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Post by freakns on May 5, 2024 14:24:20 GMT -5
Jamal had ZERO points at half time and played ZERO defense in the second half. How on Earth was Jokic a bigger problem in that loss? We were winning at half. Murray in the 2nd half scored 17 on 6-9 shooting. Go rewatch the 2nd half. Watch every possession and then come back and tell me Murray was any worse defensively than Jokic was. He wasn't. Jokics defense was a major reason why the Nuggets lost the game. 2 of the biggest buckets of the game came on offensive rebounds where Jokic didn't box out. If you want to give him a pass on the Reid one, fine. Kind of a freak play. But the Gobert one which was probably biggest play of the game...watch his effort. AG makes an all time great contest and Jokic shows zero effort/burst to get into rebounding position. He stays on the outside of the play. Jokic also just left the ball and gave Minnesota wide open 3s multiple times in the 2nd half. Like dude if nobody is behind you, you don't just leave the ball and let guys walk into open 3s lmao You guys just refuse to take your bias away. You keep judging Murray and Jokic on the same level when one isn't an All Star and the other is a top 15 all time player. Jokic should be held to the absolute highest standard. He was bad yesterday. He takes a ton of blame, as does Murray, as does KCP, etc. If Jokic plays a B+ game, they win that game. If Murray plays a B+ game, they still lose that game. they both sux ass in game 1. plus AG. KCP I dont blame cause he is physically incapable of guarding Ant. since start of playoffs, MPJ is the only one playing at certain level. Jokic is playing OK-ish, but no where near level he has played last post season. AG is hot and cold, had 3 brutally good games against Lakers, one so-so, but had 0 impact in this one and one loss against Lakers(one would argue his impact is directly corelated to the winning) but there is one guy in starting 5 who is playing below any acceptable level. we know he is dr Jekyll and mr Hyde, good player shows up in regular season, absolute beast in playoffs. but problem is Murray is not only not on his playoff level, he is below his regular season! Austin Reaves was looking like Scoitie Pippen while guarding him in first round. thats how bad Murray was. and I dont blame Jamal, he is obviously hurt. he isnt playing dumb, but is incapable of having any burst, for 6 games he is playing in one gear, not speeding up or slowing down. and it doesnt affect his shooting only, it affects his playmaking also. 2 man game is not functioning because of him. so while you dont judge Murray and Jokic on the same level, which is fair, you can't really compare Jamal with Reggie... you can compare him with Mitchell maybe? who is currently destroying Orlando, dragging that poor Cavs team alone to the next round. and Orlando has equally good defense as Minnesota. so it is fair to say that Murray is playing like s**t. this doesn't mean he is only one to be blamed, far from it. but he surely didn't do anything to help Nuggets win. |
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Post by jimijam28 on May 5, 2024 14:32:04 GMT -5
malone sucks- his offense is a one trick pony and the defense game plan was a joke in the 2nd halfp
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Post by passtheballquick on May 5, 2024 14:38:29 GMT -5
No matter how well Jokic plays, if Murray plays like this, we have 0% chances of beating T-pups. This team was always depending on Murray and not on Jokic. We've seen in the past how far Jokic can take this team without PO Jamal
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Post by Ring on May 5, 2024 15:14:22 GMT -5
No matter how well Jokic plays, if Murray plays like this, we have 0% chances of beating T-pups. This team was always depending on Murray and not on Jokic. We've seen in the past how far Jokic can take this team without PO Jamal Maybe in the series but they easily win that game if Jokic plays to his typical standards. If he cuts his turnovers in half they probably win on that alone. |
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Post by passtheballquick on May 5, 2024 16:10:42 GMT -5
No matter how well Jokic plays, if Murray plays like this, we have 0% chances of beating T-pups. This team was always depending on Murray and not on Jokic. We've seen in the past how far Jokic can take this team without PO Jamal Maybe in the series but they easily win that game if Jokic plays to his typical standards. If he cuts his turnovers in half they probably win on that alone. Maybe but in general we can't win this series with Jamal shooting this poorly. If he picks up his game we will win it, it's not too late. Despite Jokic not playing at his best, he still bumped up all his numbers comparing to RS like scoring and assists by 10% and rebounding by over 20%. Jamal is flat out the same on rebounding and assists and 5% increase in scoring. Also Jokic was/is playing against 2 of top 3 league best defenders whereas Jamal will never see easier matchaps than Dlo/AR |
