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Post by game on Jun 5, 2023 10:50:49 GMT -5
Malone better be smarter than just saying "it's all effort". One, lol. You think the three previous losers were perfectly prepared and just didn't try too?
Second, much of what I saw was mental. And your effort guy you played way more than any game recently made a truck of mental errors in the second half.
I expected a punch. Now go get the next one. I'm making Jimmy and Bam win 1:1. I'm not leaving shooters.
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Post by Coach Sticky on Jun 5, 2023 10:52:12 GMT -5
f**k  He's been playing with Jokic for like 4-5 years now and didn't learn anything yet for real real just gotta passtheballquick |
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Post by JB on Jun 5, 2023 11:11:19 GMT -5
gotta love Jimmy changing course mid-shot because passing to the open guy under the basket is basketball 101
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Post by scooter on Jun 5, 2023 11:28:35 GMT -5
I tried telling NT that the Celtics with their shell shocked rookie head coach and ISO twin stars were a better match up than this Heat team, but you guys were too enamoured with the brand and regular season record I guess. We're still going to win, but this thing is going the distance now. I’ve kinda thought this — that the Heat are a difficult matchup unless too beat up/injured from playing so many postseason games starting with 2 play-in games. They don’t have anyone at Jokic’s best of the best level. But they have a lot of players who can all screen, move, dribble, pass and shoot, which gives them excellent floor spacing, and they’ll be unpredictable and run stuff which makes it very difficult to cover all of these re-locating perimeter players. They will get open shots against a Nuggets team that is far from great in terms of defensive speed and quickness. The Heat have a good chance of winning any game in which they hit a high percentage of their open shots. On the other end, they’ll give up size but we’ve seen many times that refs give an officiating advantage to smaller defenders matched up against bigger guys. We saw that again last night, with multiple no calls on Vincent whenever he was switched onto Jokic. Jokic would often score, but without a whistle to either put Jokic on the free throw line or to get Vincent in foul trouble. There was also a charge call when Vincent just fell down. If the refs are going to officiate like that (and all evidence is they will), the Heat can just use an easy to execute switch everything defense and live with Jokic scoring a lot of twos, but also occasionally losing his composure because he’s getting frustrated with the refs. I was extremely confident against the Lakers, because I thought the series was predictable in that Lebron would wear down and be forced to take low percentage outside shots just because his legs were gone (while Jeff Van Gundy on TV would keep saying “I don’t know why he’s not just putting his head down and driving to the basket”), and aside from he, Davis and Reeves, the rest of the team mostly sucks. Yes, the Celtics are often like the iso heavy Suns, and in addition the Celtics haven’t figured out how to prevent Jaylen Brown from just turning the ball over left and right in the playoffs. I’ve written many times on this board that the Nuggets frontcourt consists of a center and 2 PFs, something that runs counter to the modern NBA. This series is going to be an interesting but difficult test of the Nuggets’ big lineup against a team built on modern NBA principles. |
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Post by JB on Jun 5, 2023 11:42:21 GMT -5
Yes.
the Heat are dangerous because they are playing with house money right now - meaning win or lose they will be celebrated for their run which gives their role players a certain confidence which is a luxury teams burdened with championship expectations do not have. my biggest fear played out the first two games: Nuggets established dominance in G1 and promptly took their foot off the gas and underestimated the "fluke" 8th seed. this hubris would not have manifested against the Cs, considering they were the better regular season team.
anyway, I have not subscribed to rock's newsletter yet. the series is tied and we just have to win one in Miami and make this a best of 3 with 2 games left in Denver.
