|
Post by scooter on Aug 6, 2024 11:32:56 GMT -5
It is beyond puzzling, that a Tyus Jones, Gary Trent Jr, Andre Drummond do not want to play with a 3-time MVP and the best player in the world Even LeBron in his prime was able to get these types of guys Because this — roster turnover every season and fishing for multiple rental vets each season — isn’t what Nuggets management wants. The Raptors won a title with a rental Kawhi (a rental star player for whom they traded) and the Nuggets won their title with a rental Brown. But they were not just “guys” who became available and they were added to teams that otherwise had a stable group with a lot of continuity (like the Warriors in ‘22). Brown was really the perfect role player for the Nuggets at the time who was also an excellent intangibles fit on the Nuggets. It wasn’t something that could be repeated every season. The Celtics remade their roster but they did it through trades — targeting particular players to provide particular skills and particular attributes and intangibles to create the team they wanted. Not picking up random “guys” just because they became available when they didn’t get a good payday in free agency. There is a reason some seemingly good players fall through the free agency cracks and more often than not time proves that the league actually knew some things and their value to winning was not that high. Last year one of those guys was our old friend Malik Beasley (“what a bargain signing!!!”) and the Bucks. Didn’t lead to a great season of winning. The Raptors had all of the ability to re-sign Trent and chose not to — they might know something. Drummond has only played in 17 playoff games (all first round losses) in a 12 season NBA career, so — not a lot of winning. Jones is a very small guard and Nuggets’ management has prioritized size for position. He’s a good player but not what they were looking for. That’s the thing with most of “these types of guys” — they look good on paper but more often they don’t lead to more winning. The Nuggets added 1 in 22-23, 1 in 23-24, and 2 in 24-25. I’m not sure how it will go with Westbrook but they went out to get him because he had particular qualities they wanted — more toughness, more pace, more competitiveness, more of a “locker room” presence. They went out to get Saric because they wanted a backup center with basketball skills (kinda balancing out the Westbrook signing). They were not interested in signing whoever fell through the free agency cracks.
|
|
|
Post by LotharBraunBrownBryant on Aug 6, 2024 12:28:56 GMT -5
It is beyond puzzling, that a Tyus Jones, Gary Trent Jr, Andre Drummond do not want to play with a 3-time MVP and the best player in the world Even LeBron in his prime was able to get these types of guys Because this — roster turnover every season and fishing for multiple rental vets each season — isn’t what Nuggets management wants. The Raptors won a title with a rental Kawhi (a rental star player for whom they traded) and the Nuggets won their title with a rental Brown. But they were not just “guys” who became available and they were added to teams that otherwise had a stable group with a lot of continuity (like the Warriors in ‘22). Brown was really the perfect role player for the Nuggets at the time who was also an excellent intangibles fit on the Nuggets. It wasn’t something that could be repeated every season. The Celtics remade their roster but they did it through trades — targeting particular players to provide particular skills and particular attributes and intangibles to create the team they wanted. Not picking up random “guys” just because they became available when they didn’t get a good payday in free agency. There is a reason some seemingly good players fall through the free agency cracks and more often than not time proves that the league actually knew some things and their value to winning was not that high. Last year one of those guys was our old friend Malik Beasley (“what a bargain signing!!!”) and the Bucks. Didn’t lead to a great season of winning. The Raptors had all of the ability to re-sign Trent and chose not to — they might know something. Drummond has only played in 17 playoff games (all first round losses) in a 12 season NBA career, so — not a lot of winning. Jones is a very small guard and Nuggets’ management has prioritized size for position. He’s a good player but not what they were looking for. That’s the thing with most of “these types of guys” — they look good on paper but more often they don’t lead to more winning. The Nuggets added 1 in 22-23, 1 in 23-24, and 2 in 24-25. I’m not sure how it will go with Westbrook but they went out to get him because he had particular qualities they wanted — more toughness, more pace, more competitiveness, more of a “locker room” presence. They went out to get Saric because they wanted a backup center with basketball skills (kinda balancing out the Westbrook signing). They were not interested in signing whoever fell through the free agency cracks. My question to those who wonder why a Jokic team "can't" get certain guys: do you think Jokic has input into which guys the FO goes out and tries to get? Because I'm pretty sure he does. Like he's not out there LeBron'ing the roster by pushing for a trade for a "star" who doesn't fit well, but there's no way he's not in the FO's ear about like, hey, Saric would be a good pickup for this reason, etc. So at least when it comes to minimum-contract guys, I've decided not to worry. If Jokic wanted the FO to go get that specific guy for the minimum, I have no doubt that's who the FO would have gone after. And there are a lot of basketball pros who I'll argue with about roster fit and stuff, but Jokic isn't.
|
|
|
Post by Ring on Aug 6, 2024 12:52:49 GMT -5
So like…at what point are people going to be concerned about Murray? He’s looked like complete s**t for 4 months now and everyone is running to give him a max.