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Post by GBG on May 5, 2024 16:19:56 GMT -5
No matter how well Jokic plays, if Murray plays like this, we have 0% chances of beating T-pups. This team was always depending on Murray and not on Jokic. We've seen in the past how far Jokic can take this team without PO Jamal Maybe in the series but they easily win that game if Jokic plays to his typical standards. If he cuts his turnovers in half they probably win on that alone. While likely true, you tend to grade our two best players on a curve, basing your evaluation of them as compared to their best case A-games that we’ve seen. IMO, even Jokic’s worst games are better and more impactful than Murray’s average game. And while Murray did hit 6-9 shots in the second half last night, it came at the cost of his defense, which was poor and allowed lots of penetration and weakly contested shots. Murray had a D+ game and Jokic a C+ game, IMO. Neither had good games, but Murray is furthest away from being the best he can be. Playoff Murray has only been sporadic, winning two games in the clutch against the Lakers, but being mediocre at best in all but a couple quarters in six playoff games. Jokic has been good, but could and would be better if Murray could play better. Without both playing up to their standards of the past, we will lose this series, no doubt. They need to play at the level to which we had become accustomed. |
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Post by Ring on May 5, 2024 16:41:10 GMT -5
Maybe in the series but they easily win that game if Jokic plays to his typical standards. If he cuts his turnovers in half they probably win on that alone. While likely true, you tend to grade our two best players on a curve, basing your evaluation of them as compared to their best case A-games that we’ve seen. IMO, even Jokic’s worst games are better and more impactful than Murray’s average game. And while Murray did hit 6-9 shots in the second half last night, it came at the cost of his defense, which was poor and allowed lots of penetration and weakly contested shots. Murray had a D+ game and Jokic a C+ game, IMO. Neither had good games, but Murray is furthest away from being the best he can be. Playoff Murray has only been sporadic, winning two games in the clutch against the Lakers, but being mediocre at best in all but a couple quarters in six playoff games. Jokic has been good, but could and would be better if Murray could play better. Without both playing up to their standards of the past, we will lose this series, no doubt. They need to play at the level to which we had become accustomed. A Jokic A+ game can mitigate a Murray C+ game though. A Murray A+ game can't mitigate a Jokic C+ game. The top level that can get to is much different. Jokic can basically give you a 40/20/10 game. Murrays peak post bubble is probably like 35/10? If Murray actually is hurt, there's much more pressure on Jokic to actually be that guy too. If you know your teammate is banged up, one would think you'd be trying to do more to ease his work load. Jokic has yet to do that. His approach all playoffs long has been poor. Murray has just forced and missed shots. I'd much rather have that than someone who doesn't want to shoot early in games. Jokic needs to post up Gobert on the first possession tomorrow. Don't care if he misses. It has to be Jokic attacking Gobert. Nuggets have to set the physicality tone from the jump tomorrow. Also I don't think you need an A+ Murray to win this series. An A+ Jokic, a B Murray and you win the series as long as a few other guys play well. Neither are close to those marks though. |
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Post by JB on May 5, 2024 16:44:32 GMT -5
GBG you've been banging the Murray is hurt drum for basically the entirety of the playoff run, and are now saying he needs to play to the level we're accustomed to. it doesn't work like that.
Jokic needs to pick up the slack if Jamal can only play well in spurts, bottom line. he's the 3xMVP, and he has a #2 in Porter Jr that is playing the best basketball of his career. he needs to tell Jamal to coast until crunch time if he's physically limited and be more assertive offensively.
