a minutes and game restriction the first couple months with his stats looking more like his return to play in the early 2022-2023 season after his ACL injury.
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Post by JB on Aug 7, 2024 8:46:37 GMT -5
Are you new to basketball JB? I know you arent so what the f**k are you thinking. In basketball sometimes your shot doesnt fall. But KCP is as proven of a shooter and overall SG as there is on this planet. Strawther shot 29% from deep his only season in the league. How far up Calvin ass is it possible to get lmaoo I would ask the same question, but I know that would trigger a mental breakdown with you because you can dish out the insults but can't take them. KCP IS OLD OLD PLAYERS DECLINE I hope that helps. Strawther dealt with injuries his entire rookie season and struggled to get into a rhythm offensively. he's better than his numbers suggest.
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Post by GBG on Aug 7, 2024 8:50:48 GMT -5
How long does it take for shin splints to heal? Or do they? Jamal might be slowed down by that condition that we read about in the latter portion of last season. He might have also been slow-walking or sandbagging (or whatever term you want to use) his performance for Team Canada as a personal business decision.
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Post by JB on Aug 7, 2024 9:28:50 GMT -5
I don't think Jamal was going to put his foot on the gas with the extension negotiation still up in the air.
but Team Canada did all they could to set him up to fail. they should've tapped Tristan Thompson who could at least set a solid screen and be a physical presence for that team, and let him cook. you're not doing anything with a bunch of powerless forwards like Dwight Powell and Kelly Olynyk as your only bigs.
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Post by Ring on Aug 7, 2024 9:53:09 GMT -5
The trouble is that KCP’s 2,400 minutes played last season has to be replaced. Even if Braun as a starter plays 10 more mpg in 80 games, that’s only 800 minutes absorbed, leaving 1,600 KCP minutes to be absorbed by some combination of Watson, Strawther, and who knows who else. And Watson isn’t a guard though he can play SF. Yes, Saric will take up some minutes, but those are PF/C minutes that were going to Zeke, DJ, and AG as backup C. I really don’t know how the Nuggets plan to allocate the entire 2,400 minutes that KCP played. Then add in the 860 minutes Holiday played that need to be replaced by whom? We’ve got a problem. The 3 point shooting is going to be a big problem. KCP to Braun is a downgrade. Reggie to Westbrook is a downgrade. Braun/Holiday to Strawther is a downgrade. We need Saric to hit 3s at the clip he has for the last 3 seasons, but at a higher volume. We need Braun to increase his volume significantly at the same percentage or better. We need both Strawther and Watson to drastically increase their efficiency from last year. We need Cancar to have his best year ever from the arc. And all of that assumes we're getting normal 3 point production from Murray, Porter, and Jokic. Jokic ticking back up from last year would help a lot too. These are all assumptions. Some fair, some unfair. If Braun shoots 38% from 3, the difference in % will not matter because he's a better all around offensive player than KCP. KCP was a spot up shooter and a mid-range DHO guy. That was it. There was nothing else he could do offensively. CB while not as good of a shooter is a much better cutter, offensive rebounder and player in transition. So you lose something but also gain something. Strawther will probably be an upgrade over Braun/Holiday.
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Post by GBG on Aug 7, 2024 10:22:12 GMT -5
The 3 point shooting is going to be a big problem. KCP to Braun is a downgrade. Reggie to Westbrook is a downgrade. Braun/Holiday to Strawther is a downgrade. We need Saric to hit 3s at the clip he has for the last 3 seasons, but at a higher volume. We need Braun to increase his volume significantly at the same percentage or better. We need both Strawther and Watson to drastically increase their efficiency from last year. We need Cancar to have his best year ever from the arc. And all of that assumes we're getting normal 3 point production from Murray, Porter, and Jokic. Jokic ticking back up from last year would help a lot too. These are all assumptions. Some fair, some unfair. If Braun shoots 38% from 3, the difference in % will not matter because he's a better all around offensive player than KCP. KCP was a spot up shooter and a mid-range DHO guy. That was it. There was nothing else he could do offensively. CB while not as good of a shooter is a much better cutter, offensive rebounder and player in transition. So you lose something but also gain something. Strawther will probably be an upgrade over Braun/Holiday. Your last sentence is where I think Nuggets fans are engaged in wishful thinking. While Strawther could end up being great for us, we have no idea. He’s a spin on the Wheel of Fortune. A total guess as to whether he will be good, adequate, or just an inefficient and inconsistent chucker. Color me skeptical, but I have no idea how Straw will end up. Seems a bit on the optimistic side to say he will be an upgrade on CB/Holiday when both did well with their playing time last season. Obviously, I hope you’re right about Strawther, but what you say in that last sentence is a leap of faith, IMO.