Crazy that people are pretending like it’s not concerning that Murray can’t get by 35+ year old international players. I really fear giving him a max will end Jokics realistic chance at another title. We need to upgrade our 2nd and 3rd options.
|
|
|
Post by wizardofcozz on Aug 6, 2024 13:15:10 GMT -5
So like…at what point are people going to be concerned about Murray? He’s looked like complete s**t for 4 months now and everyone is running to give him a max. Crazy that people are pretending like it’s not concerning that Murray can’t get by 35+ year old international players. I really fear giving him a max will end Jokics realistic chance at another title. We need to upgrade our 2nd and 3rd options. I can't agree with you more. He looks sp unathletic right now. It's extremely alarming.
|
|
|
Post by JB on Aug 6, 2024 13:15:23 GMT -5
you've got the concern part locked down for the rest of us. you've been in a state of a non-stop panic since the playoffs.
Jamal is hurt and coasting. he's still dealing with the same injuries and not going to risk the biggest bag of his career over a bunch of glorified pick up games. also, playing the Derrick White role to SGA with absolutely no big men on the roster to set a decent screen for him was like the worst of all worlds scenario going on for him.
|
|
|
Post by famicommander on Aug 6, 2024 13:18:57 GMT -5
So like…at what point are people going to be concerned about Murray? He’s looked like complete s**t for 4 months now and everyone is running to give him a max. Crazy that people are pretending like it’s not concerning that Murray can’t get by 35+ year old international players. I really fear giving him a max will end Jokics realistic chance at another title. We need to upgrade our 2nd and 3rd options. I'm quite concerned. He looks like a guy who needed to take a summer off and didn't. So he's going to roll into the season neither in full health nor in true NBA game shape. Seems like it's going to be another year where he is always playing through an injury and ends up missing 20-30 games. And that's a terrifying thought given our lack of guard depth.
|
|
|
Post by nuggetshipster on Aug 6, 2024 13:25:31 GMT -5
in game 7 against the Wolves, KCP played 40 minutes and posted a Wilson Chandlerian 5 points on 2-7 shooting. he shot 32% from 3 during the entire playoffs. I love Pope, but he's 32 and declining. he's not worth getting locked into the 2nd apron over. you could even argue this is a blessing in disguise now that Malone is compelled to give real rotation minutes to Strawther and now we're going to have more versatility at the SG spot. Braun and Strawther has more versatility than Braun, Strawther and Pope? People only say flexibility when explaining why not go 2nd apron. Because f**k the TPML. Aint no TPMLE players better than KCP. You dont need to go far for evidence of that. But flexibility? To do what? We wont trade Murray, MPJ or Gordon. And if flexibility was the main objective, why TF did we trade away all our picks lmao Because the main objective is to save money? People so confused they think spending less makes us better. Because?
|
|
|
Post by Ring on Aug 6, 2024 13:29:47 GMT -5
you've got the concern part locked down for the rest of us. you've been in a state of a non-stop panic since the playoffs. Jamal is hurt and coasting. he's still dealing with the same injuries and not going to risk the biggest bag of his career over a bunch of glorified pick up games. also, playing the Derrick White role to SGA with absolutely no big men on the roster to set a decent screen for him was like the worst of all worlds scenario going on for him. Always an excuse for the guy instead of just holding him to a high standard.
