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Post by GBG on Aug 5, 2024 17:16:22 GMT -5
We’ll see. Again, I assume full health, and believe Ant will take another leap to be a first team All NBA performer. Phoenix addressed their PG problem, and I have a high opinion of Tyus Jones. Check his shooting numbers. He was a steal for the season they have him. Disagree with scooter, and would rather have Jones than Westbrook, easily.
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Post by famicommander on Aug 5, 2024 18:29:32 GMT -5
Phoenix is super old and super soft up front. I don't consider them real contenders, but they did address their massive hole at PG admirably with Jones, Morris, and Gillespie coming in.
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Post by GBG on Aug 5, 2024 18:45:22 GMT -5
Phoenix is super old and super soft up front. I don't consider them real contenders, but they did address their massive hole at PG admirably with Jones, Morris, and Gillespie coming in. Oh, don’t get me wrong, I do NOT consider PHX a championship contender. But they are built to be a RS juggernaut. 55+ win potential in the stacked WC. But they are too old at key spots to get through a grueling postseason intact.
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Post by scooter on Aug 5, 2024 20:07:05 GMT -5
We’ll see. Again, I assume full health, and believe Ant will take another leap to be a first team All NBA performer. Phoenix addressed their PG problem, and I have a high opinion of Tyus Jones. Check his shooting numbers. He was a steal for the season they have him. Disagree with scooter, and would rather have Jones than Westbrook, easily. Jones is a good regular season player (he’s been awful in the playoffs, shooting 36% from the field over 484 minutes), but in order for him to provide PG play with the Suns’ main guys and help them cut down on turnovers, he has to play in place of somebody else, and that creates a big drop off in team size, especially when Durant is out. That’s an issue as I see it — Jones is good in a vacuum (and would have been a good addition to the Nuggets’ roster), but it’s not like Mike Conley playing on the TWolves. Durant is their only rotation forward taller than about 6’5,” unless Bol improves a lot and becomes a rotation quality player. When Durant is out, are they going to run out lineups with one of their big stiff centers, 6’1 Jones and 3 guys (out of Beal, Booker, Allen, O’Neal, Okogie) who are all 6’3”-6’5”? That’s the problem I see with the idea that Jones is going to be something like a full time PG for that team.
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Post by GBG on Aug 5, 2024 20:20:04 GMT -5
We’ll see. Again, I assume full health, and believe Ant will take another leap to be a first team All NBA performer. Phoenix addressed their PG problem, and I have a high opinion of Tyus Jones. Check his shooting numbers. He was a steal for the season they have him. Disagree with scooter, and would rather have Jones than Westbrook, easily. Jones is a good regular season player (he’s been awful in the playoffs, shooting 36% from the field over 484 minutes), but in order for him to provide PG play with the Suns’ main guys and help them cut down on turnovers, he has to play in place of somebody else, and that creates a big drop off in team size, especially when Durant is out. That’s an issue as I see it — Jones is good in a vacuum (and would have been a good addition to the Nuggets’ roster), but it’s not like Mike Conley playing on the TWolves. Durant is their only rotation forward taller than about 6’5,” unless Bol improves a lot and becomes a rotation quality player. When Durant is out, are they going to run out lineups with one of their big stiff centers, 6’1 Jones and 3 guys (out of Beal, Booker, Allen, O’Neal, Okogie) who are all 6’3”-6’5”? That’s the problem I see with the idea that Jones is going to be something like a full time PG for that team. Booker is a tall guard and probably has one more leap at age 28 with a real PG sharing backcourt duties with him. You bring up Jones shooting numbers in playoffs, but look at Westbrook in 2024 postseason. Ugly.
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Post by scooter on Aug 5, 2024 22:37:50 GMT -5
I’m just not so sure about the idea that Jones and Booker are going to be playing together for heavy minutes. Who is losing their PT to Jones in this scenario? $50 mil/year Beal? Or would it be Allen?
That’s where I am with this — most of the Suns rotation players are guards. We’ve seen that win in the eastern conference, with the Heat and the Knicks (after becoming injury depleted last season). In the western conference, not so much.
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Post by sawyeral on Aug 5, 2024 23:04:37 GMT -5
I’m just not so sure about the idea that Jones and Booker are going to be playing together for heavy minutes. Who is losing their PT to Jones in this scenario? $50 mil/year Beal? Or would it be Allen? That’s where I am with this — most of the Suns rotation players are guards. We’ve seen that win in the eastern conference, with the Heat and the Knicks (after becoming injury depleted last season). In the western conference, not so much. I was adamant last year that the Suns were frauds. This year, while not contenders, there’s reason to believe they’ll be better than the nuggets. They are of course, one 36 yr old Durant injury away from being a play in team though
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Post by GBG on Aug 5, 2024 23:19:34 GMT -5
I’m just not so sure about the idea that Jones and Booker are going to be playing together for heavy minutes. Who is losing their PT to Jones in this scenario? $50 mil/year Beal? Or would it be Allen? That’s where I am with this — most of the Suns rotation players are guards. We’ve seen that win in the eastern conference, with the Heat and the Knicks (after becoming injury depleted last season). In the western conference, not so much. There are still 18 open roster spots on NBA rosters for free agent signings, by my count using Spotrac. Jones could have gone to one of them, but chose to go the Bruce Briwn route and take the minimum for a team he thinks could be elite and earn him a bag next summer. He averaged over 29 mpg last year (for a bad team, admittedly) but doesn’t want to go back to a situation where he’d average 20 mpg. He’s in his prime and will start plenty of games for Suns while sharing floor with Booker a lot. Keep in mind Beal has averaged 48 games a season the past three years and is 31. Suns are a scary regular season team, regardless.