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Post by rock on Jun 5, 2023 11:55:41 GMT -5
Hurts man. We will never have a chance again I understand you've been a fan a lot longer than I, but would a true fan not have greater faith in their team when they make the NBA Finals (even if it will never happen again as you say!?) instead of throwing in the towel after one loss? I can only assume if Jokic, Murray and co were on here reading what you consistently put up, they wouldn't want you supporting them anyway and would ask for someone on here to ban you. It's 1-1 in the NBA Finals for christ sake and we have to put up with this sh*t. Maybe best you keep to yourself and your negativity so others can enjoy this unique experience? Just food for thought.. Hurts to read. Fair, but hurts. I love this team more than almost anything so when you get so close and fall short, the pain is unlike anything I’ve experienced. Fortunately I feel a little better today after sleeping it off but the realization of losing in the finals still stings. I’m sincerely sorry that my posts aren’t fun to read. I do not mean to annoy you. It’s pure venting. Just an outlet. Just my real emotions at the time. Honestly my main fear is now long term. Will this linger with me forever? I doubt it but I don’t know. I’ve gotten over all past nuggets losses. They hurt at the time but that eventually goes away. I pray this one does too. But I’ve never experience a finals loss before. And again I truly apologize. I love you all. I love this forum and being about to talk nuggets with you guys for over 20 years. |
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Post by scooter on Jun 5, 2023 12:13:49 GMT -5
I thought of another case of big guy/little guy ref bullshit from last night — the free throw line-up tussle where Lowry pushes Green all the way to the end line (Lowry has more low to the ground strength than anyone on the Nuggets other than Jokic) and the ref calls a foul on Green. I don’t have a very good memory so I can never keep track of these plays in my head but while watching the game it seems like there is at least one every couple of minutes. Even on the “clear path” foul against Jokic, replays showed that Adebayo (who appeared to be shaking his head no to indicate he didn’t want a pass) had a handful of Jokic jersey on Jokic’s chest, so it really amounted to fouls on both of them but led to 2 made free throws and the ball and I think the Heat scored on that possession. There was a lot of that sort of thing in that game — it seemed really poorly officiated. But since we have seen so much ref bias on little guy vs. big guy for at least a couple of years now, I worry that that general trend will continue to some extent in this series.
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Post by duh88 on Jun 5, 2023 14:42:48 GMT -5
Jesus - sick of the pussy takes here.
Miami exhausts you - constant screening, passing to the open guy, etc. You have to keep up, and we didn’t do that last night.
Agreed on going 1-on-1 with butler and bam - push those two into perimeter shots anyways.
This gameplan isn’t hard. Relax all.
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Post by jimijam28 on Jun 5, 2023 14:44:57 GMT -5
Drama queens, sticky did this
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Post by inyourmind on Jun 5, 2023 15:23:25 GMT -5
I have no idea what the Celtics have to do with the Heat now. Nothing I've seen changes anything. If anything I'm super thankful we have HC because if guys are going to disappoint we want that game 7 at home. Pretty sure most of us said that if we couldn't beat the Heat we likely wouldn't beat Boston either. If KCP/MPJ are going to play like that we'd have a tough time beating alot of teams honestly. Nuggets were cheating off shooters and gave Miami A++ looks from deep .. that's not a good recipe vs anybody and yet it was still very close. Also looks like Butler isn't 100% right now. Tatum is a rollercoaster. You can get a superstar series from him or a choke job.
Last game it was clear the moment was to big for Denver. It was just a parade of little mistakes. Cheating off shooters. Not taking advantage of your offensive possessions like they did in game 1. They looked like a team who haven't been there before. Even the frustration with the foul calls. Nothing from a basketball stand point made it look like they were outmatched. Nothing the Heat did isn't something the Nuggets can't deal with it. I'm not going to worry until I see it again than yeah it becomes concerning. If the Nuggets just contested more shots and got a little more out of MPJ it's a W. That's not an unrealistic ask. It's not a tough ask for KCP to be better than Facu.
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Post by inyourmind on Jun 5, 2023 15:55:49 GMT -5
What's crazy is the Nuggets had a good offensive game. They shot 52/39/86 across the board. Shot waay better from 3 in game 2 than they did in game 1. Problem was they had a few more turnovers, less offensive rebounds, and outside of Jokic they didn't exploit anything as much as they should have That run in the 2nd quarter really bailed them out and Jokic wasn't even on the floor. It's the NBA finals. You gotta take every possession seriously. Nuggets had to many bad possessions and could have had an even better offensive game than they already did. It was a prime spot for them to drop 120+ but they fell asleep as the wheel for stretches. Defensively they were a complete no show which is just not acceptable at this stage. It's different when the other team is just beating you .. but when your messing up your rotations, cheating, getting there late, not helping out at the right time it's just a mess. That wasn't Booker just going nuclear no matter the quality of look. It was Denver playing lazy/stupid/scared defensively.