|
|
|
Post by freakns on Aug 6, 2024 13:30:25 GMT -5
So like…at what point are people going to be concerned about Murray? He’s looked like complete s**t for 4 months now and everyone is running to give him a max. Crazy that people are pretending like it’s not concerning that Murray can’t get by 35+ year old international players. I really fear giving him a max will end Jokics realistic chance at another title. We need to upgrade our 2nd and 3rd options. after what we saw in the playoffs, and now on the Olympics, I dont think I would offer him max. No way. he was really bad during whole tournament, but just now he successfully shout the Canadiens out of the Olympics. and not only that, he couldn't go through 34 yrs old 5ft10 guy who doesn't even play in the Euroleague. Albicy plays for Gran Canaria, team that finished 7th in Spain last season. and its not like rules are different, its tougher to play, and ball is different so NBA aren't used to it... Well, Kevin Durant, LeBron James and Devin Booker have no problems shooting that same ball. Also, Denis Schroder destroy whole France defense just two days ago. saving grace, after last season both Calvin Booth and Michael Malone indicated that is unacceptable for Murray to be out of shape again. I think they knew it cost Nuggets in playoofs, and they are sick of it. Jamal is insane talent, and without him we would never won a title, but it is clear he doesnt take care of his body as NBA players should. And if he isn't ready to change, then say bye bye to a lots of money
|
|
|
Post by JB on Aug 6, 2024 13:31:06 GMT -5
yes Erik
KCP/Braun was the SG rotation if KCP resigned. Strawther was getting bit minutes there. maybe some bit minutes at SF. no clear, defined role. now, he's 50% of our SG rotation. and he'll have the entire season to get accustomed to that role.
and now Malone will have the luxury to play Strawther heavy minutes in the playoffs when teams like the Wolves collapsed on Joker and KCP/Braun were either bricking shots are too scared to shoot at all
|
|
|
Post by JB on Aug 6, 2024 13:32:39 GMT -5
you've got the concern part locked down for the rest of us. you've been in a state of a non-stop panic since the playoffs. Jamal is hurt and coasting. he's still dealing with the same injuries and not going to risk the biggest bag of his career over a bunch of glorified pick up games. also, playing the Derrick White role to SGA with absolutely no big men on the roster to set a decent screen for him was like the worst of all worlds scenario going on for him. Always an excuse for the guy instead of just holding him to a high standard. mentally prepare yourself for the fact there's about a 99.8% likelihood he's signing the max. maybe with some game played guarantees and TO in the final year
|
|
|
Post by Ring on Aug 6, 2024 13:33:02 GMT -5
So like…at what point are people going to be concerned about Murray? He’s looked like complete s**t for 4 months now and everyone is running to give him a max. Crazy that people are pretending like it’s not concerning that Murray can’t get by 35+ year old international players. I really fear giving him a max will end Jokics realistic chance at another title. We need to upgrade our 2nd and 3rd options. after what we saw in the playoffs, and now on the Olympics, I dont think I would offer him max. No way. he was really bad during whole tournament, but just now he successfully shout the Canadiens out of the Olympics. and not only that, he couldn't go through 34 yrs old 5ft10 guy who doesn't even play in the Euroleague. Albicy plays for Gran Canaria, team that finished 7th in Spain last season. and its not like rules are different, its tougher to play, and ball is different so NBA aren't used to it... Well, Kevin Durant, LeBron James and Devin Booker have no problems shooting that same ball. Also, Denis Schroder destroy whole France defense just two days ago. saving grace, after last season both Calvin Booth and Michael Malone indicated that is unacceptable for Murray to be out of shape again. I think they knew it cost Nuggets in playoofs, and they are sick of it. Jamal is insane talent, and without him we would never won a title, but it is clear he doesnt take care of his body as NBA players should. And if he isn't ready to change, then say bye bye to a lots of money In reality, the Nuggets are going to pay him and Jokic is going to finish his career with 1 ring because the Nuggets aren't a serious organization. How f***ing hard is it to get the guy an All Star teammate? Only franchise I've ever seen have an all time generational player and just be content with his co-stars not being all stars.
|
|
|
Post by GBG on Aug 6, 2024 15:32:14 GMT -5
My rankings, to repeat, are going into the season with the assumption all rosters remain healthy. IRL, I know injuries will determine actual standings and seeding. My belief is that injuries can’t be predicted. Certain guys are more prone, of course, like an older Durant, Beal, and yes, Murray. But by nature, lost playing time to injuries is unknowable.