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Post by passtheballquick on May 5, 2024 16:58:37 GMT -5
GBG you've been banging the Murray is hurt drum for basically the entirety of the playoff run, and are now saying he needs to play to the level we're accustomed to. it doesn't work like that. Jokic needs to pick up the slack if Jamal can only play well in spurts, bottom line. he's the 3xMVP, and he has a #2 in Porter Jr that is playing the best basketball of his career. he needs to tell Jamal to coast until crunch time if he's physically limited and be more assertive offensively. Denver can't win this series with Murray coasting. He's a negative asset on defense and Nuggets need his high efficient scoring to cover his 40mins of bad defense on the court. If he's hurt and can't play at his highest level we already lost this series |
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2024 17:37:48 GMT -5
The slow starts are because Jamal Murray misses 4 or 5 shots
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2024 17:39:15 GMT -5
I think Malone should experiment in game 2 and start Watson in place of KCP at shooting guard. Watson is 6'7" and his length could bother Edwards
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Post by GBG on May 5, 2024 17:48:53 GMT -5
GBG you've been banging the Murray is hurt drum for basically the entirety of the playoff run, and are now saying he needs to play to the level we're accustomed to. it doesn't work like that. Jokic needs to pick up the slack if Jamal can only play well in spurts, bottom line. he's the 3xMVP, and he has a #2 in Porter Jr that is playing the best basketball of his career. he needs to tell Jamal to coast until crunch time if he's physically limited and be more assertive offensively. I didn't say Murray is capable of playing to that elite level right now, given his injury, and if he doesn’t get better physically we are losing this series. That’s the unfortunate reality, Minny is too good to defeat them four times in next six games with Jamal playing on 1 1/2 legs, which affects his cuts, bursts to basket, lift on his jumpers, and defensive mobility. That Murray is not Playoff Murray. Jokic is generally playing to his level in postseason. And it’s too much to ask him to play above his established level against Minny’s frontline. He had a C+ game last night, so he can play better, but part of the reason he didn’t play better is that Batman was missing his Robin for most of the game. Jokic is a great player but the roster is structured so that both he and Murray need to click to win this series and have any shot at a repeat. Only MPJ can make up for offensive struggles by those two, and maybe he will, but I doubt it. |
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aepps22
Monte Towe Benchwarmer
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Post by aepps22 on May 5, 2024 19:53:04 GMT -5
The defense has to be better from Jokic to Murray. Even at their current offensive performance and struggles they were up several times by 8. For all the media's attention on Ant, the lapses on Conley (Murray) and Kat kept them in the game for Ant and Reid to take advantage. We need the defense that showed up in the first half to show up all game. I believe this team has it in them.
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Post by duh88 on May 5, 2024 20:51:16 GMT -5
I think Malone should experiment in game 2 and start Watson in place of KCP at shooting guard. Watson is 6'7" and his length could bother Edwards This is what I’ve said from the start. PWat had 5 mins last game - that was a big reason why we lost. When Utah pulled ahead 3-1, Malone finally put Grant into the starting lineup for defense, and Utah was toast. PWat needs to be in there to stop edwards - and I hope this adjustment happens before minny goes up 3-1. |
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Post by jimijam28 on May 5, 2024 21:47:08 GMT -5
Is Zeke playing
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Post by TNF on May 5, 2024 21:58:00 GMT -5
Lots of good discussion. Our team is facing their first real adversity in two years. Will they act like champions, including injury issues, or will they fold and head to Cancun?
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Post by Dante on May 5, 2024 22:33:00 GMT -5
Main point and big picture is that 99% of our payroll goes to our starting 5. 2 of them on the max deals are injury prone players. If they are not healthy and performing up to the level we have nothing to hope for long term. So far MPJ has been our second best player. If Booth wanted to prolong our championship window then he should have invested in veteran backup PG and Center to give Jokic and Jamal load manage during the regular season so they can perform at their best come playoff time. I have never seen a "dynasty" with bunch of rookies on the bench and the coach that is known for not trusting the rookies at all. Even if we win it all this year, long term our starters will be corpses and i don't see the path of "dynasty" with Zeke, Strawther, CB, Watson. None of them has a skillset of lets say Bones. We don't have a scorer, specialist. We draft players that play hard on defense, that are good locker room guys and fit in the system. But reality is is that there is no system once Jokic goes to bench. As much as we hated on uncle Jeff, those players have huge role and can give you stable and steady production in those 5-7 minutes that they get in the playoffs.
