|
Post by somborshuffle on Jun 17, 2024 22:31:13 GMT -5
Tatum is the best player on a championship team and also has another finals appearance to boot.
Embiid will have to make it past the 2nd rnd of the playoffs if he wants to be considered a better player.
Taking 30+ shots and 20 FTs every time you play the Wizards or Pistons in the regular season doesn't make you a top 5-8 player if what you value is the ability to win when it matters.
|
|
|
Post by inyourmind on Jun 17, 2024 22:33:37 GMT -5
Tatum is up and down in the playoffs but he's a top 10 player in the league. He'll wind up better than Melo. Rich man comparisons don't even work because they have 2 players who are drastically better than Gallo/Lawson etc. Gaps to wide for the rich man's comparison. Celtics get underrated. Tatum/Brown's potential to meltdown in any given game lowers there ceiling but at their best it's a pretty great team. Tons of depth and lots of talent. Jokic, Luka, Giannis, Embiid, Steph, Lebron, Shai, Brunson are the clear top 8 in the NBA to me. After that it gets tricky but I think I'd still take AD/KD over Tatum. Jaylen Brown has to jump Tatum too after both Finals runs they've had. He's been better each Finals and has the Finals MVP. Yeah if you ignore avaibility than I get it and certainly can make an argument for it. If you put an emphasis on just the finals where Tatum didn't shoot well than I think you also can make a case. Tatum has some big moments in the playoffs as well tho and os starting to stack the achievements. Like he'll get overrated for sure when people look back in 10 years. He's going to build himself a career that's certainly top 10 player in the league caliber.
|
|
|
Post by GBG on Jun 17, 2024 22:34:18 GMT -5
Laughable take. NBA is about to sign record rights deals with NBC, ESPN, and Amazon. Possibly TNT gets a slice. Total rights will double the $2.7 billion received in the last cycle. NBA salary cap will rise by 10% a year throughout the life of these rights deals, and the NBA franchises will still have record profitability even with RSN revenues withering away. The league has never been in better shape under Silver. You can hate the aesthetics, but it’s a thriving business. That's only because cable is dead and the only thing that can keep subscribers is live sports, hence why they over-pay for all of the major sports leagues. Also to be completely transparent I don't really care about the business of the NBA because it doesn't affect my enjoyment of the game/the Nuggets. I do feel like the on-court product is the worst it's been in an extremely long time. 3 point era really has hurt the game IMO. Believe me, I know. I used to analyze the industry for a living. The rights $$$ are also nuts, but Comcast (owner of NBC) and Disney (owner of ESPN/ABC) have no choice since the streamers like Amazon and Netflix could drive them to irrelevancy. Warner Brothers Discovery (owner of TNT) got outbid but has matching rights. Trouble is they’re saddled with $39.5 billion of debt. So they likely can only afford college football and French Open tennis rights, lol.
|
|
|
Post by Ring on Jun 17, 2024 22:36:17 GMT -5
Tatum is the best player on a championship team and also has another finals appearance to boot. Embiid will have to make it past the 2nd rnd of the playoffs if he wants to be considered a better player. Taking 30+ shots and 20 FTs every time you play the Wizards or Pistons in the regular season doesn't make you a top 5-8 player if what you value is the ability to win when it matters. Jayson Tatum is nowhere near the caliber player that Joel Embiid is, and that is exactly the problem with the rings argument. Jaylen Brown is also nowhere near the caliber player that Joel Embiid is. Embiid is at the absolute worst the 4th best player in the NBA.
|
|
|
Post by Ring on Jun 17, 2024 22:37:38 GMT -5
That's only because cable is dead and the only thing that can keep subscribers is live sports, hence why they over-pay for all of the major sports leagues. Also to be completely transparent I don't really care about the business of the NBA because it doesn't affect my enjoyment of the game/the Nuggets. I do feel like the on-court product is the worst it's been in an extremely long time. 3 point era really has hurt the game IMO. Believe me, I know. I used to analyze the industry for a living. The rights $$$ are also nuts, but Comcast (owner of NBC) and Disney (owner of ESPN/ABC) have no choice since the streamers like Amazon and Netflix could drive them to irrelevancy. Warner Brothers Discovery (owner of TNT) got outbid but has matching rights. Trouble is they’re saddled with $39.5 billion of debt. Well that's because Zaslav is an arrogant douche and has continually made really poor deals. And that has now cost us Inside the NBA which is really the backbone of the NBA IMO as Barkley has went on record and said no matter what happens next year is his last year and he's irreplaceable on that show and in that role. Bottom line, David Zaslav sucks. NBA on NBC again will be awesome though.