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Post by scooter on Aug 6, 2024 0:51:25 GMT -5
I just don’t think these particular three (or kinda 3 1/2) guard lineups — Jones, Booker, whichever other guard is playing SF, Durant if he stays healthy and if not 6’5” O’Neal, Nurkic — will defend adequately. And that is going to put a limit on the minutes Jones plays.
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pie
Monte Towe Benchwarmer
Posts: 77
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Post by pie on Aug 6, 2024 4:41:51 GMT -5
The biggest issue is why can't you convince quality free agents to take a 1-year contract (a la the Bruce Brown method) to play with Jokic -- to get a ring and boost your value for your next contract?!
Plenty of quality free agents have gone to Milwaukee to play with Giannis. For some odd reason, with the exception of washed-up 36 year old Russel Westbrick, we can't get anyone.
The blame comes to Calvin Booth -- he should have been fired the minute we lost to Minnesota in game 7.
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pie
Monte Towe Benchwarmer
Posts: 77
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Post by pie on Aug 6, 2024 4:45:47 GMT -5
It is beyond puzzling, that a Tyus Jones, Gary Trent Jr, Andre Drummond do not want to play with a 3-time MVP and the best player in the world
Even LeBron in his prime was able to get these types of guys
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pie
Monte Towe Benchwarmer
Posts: 77
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Post by pie on Aug 6, 2024 4:53:53 GMT -5
I'm very much afraid Jokic will end up like Dirk with only 1 ring. At least Mark Cuban made an effort to surround Dirk with talent like Tyson Chandler, Peja, the Jet, Jason Kidd, etc.
Jokic at 29-30 has had a vastly superior career compared to Dirk at the same age. It makes me terribly sad to see Josh and Stan Kroenke ruin an all-time great and generational player like Jokic's career by having an incompetent GM like Calvin Booth.
Once Dirk retired, Dallas was lucky to have a generational talent like Luka. Once Jokic retires or is in decline, who will replace him?
We have our Michael Jordan and LeBron James in Jokic, yet we have done nothing to surround him with quality talent. Its just awful and an insult to have injury prone bums like Jamal Murray and Michael Porter Jr as the 2nd and 3rd best players next to him.
Its awful...
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Post by duh88 on Aug 6, 2024 7:08:49 GMT -5
We’re squarely in the 1st seed. Even if we don’t get it, we’ll be repping the west in the finals.
Saric is going to be a revelation - Jokic can finally rest and not face seeing us go down by 15.
RW will be the wrecking ball we need, giving Strawther time to build confidence as the other scoring option off the bench.
And we finally have someone in the starting five that can disrupt Anthony Edwards.
Calvin looked at every major weakness (no one defending Edwards, no backup C, no one to drive off the bench) and tactically addressed every single issue on the list. I would be even more bullish if Holmes didn’t go down - but not enough to stop what is coming.
I’m rarely wrong.
PS - Suns will be out again in the 1st round. They have no muscle. The teams with muscle will be in the west semis, and likely the same as a few months ago - OKC, Dallas, Minny and us.
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Post by wicked3line on Aug 6, 2024 7:21:12 GMT -5
Right now, based on all the summer transactions and how the rosters look to me, I’d rank the “fully healthy seeding” likelihood going into next season as follows: 1. OKC 2. Minny 3. Phoenix 4. Dallas 5. Denver 6. Sacramento 7. Golden State 8. Memphis 9. LA Lakers 10. New Orleans 11. LA Clippers 12. Houston 13. San Antonio 14. Utah 15. Portland Phoenix will not finish above Denver in the west as long as Jokic and Jamal avoid season ending injuries. Nobody should realistically look at Phoenix with KD and Beal combined likely missing 40+ games total and think top 4 in the west. Further, Wolves had the stars align with Towns missing only 20 games yet still couldn't win more than Denver last year. Same with Kyrie only missing 24 games for the Mavs. While I squarely have the Wolves and Mavs in the top 4, one of Minny or Dallas will finish behind Denver as either Towns or Kyrie are going to miss 30-40 games this year.