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Post by duh88 on May 5, 2024 22:39:22 GMT -5
PS Benny - adopting the Knicks as my second team during these playoffs!
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Post by mnwild1128 on May 5, 2024 22:52:39 GMT -5
We were winning at half. Murray in the 2nd half scored 17 on 6-9 shooting. Go rewatch the 2nd half. Watch every possession and then come back and tell me Murray was any worse defensively than Jokic was. He wasn't. Jokics defense was a major reason why the Nuggets lost the game. 2 of the biggest buckets of the game came on offensive rebounds where Jokic didn't box out. If you want to give him a pass on the Reid one, fine. Kind of a freak play. But the Gobert one which was probably biggest play of the game...watch his effort. AG makes an all time great contest and Jokic shows zero effort/burst to get into rebounding position. He stays on the outside of the play. Jokic also just left the ball and gave Minnesota wide open 3s multiple times in the 2nd half. Like dude if nobody is behind you, you don't just leave the ball and let guys walk into open 3s lmao You guys just refuse to take your bias away. You keep judging Murray and Jokic on the same level when one isn't an All Star and the other is a top 15 all time player. Jokic should be held to the absolute highest standard. He was bad yesterday. He takes a ton of blame, as does Murray, as does KCP, etc. If Jokic plays a B+ game, they win that game. If Murray plays a B+ game, they still lose that game. they both sux ass in game 1. plus AG. KCP I dont blame cause he is physically incapable of guarding Ant. since start of playoffs, MPJ is the only one playing at certain level. Jokic is playing OK-ish, but no where near level he has played last post season. AG is hot and cold, had 3 brutally good games against Lakers, one so-so, but had 0 impact in this one and one loss against Lakers(one would argue his impact is directly corelated to the winning) but there is one guy in starting 5 who is playing below any acceptable level. we know he is dr Jekyll and mr Hyde, good player shows up in regular season, absolute beast in playoffs. but problem is Murray is not only not on his playoff level, he is below his regular season! Austin Reaves was looking like Scoitie Pippen while guarding him in first round. thats how bad Murray was. and I dont blame Jamal, he is obviously hurt. he isnt playing dumb, but is incapable of having any burst, for 6 games he is playing in one gear, not speeding up or slowing down. and it doesnt affect his shooting only, it affects his playmaking also. 2 man game is not functioning because of him. so while you dont judge Murray and Jokic on the same level, which is fair, you can't really compare Jamal with Reggie... you can compare him with Mitchell maybe? who is currently destroying Orlando, dragging that poor Cavs team alone to the next round. and Orlando has equally good defense as Minnesota. so it is fair to say that Murray is playing like s**t. this doesn't mean he is only one to be blamed, far from it. but he surely didn't do anything to help Nuggets win. Orlando's defense is not equally as good as Minnys. For regular season context (which MN is playing D even better in playoffs than regular season), the rating difference between the wolves #1 defense and the leagues #2 defense is the same difference gap between the #2 rated defense and the #10 rated defense. They are not elite, they had a historic type defense. Especially when factoring in the spread offensive era we are currently in. They held opponents to an absurd amount of sub 100 point games. A Had several 100's on the nose. They had a TON of games where teams shot all of sub 40% fg, sub 30% from three. It was some of the craziest stuff i have seen since the 2004 pistons. That is the class of D they were playing at. |
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Post by freakns on May 6, 2024 2:43:48 GMT -5
we need to win not only this game, but this series.
the amount of hate and disrespect Stephen A and fat Perk have for Nuggets?! omg. I dont watch shitty sport shows, but for some reason Stephen A, Wilburn and fat Perk jump on my screen, and man o man, those rats cant wait to see Nuggets out. so cmon buys, win this s**t, let 'em suffer!
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