Someone above said PHX or Dallas will finish behind us since they will be more injured. Who knows, that could happen. Also, Jokic has never missed meaningful time to injuries,and knock on wood, he never does. But maybe he’s overdue. Our depth could be tested and is poor relative to other playoff teams in WC. Inferior depth and inferior 3PT shooting from our backcourt (especially) could make us a 5-seed team, easily.
|
|
|
Post by Ring on Aug 6, 2024 15:59:21 GMT -5
My rankings, to repeat, are going into the season with the assumption all rosters remain healthy. IRL, I know injuries will determine actual standings and seeding. My belief is that injuries can’t be predicted. Certain guys are more prone, of course, like an older Durant, Beal, and yes, Murray. But by nature, lost playing time to injuries is unknowable. Someone above said PHX or Dallas will finish behind us since they will be more injured. Who knows, that could happen. Also, Jokic has never missed meaningful time to injuries,and knock on wood, he never does. But maybe he’s overdue. Our depth could be tested and is poor relative to other playoff teams in WC. Inferior depth and inferior 3PT shooting from our backcourt (especially) could make us a 5-seed team, easily. I think people are just over-reacting way too much to the KCP loss. Maybe I'll look like a fool but I really don't think we are going to see much drop off with Christian Braun, if any. The shooting might be worse but if he shoots 38% from 3, does it really matter considering what he brings on the glass, cutting and energy wise? Not in my opinion. He's a much better defender for certain arch-types too. The bench is going to be better. Westbrook is better than Reggie. Watson is another year into his career. Saric is better than Zeke/DJ/whatever we had last year. I really think we're going to be better this year. My one and only concern is Murray, for obvious reasons.
|
|
|
Post by GBG on Aug 6, 2024 16:20:16 GMT -5
My rankings, to repeat, are going into the season with the assumption all rosters remain healthy. IRL, I know injuries will determine actual standings and seeding. My belief is that injuries can’t be predicted. Certain guys are more prone, of course, like an older Durant, Beal, and yes, Murray. But by nature, lost playing time to injuries is unknowable. Someone above said PHX or Dallas will finish behind us since they will be more injured. Who knows, that could happen. Also, Jokic has never missed meaningful time to injuries,and knock on wood, he never does. But maybe he’s overdue. Our depth could be tested and is poor relative to other playoff teams in WC. Inferior depth and inferior 3PT shooting from our backcourt (especially) could make us a 5-seed team, easily. I think people are just over-reacting way too much to the KCP loss. Maybe I'll look like a fool but I really don't think we are going to see much drop off with Christian Braun, if any. The shooting might be worse but if he shoots 38% from 3, does it really matter considering what he brings on the glass, cutting and energy wise? Not in my opinion. He's a much better defender for certain arch-types too. The bench is going to be better. Westbrook is better than Reggie. Watson is another year into his career. Saric is better than Zeke/DJ/whatever we had last year. I really think we're going to be better this year. My one and only concern is Murray, for obvious reasons. Our fate rests on 1) health, especially in postseason, 2) Watson, who needs to make a shooting leap, and 3) Strawther, who needs to show he’s a trustworthy rotation player. On this point, we really don’t know if Straw will be a rotation level NBA player in five years, or playing in Taiwan or Europe. He’s maybe THE wild card for our 2025 hopes.
|
|
|
Post by famicommander on Aug 6, 2024 17:11:15 GMT -5
My rankings, to repeat, are going into the season with the assumption all rosters remain healthy. IRL, I know injuries will determine actual standings and seeding. My belief is that injuries can’t be predicted. Certain guys are more prone, of course, like an older Durant, Beal, and yes, Murray. But by nature, lost playing time to injuries is unknowable. Someone above said PHX or Dallas will finish behind us since they will be more injured. Who knows, that could happen. Also, Jokic has never missed meaningful time to injuries,and knock on wood, he never does. But maybe he’s overdue. Our depth could be tested and is poor relative to other playoff teams in WC. Inferior depth and inferior 3PT shooting from our backcourt (especially) could make us a 5-seed team, easily. I think people are just over-reacting way too much to the KCP loss. Maybe I'll look like a fool but I really don't think we are going to see much drop off with Christian Braun, if any. The shooting might be worse but if he shoots 38% from 3, does it really matter considering what he brings on the glass, cutting and energy wise? Not in my opinion. He's a much better defender for certain arch-types too. The bench is going to be better. Westbrook is better than Reggie. Watson is another year into his career. Saric is better than Zeke/DJ/whatever we had last year. I really think we're going to be better this year. My one and only concern is Murray, for obvious reasons. It's not the difference between Braun and KCP that has us concerned. It's the difference between Braun/Holiday/Strawther being the depth last year versus literally just Strawther this year.