|
|
|
Post by JB on Jun 17, 2024 22:39:10 GMT -5
Tatum is the best player on a championship team and also has another finals appearance to boot. Embiid will have to make it past the 2nd rnd of the playoffs if he wants to be considered a better player. Taking 30+ shots and 20 FTs every time you play the Wizards or Pistons in the regular season doesn't make you a top 5-8 player if what you value is the ability to win when it matters. Jayson Tatum is nowhere near the caliber player that Joel Embiid is, and that is exactly the problem with the rings argument. Ringz, Erneh Embiid does need to stop crashing out of the regular season chasing personal accolades. but he's clearly a tier above Tatum lmao
|
|
|
Post by GBG on Jun 17, 2024 22:39:16 GMT -5
Believe me, I know. I used to analyze the industry for a living. The rights $$$ are also nuts, but Comcast (owner of NBC) and Disney (owner of ESPN/ABC) have no choice since the streamers like Amazon and Netflix could drive them to irrelevancy. Warner Brothers Discovery (owner of TNT) got outbid but has matching rights. Trouble is they’re saddled with $39.5 billion of debt. Well that's because Zaslav is an arrogant douche and has continually made really poor deals. And that has now cost us Inside the NBA which is really the backbone of the NBA IMO as Barkley has went on record and said no matter what happens next year is his last year and he's irreplaceable on that show and in that role. Bottom line, David Zaslav sucks. NBA on NBC again will be awesome though. He is definitely overpaid, but John Malone loves him. He’s in his 80’s now, so Malone might be losing touch.
|
|
|
Post by Ring on Jun 17, 2024 22:42:07 GMT -5
Jayson Tatum is nowhere near the caliber player that Joel Embiid is, and that is exactly the problem with the rings argument. Ringz, Erneh Embiid does need to stop crashing out of the regular season chasing personal accolades. but he's clearly a tier above Tatum lmao Embiid will never be able to stay injury free because of his size. I don't think people realize just how big he is. 300 pounds at 7'2. He's legitimately huge. Towers over Jokic who is like top .1% sized human on Earth. But yeah...Embiid should really play 50 games in the regular season and go all out for the playoffs. His body is never going to allow him to play 90 games which is required for a championship run.
|
|
|
Post by GBG on Jun 17, 2024 22:43:02 GMT -5
I pick the Knicks for the 2025 NBA Title, assuming they stay healthy throughout the season and postseason. Julius Randle on postgame show is the key to that.
|
|
|
Post by LotharBraunBrownBryant on Jun 17, 2024 23:07:42 GMT -5
glad to see the anti-Semite take the L.
|
|
|
Post by somborshuffle on Jun 17, 2024 23:18:22 GMT -5
I think you're all underestimating just how awful Embiid is in the playoffs. If he's not being inefficient on offense he's turning the ball over 8+ times.
The dude is the worst playoff performer of any regular season superstar in history. Worse than Harden.
If you value the playoffs above the regular season then Embiid isn't close to Tatum.
|
|
|
Post by JB on Jun 17, 2024 23:21:30 GMT -5
Tatum shot 50%+ exactly three times in the entire playoff run and 39% in the Finals
|
|
|
Post by famicommander on Jun 17, 2024 23:29:58 GMT -5
Ringz, Erneh Embiid does need to stop crashing out of the regular season chasing personal accolades. but he's clearly a tier above Tatum lmao Embiid will never be able to stay injury free because of his size. I don't think people realize just how big he is. 300 pounds at 7'2. He's legitimately huge. Towers over Jokic who is like top .1% sized human on Earth. But yeah...Embiid should really play 50 games in the regular season and go all out for the playoffs. His body is never going to allow him to play 90 games which is required for a championship run. 50 games? He couldn't even manage 40 this year. If he wants a chance at staying healthy he needs to: -drop significant amounts of weight. this will decrease the impact on his body and improve his endurance, which will decrease his fatigue, which will improve his technique and decrease his injury chances. -stop flopping all the damn time. pretty simple, people can't fall on your knee if you're not already lying on the ground crying for no reason. -stop reinserting himself into blowouts chasing his statline -stop choosing the games he plays in based on how much he thinks he can score on them rather than based on his actual health (his own teammate called him out publicly for doing this) But honestly? It's probably too late for that. Someone should've told him all this 10 years ago. He'll turn 31 before the playoffs start next year and he's been hurt badly every year since he was 18 years old. Chances are it's just going to keep happening more frequently as he ages.