All 5 of the Heat starters were +'s. All 5 of the Nuggets -'s. Not a single + player in our starting lineup. We can't lose that battle vs any team with this roster and be confident in a W. I think the Nuggets slow start in the 1st quarter is getting slept on as well. Nuggets got in a 11 point hole right out of the gates and the energy/effort didn't look like it was there at all. They just casually gave up the 7-0 start and looked cocky where Miami looked desperate. It doesn't matter how good a matchup is. It's still the NBA. You can't cruise to 4 wins in any series.
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Post by jimijam28 on Jun 5, 2023 16:00:07 GMT -5
They were cocky and the fans suck also
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Post by passtheballquick on Jun 5, 2023 16:34:07 GMT -5
We were up by 15 points in the second Q and we just let it go by lazy play. It's unacceptable from MPJ to be that bad and it's also unacceptable from KCP to make those stupid fouls on 3pt shots that costed us 9 points. Just flat embarrassing from both of those guys. If we don't win the chip and Malone survives as a coach, MPJ is traded 1000%
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Post by bignuggets on Jun 5, 2023 17:02:29 GMT -5
Agree about 1 on 1 too. Butler is a great player, but he isn’t some crazy shooter like Booker. He’s not as explosive as Anthony Edwards.
Stop cheating off players especially since they can almost all hit 3s. It was just dumb.
I wanna say KCP has been the 2nd most consistent player during this run and he just played poorly.
Game 3 will be fun, but damn I’m nervous.
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Post by scooter on Jun 5, 2023 20:58:32 GMT -5
If the Nuggets just contested more shots and got a little more out of MPJ it's a W. That's not an unrealistic ask. My concern is that the Heat are getting open threes because of roster construction/matchup issues that go beyond just “try harder to contest shots.” If this was the Warriors vs. the Knicks, would people expect Julius Randle to guard Curry (as in “just try harder”)? This Heat team is a variation on the Warriors team that won the title last year, except even more guard heavy because unlike Wiggins, Martin is really a SG. Most of the time, its Adebayo surrounded by 4 SGs, all of whom are good three point shooters and most of whom can operate as either a screener or ballhandler and can dribble, pass and shoot. This — what some people insist on calling “small ball” — is actually modern, winning NBA stuff. The Warriors won the title last year with their “small ball.” The Heat are now 3 wins away from winning a title (having beaten the Bucks, Knicks and Celtics) with so-called “small ball.” I tend to believe this formula — having skilled, mobile players all over the court — is winning basketball and we are seeing the smartest organizations, like the Warriors and Heat, commit to it. Porter and Gordon are old school PFs — or even small ball centers — in terms of their size. They are not designed to chase guards around the perimeter all game. The Nuggets have some advantages from size, but also this disadvantage, which cannot be eliminated by cajoling guys to “try harder.” Porter cannot shadow a guard the way Mikal Bridges can. Trying harder won’t completely change that. So I think the Nuggets-Heat is really another matchup (like the Finals last year) between a “modern NBA team” and a more traditional NBA team. |
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Post by AbdulJabber on Jun 5, 2023 21:03:29 GMT -5
Yes. the Heat are dangerous because they are playing with house money right now - meaning win or lose they will be celebrated for their run which gives their role players a certain confidence which is a luxury teams burdened with championship expectations do not have. my biggest fear played out the first two games: Nuggets established dominance in G1 and promptly took their foot off the gas and underestimated the "fluke" 8th seed. this hubris would not have manifested against the Cs, considering they were the better regular season team. anyway, I have not subscribed to rock's newsletter yet. the series is tied and we just have to win one in Miami and make this a best of 3 with 2 games left in Denver. I was thinking about the house money thing too. The Heat won 44 regular season games and lost game 1 of the play-in. This isn't the 97 Bulls. That's not to say it isn't a good team. Obviously they're better than their record, but teams also seem to be imploding. Jumped out 3-1 on the bucks without Giannis, 3-1 again on NY and 3-0 on the Celtics all on the road. Even some of the greatest teams of all time would have a hard time pulling that off. The Heat are definitely in a good headspace, where they understand they have to play like their life depends on it in order to win, but also being loose due to low expectations. While Malone has an aneurysm every time the Heat makes a 3, Spo is just calming his team down and making adjustments. |
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Post by rock on Jun 5, 2023 21:17:55 GMT -5
I wish we were playing the bucks, sixers or Celtics
Losing at least would have been more tolerable
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Post by JB on Jun 5, 2023 21:23:08 GMT -5
I wish we were playing the bucks, sixers or Celtics Losing at least would have been more tolerable this was not your position 6 days ago. |
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Post by LotharBraunBrownBryant on Jun 5, 2023 22:08:44 GMT -5
the Heat are a small guard-heavy team with a lot of shooters, but the Nuggets are also a really good shooting team, and our guys don't need to be as open on average because they're simply bigger. None of their guys can contest MPJ effectively from more than a step away, for example. If the Heat shoot *much* better than the Nuggets, yeah, they'll win the series. If our 3 point shooting is even close to where it should be relatively speaking, the paint scoring should make a huge difference in our favor.