|
|
|
Post by rock on Aug 6, 2024 17:17:48 GMT -5
I'm very much afraid Jokic will end up like Dirk with only 1 ring. At least Mark Cuban made an effort to surround Dirk with talent like Tyson Chandler, Peja, the Jet, Jason Kidd, etc. Jokic at 29-30 has had a vastly superior career compared to Dirk at the same age. It makes me terribly sad to see Josh and Stan Kroenke ruin an all-time great and generational player like Jokic's career by having an incompetent GM like Calvin Booth. Once Dirk retired, Dallas was lucky to have a generational talent like Luka. Once Jokic retires or is in decline, who will replace him? We have our Michael Jordan and LeBron James in Jokic, yet we have done nothing to surround him with quality talent. Its just awful and an insult to have injury prone bums like Jamal Murray and Michael Porter Jr as the 2nd and 3rd best players next to him. Its awful... Unfortunately the new CBA has destroyed our chances. If it was delayed 5 seasons we would have a much stronger roster by now Is part of that booths fault? Yes. But there are still things we had no chance of salvaging
|
|
|
Post by scooter on Aug 6, 2024 18:03:34 GMT -5
In reality, the Nuggets are going to pay him and Jokic is going to finish his career with 1 ring because the Nuggets aren't a serious organization. How f***ing hard is it to get the guy an All Star teammate? Only franchise I've ever seen have an all time generational player and just be content with his co-stars not being all stars. So the Nuggets should trade whatever they need to trade to get allstar Nikola Vucevic? Or Trae Young? Or Brandon Ingram? Or Andre Drummond (2-time allstar, with 0 career playoff series wins)? Zach LaVine? Zion Williamson? (Yep, the Pelicans have 2 “All Stars” so there’s no stopping them) LaMelo Ball? How about James Harden? BTW, Westbrook is a 9-time allstar, so if that’s a litmus test, Nuggets’ management has got it covered.
|
|
|
Post by Ring on Aug 6, 2024 18:06:51 GMT -5
In reality, the Nuggets are going to pay him and Jokic is going to finish his career with 1 ring because the Nuggets aren't a serious organization. How f***ing hard is it to get the guy an All Star teammate? Only franchise I've ever seen have an all time generational player and just be content with his co-stars not being all stars. So the Nuggets should trade whatever they need to trade to get allstar Nikola Vucevic? Or Trae Young? Or Brandon Ingram? Or Andre Drummond (2-time allstar, with 0 career playoff series wins)? Zach LaVine? Zion Williamson? (Yep, the Pelicans have 2 “All Stars” so there’s no stopping them) LaMelo Ball? How about James Harden? BTW, Westbrook is a 9-time allstar, so if that’s a litmus test, Nuggets’ management has got it covered. No, what they should do is try to improve their team when they have the best player in the world. Instead, he's stuck playing with a guy that is constantly injured and has zero burst. But we'll ignore that because he shows up in the playoffs. Except for when he doesn't. Just like how he's stuck playing with a guy who is incapable of playing against physical defensive. But we'll ignore that too because he hits shots against bad defenses. All you guys do is make excuses for this organization. Since the Nuggets won a Championship 2 seasons ago, they can never make a change to their core. They just have to ride it out forever. Remember, they won 1 already, no reason the exact same core can't do it again. There is absolutely zero reason to believe that Murray is all of a sudden going to turn into an elite player that stays healthy. He's never been that and he never will. He is turning 28 years old and he's not a high level NBA athlete. If you want to commit 50M a season to that type of player when Jokic is about to turn 30 and probably has 4 more years of MVP level basketball left in him, I think you're dumb. There are so many guards that are better that don't get to play with the best player in the world but we have to pretend like they wouldn't improve if they got to play with Jokic and that rings is all that matters. Newsflash guys, Murray isn't winning a ring without Jokic. Jokic can win a ring with 15+ other co-stars. Probably more.
|
|
|
Post by rock on Aug 6, 2024 18:18:31 GMT -5
So like…at what point are people going to be concerned about Murray? He’s looked like complete s**t for 4 months now and everyone is running to give him a max. Crazy that people are pretending like it’s not concerning that Murray can’t get by 35+ year old international players. I really fear giving him a max will end Jokics realistic chance at another title. We need to upgrade our 2nd and 3rd options. It’s definitely concerning And nothing we can do about it. Stupid nba rules force us to max him. And his agent knows it.
|
|