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Post by nuggetshipster on Aug 6, 2024 7:42:27 GMT -5
Like Nuggets fans seriously expect Nuggets to be better than everyone else while spending way less money than every other contender. Its insane
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Post by nuggetshipster on Aug 6, 2024 7:43:38 GMT -5
Murray and Jokic should be the reason we go DEEP into the tax. Not the reason we dont. Because we will be solid without doing it. Thanks to those two. But f**k man they deserve better. They deserve a fanbase that demand better. They deserve an GM and owner that is willing to spend what EVERY OTHER CONTENDER IS SPENDING.
We arent smarter than everyone else, we are just cheaper. Accept this
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Post by nuggetshipster on Aug 6, 2024 7:47:36 GMT -5
And i still havent read the rule that says no 2nd apron team can sign players. We could have easily fixed backup PG and backup C while also keeping KCP. You lose the TMLE, which the Nuggets used to sign Saric. Despite the risk and the opinions of some, I think the Nuggets may have actually preferred Westbrook to Jones at backup PG. Calvin Booth is very much into size all over the court and Jones doesn’t fit with that philosophy. The team also wanted an injection of toughness and athleticism and pace and Westbrook provides those attributes more than Jones, notwithstanding Jones’ very good skill. Jokic also knows and likes Westbrook and that’s not an insignificant factor. Saric is cool enough. But he does not move the needle more than KCP. If he was so f***ing good why didnt we sign him the year before? KCP, WB and someone other than Saric > WB and Saric. Im not saying we are fucked. Im saying that we would be a better basketball team with KCP. I cant believe people argue against this. Its the exact same thing as last year when people tried to convince me PWat was actually a BETTER PLAYER THAN BB
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Post by wicked3line on Aug 6, 2024 8:00:10 GMT -5
Murray and Jokic should be the reason we go DEEP into the tax. Not the reason we dont. Because we will be solid without doing it. Thanks to those two. But f**k man they deserve better. They deserve a fanbase that demand better. They deserve an GM and owner that is willing to spend what EVERY OTHER CONTENDER IS SPENDING. We arent smarter than everyone else, we are just cheaper. Accept this Both the Wolves and Suns are in 2nd apron death territory. The Suns are very likley finishing outside of top 5 (below Denver) as thinking KD and Beal will stay healthy is laughable. Wolves already lost Kyle Anderson which is not being discussed enough since he always helped soften the blow when Towns misses his usual 20-40 games. Wolves could easily regress if/when Towns misses games and Naz Reid is forced into the lineup as Garza as a backup big makes Zeke look like an All-Star. Essentially, neither the Suns or Wolves (especially the Suns) are lock to finish above Denver despite having a higher salary. Further its not like Denver has minimal salary on the books as they are sitting with the 7th highest active salary in the league after spending on Saric and Westbrook.
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Post by wicked3line on Aug 6, 2024 8:12:29 GMT -5
You lose the TMLE, which the Nuggets used to sign Saric. Despite the risk and the opinions of some, I think the Nuggets may have actually preferred Westbrook to Jones at backup PG. Calvin Booth is very much into size all over the court and Jones doesn’t fit with that philosophy. The team also wanted an injection of toughness and athleticism and pace and Westbrook provides those attributes more than Jones, notwithstanding Jones’ very good skill. Jokic also knows and likes Westbrook and that’s not an insignificant factor. Saric is cool enough. But he does not move the needle more than KCP. If he was so f***ing good why didnt we sign him the year before? KCP, WB and someone other than Saric > WB and Saric. Im not saying we are fucked. Im saying that we would be a better basketball team with KCP. I cant believe people argue against this. Its the exact same thing as last year when people tried to convince me PWat was actually a BETTER PLAYER THAN BB Nobody is saying they wouldn't have welcomed KCP back at say $10-12 mil/year but NOT at $23 mil/year, especially when he has obviously started slipping backwards. Between CB and Watson Denver will not lose a step on the defensive side (both guarded Edwards better than KCP). Since most of what KCP brought Denver was on the defensive side, they won't skip a beat there without Pope. Sure Denver will lose a little perimeter shooting with CB and Strawther (although gaining slashing/scoring in the paint) but KCP offensive production has fallen as well. Given that reality, you continue to overrate an aging KCP that is on the downswing with production thinking 2022-2023 KCP still exists (he doesn't as seen by his mediocre playoff production). On the flip side you also continue to underrate Saric as though Denver can continue tossing out Zeke and Jordan as backup bigs without driving Jokic into the ground! Dude, you obviously want to take the negative route with KCP walking out the door while complaining about Saric and Westbrook, but you are not convincing anybody that KCP was the glue holding this team together as that is absurd.
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Post by JB on Aug 6, 2024 10:23:22 GMT -5
in game 7 against the Wolves, KCP played 40 minutes and posted a Wilson Chandlerian 5 points on 2-7 shooting. he shot 32% from 3 during the entire playoffs.
I love Pope, but he's 32 and declining. he's not worth getting locked into the 2nd apron over. you could even argue this is a blessing in disguise now that Malone is compelled to give real rotation minutes to Strawther and now we're going to have more versatility at the SG spot.
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