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Post by inyourmind on Jun 5, 2023 22:37:27 GMT -5
If the Nuggets just contested more shots and got a little more out of MPJ it's a W. That's not an unrealistic ask. My concern is that the Heat are getting open threes because of roster construction/matchup issues that go beyond just “try harder to contest shots.” If this was the Warriors vs. the Knicks, would people expect Julius Randle to guard Curry (as in “just try harder”)? This Heat team is a variation on the Warriors team that won the title last year, except even more guard heavy because unlike Wiggins, Martin is really a SG. Most of the time, its Adebayo surrounded by 4 SGs, all of whom are good three point shooters and most of whom can operate as either a screener or ballhandler and can dribble, pass and shoot. This — what some people insist on calling “small ball” — is actually modern, winning NBA stuff. The Warriors won the title last year with their “small ball.” The Heat are now 3 wins away from winning a title (having beaten the Bucks, Knicks and Celtics) with so-called “small ball.” I tend to believe this formula — having skilled, mobile players all over the court — is winning basketball and we are seeing the smartest organizations, like the Warriors and Heat, commit to it. Porter and Gordon are old school PFs — or even small ball centers — in terms of their size. They are not designed to chase guards around the perimeter all game. The Nuggets have some advantages from size, but also this disadvantage, which cannot be eliminated by cajoling guys to “try harder.” Porter cannot shadow a guard the way Mikal Bridges can. Trying harder won’t completely change that. So I think the Nuggets-Heat is really another matchup (like the Finals last year) between a “modern NBA team” and a more traditional NBA team. Honestly don't think I could disagree with something more across the board. Literally just watch the last game. How many open 3's were because the Nuggets cheated because they were afraid of Butler? You saw players come a few off how many times? How many times did they just miss a rotation? Miami are absolute killers at hitting open 3's and have been for alot of the postseason. Nuggets lucked out game 1 with them missing a bunch but didn't in game 2. The Miami offense isn't exposing the Nuggets defense. We've literally seen this all year. It's very inconsistent. Luckily in the playoffs that hasn't been the case. KCP has been a good defender the entire season and for a huge chunk of his career and yet he was by far the worse defender on the court. The Nuggets can't be overly concerned with Butler or protecting Jokic on 2's or whatever other mismatch they see and just give up open 3's. It doesn't matter what NBA your talking about you don't just create an insane amount of open 3's whenever you want and there's nothing the other team can do about it? They just don't have a chance to contest them? Even the Warriors in there prime still had guys contest shots more times than not. Comparing Miami to GS is also abit silly IMO. Gordon's best asset is literally his defensive versatility. Outside of his finishing/playoff of Jokic it's not really close. He's been an absolute beast defensively all playoffs. He can absolutely chase around guards and guard multiple positions. It's the reason we have him. It's a reason we've been so successful. If anything it's the opposite and he's a an old school PF/small ball 5 offensively but a weapon defensively which is why him hitting 3's is so huge for the offense or atleast making teams think twice. MPJ has shown huge improvements in atleast bothering players with his size. He was great on defense game 1 so what's the argument for that? Looked lost game 2. Mental lapses aren't anything new with him .. but he can absolutely do better game than game 2 as we've literally seen that before. Maybe it's not a "try harder" but it's truly bizarre to me that you think KCP/Gordon/MPJ etc. can't do better defensively than game 2. That it's a "modern NBA vs traditional NBA team" after 1 single loss. |
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