|
|
|
Post by famicommander on Jun 17, 2024 23:32:38 GMT -5
Also:
Luka would rather put up 25 shots in a loss than 16 shots in a win.
|
|
|
Post by inyourmind on Jun 17, 2024 23:54:17 GMT -5
Tatum has played 70+ games in 3 straight seasons. Finishing top 6 in MVP voting every year and made 1st team All-NBA all 3 years. Tons of highs and lows in the playoffs.
Just a strange player to rank. He got outplayed by Brown in the Finals and arguably the playoffs. He still put up 25/10/6 for the entire run. Just couldn't hit a 3 so shot like s**t.
I think it comes down to how much you value the entire picture vs emphasizing the finals performance. Like Embiid is better 100% but he can't play a full season + 4 rounds. He has his own ugly moments in the playoffs as well. Tatum probably doesn't get enough credit for his durability and ability to act as a 1st option for huge chunks of the season.
|
|
|
Post by nuggetshipster on Jun 18, 2024 5:23:45 GMT -5
Celtics have a great team, i see no point in ranking them. Both are great, humble, smart and hungry players
Brown had an amazing series so this time it was him
|
|
|
Post by scooter on Jun 18, 2024 11:35:56 GMT -5
Tatum has played 70+ games in 3 straight seasons. Finishing top 6 in MVP voting every year and made 1st team All-NBA all 3 years. Tons of highs and lows in the playoffs. Just a strange player to rank. He got outplayed by Brown in the Finals and arguably the playoffs. He still put up 25/10/6 for the entire run. Just couldn't hit a 3 so shot like s**t. I think it comes down to how much you value the entire picture vs emphasizing the finals performance. Like Embiid is better 100% but he can't play a full season + 4 rounds. He has his own ugly moments in the playoffs as well. Tatum probably doesn't get enough credit for his durability and ability to act as a 1st option for huge chunks of the season. Jrue Holiday probably outplayed him also, just with a smaller offensive role. I absolutely agree with the “strange player” part. Tatum is good at everything, but isn’t great at anything. To be fair, he’s only 26 and could still get better given his durability and natural athleticism.
|
|
|
Post by JB on Jun 18, 2024 13:26:01 GMT -5
like I alluded to earlier, players of Tatum and Brown's caliber are "attainable" second-tier stars for the Nuggets post-Jokic, because we're not striking gold again (no pun intended).
we should be very happy of the precedent being set. this is arguably the first time in 2 freaking decades a team without a top 6 superduperstar won a championship.
|
|
|
Post by inyourmind on Jun 18, 2024 14:20:10 GMT -5
Tatum has played 70+ games in 3 straight seasons. Finishing top 6 in MVP voting every year and made 1st team All-NBA all 3 years. Tons of highs and lows in the playoffs. Just a strange player to rank. He got outplayed by Brown in the Finals and arguably the playoffs. He still put up 25/10/6 for the entire run. Just couldn't hit a 3 so shot like s**t. I think it comes down to how much you value the entire picture vs emphasizing the finals performance. Like Embiid is better 100% but he can't play a full season + 4 rounds. He has his own ugly moments in the playoffs as well. Tatum probably doesn't get enough credit for his durability and ability to act as a 1st option for huge chunks of the season. Jrue Holiday probably outplayed him also, just with a smaller offensive role. I absolutely agree with the “strange player” part. Tatum is good at everything, but isn’t great at anything. To be fair, he’s only 26 and could still get better given his durability and natural athleticism. Holiday is underrated. Absolute beast defensively and one of the matchups that would be tough for Denver. I'm guilty of it but yeah Tatum's all around game is underrated. You wouldn't realize it but he led the Celtics in PPG/RPG/APG for the entire run. Curious to see what he dies next year now. Has to sting knowing that if he just knocked down some 3's the narrative would be entirely different.
|
|
|
Post by passtheballquick on Jun 18, 2024 14:30:12 GMT -5
Boston will be the favorite again next year. BS knows what he's doing and JM is doing exactly what he's told to do. Although I had a huge respect for Brad Stevens I respect him even more now. Looking at relationship between Booth and Malone, I understand why BS went with no names of Ime Udoka and now Joe Mozzila as Boston coaches
|
|