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Post by Ring on Aug 7, 2024 10:53:40 GMT -5
These are all assumptions. Some fair, some unfair. If Braun shoots 38% from 3, the difference in % will not matter because he's a better all around offensive player than KCP. KCP was a spot up shooter and a mid-range DHO guy. That was it. There was nothing else he could do offensively. CB while not as good of a shooter is a much better cutter, offensive rebounder and player in transition. So you lose something but also gain something. Strawther will probably be an upgrade over Braun/Holiday. Your last sentence is where I think Nuggets fans are engaged in wishful thinking. While Strawther could end up being great for us, we have no idea. He’s a spin on the Wheel of Fortune. A total guess as to whether he will be good, adequate, or just an inefficient and inconsistent chucker. Color me skeptical, but I have no idea how Straw will end up. Seems a bit on the optimistic side to say he will be an upgrade on CB/Holiday when both did well with their playing time last season. Obviously, I hope you’re right about Strawther, but what you say in that last sentence is a leap of faith, IMO. I'm talking specifically about shooting. I still believe in Strawthers shot. Just needs better shot selection. Westbrook-Strawther-Watson-Saric is a good bench. It's so much better than last years. And the starting lineup won't miss a beat by swapping KCP for CB IMO. I'm very high on this version of the Nuggets. I only have 2 concerns. Jamal Murray and Michael Porter Jr.
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Post by scooter on Aug 7, 2024 12:03:48 GMT -5
Jokic isn't moving. Doesn't make sense to move AG -- he's on a relative bargain contract and a great fit next to Jokic. The discussion here is about improving the core, not like "who can we trade DAJ for" -- so what's the realistic Jamal or MPJ trade? A couple years ago I proposed MPJ for OG + Boucher, and I think the Nuggets would have won the championship and maybe be in a better spot this year with that particular trade. But what "all star" level player is another team realistically going to trade for either Jamal or MPJ, given the injury history and contract situations? We could go get Jordan Poole (LOL), or maybe swap for the oft-injured Tyler Herro if the Heat want to swap injured guards, but who else who is actually good enough to be the #2 or #3 on a championship team? Nobody knows who is going to come available but there are always big names that get traded. The Nuggets shouldn't just accept mediocrity. Like lets say the Nuggets get bounced in Round 2 next year, it will again be because of Murray/MPJ/AG. So you need to upgrade from those guys. Jokic is the best player in the world. There is no upgrading him. Upgrading on your 2nd/3rd/4th best players who can't even sniff an All Star game? Yeah...you try to get upgrades on those guys. All of this “allstar” stuff just seems to me to be awfully ESPN/casual fan oriented. As we’ve covered, there is a very big group of “all stars” — including a recent MVP — who haven’t won diddly and many of them I wouldn’t want on my team. By contrast, Jamal Murray was the 2nd most important player — by a big margin — on a championship team. Derrick White has 0 allstar appearances and I think we’ve seen with the Celtics and now the US National Team (he’s averaging 18 minutes/game, about the same as Edwards, Curry, Tatum etc.) that he’s far better when it comes to contributing to winning than lots of “big name” players who have lots of allstar and all-NBA awards. And what’s with “accept mediocrity?” The most recent season the Nuggets were 57-25 with a very difficult western conference (and defending champions) schedule, and lost in game 7 of the 2nd round because their main guys ran out of gas. That’s far removed from “mediocre.” We all want the Nuggets to be as good as they can be, but there are no dynasties in the NBA during this era. There are only teams that are in the title hunt and teams that are not. There is a huge difference between “mediocre” and “not a title dynasty.” IMO, the Nuggets weaknesses mostly stem from some bad drafts (and summers generally) during 2017-2020, which has led them to use limited assets to plug role player holes which wouldn’t be there if they had hit (to a modest “good role player” level) on another guy or two. Their bench has been bad, and that led to wearing out the starters last season. They’ve done a better job with late draft picks the last few summers, and I’m hoping that gets them back on the right path. No, I don’t want them to trade for James Harden or Zion Williamson because they are “big names” with allstar appearances.
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