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Post by LotharBraunBrownBryant on May 5, 2023 11:00:16 GMT -5
I view MVP as an award that *usually* goes to the most deserving player when they have the strongest case, but *sometimes* goes to a player with a considerably weaker case for narrative reasons. Derrick Rose's MVP award, for example, went to a guy who didn't lead in any conventional or advanced stats (he was 2nd in VORP, and was top 10 in quite a few stats, but not #1 in anything) but whose team improved by a huge amount and who therefore was given a lot of credit even though the addition of guys like Boozer, Korver, and Ronnie Brewer as well as Thibs' defense vs Vinny's IDK-coaching were really what led to that team being so much better (almost every player on the Bulls had a significant positive net rating, even their end-of-bench guys, because their system was really good for racking up regular season Ws.) So I view the MVP as meaningful, and I view the DRose award as an error.
I don't think Embiid should have been MVP this year. But it was closer than it should have been because Joker coasted at the end of the year after the Memphis game, and Embiid pushed hard for the award. It wasn't a DRose-level "you only gave it to this guy so you didn't have to give it to Bron" error, but it was a weaker version of that error. Embiid wasn't as impactful of a player as Joker, but he was a legitimate close runner-up who got the narrative boost down the stretch and that was enough.
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Post by JB on May 5, 2023 11:36:38 GMT -5
I'm sure the city and those jersery's enhanced the mystique, but Rose's MVP season was truly electrifying. it truly felt like something amazing was going to happen every time he had the ball and I remain extremely happy the NBA recognized his talent before injuries robbed us of his prime.
while Bron on the other hand linked up with two other franchise players at a time when superteams weren't in vogue yet. so yeah, that season was a paradox. Bron was undoubtedly the better player but Rose was the more meaningful choice. I would argue even with hindsight it remains the right decision.
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Post by famicommander on May 5, 2023 12:41:32 GMT -5
"winning" vs throwing a 3 year childish tantrum backed by a full force media campaign and the race card I'll say it again: Embiid has no coherent case for winning this award. Over the course of the regular season Jokic was drastically better. It shouldn't have been close and nobody has yet presented anything close to a good argument in Embiid's favor. It's all "Jokic doesn't deserve 3 in a row" "It's Embiid's turn" "Jokic gets special treatment like Nash and Dirk because they're white" "but the eye test though!" Winning the MVP is winning the MVP. I dont think Embiid winning is very deserved, but the MVP have never really been about who is the best player. The two years Jokic won wasnt an exception (my opinion is that it was deserved). Either you think the MVP means you are the best player and you value it, or you think its a joke. Cant be selective depending on who wins You obsess over an award you dont respect? I don't respect the award or the people who vote for it and that didn't change the two years Jokic won it. That's just a broken clock being right twice a day. But people in the broad, general sense do respect the award and that respect that Jokic absolutely earned and deserved has been given to a ridiculously undeserving person. I don't respect the Oscars or even watch them but people in general do, and consequently it's annoying when someone like Denis Villeneuve gets snubbed for best director. Essentially what just happened is Jokic directed a masterpiece like Arrival or Blade Runner 2049 and the Oscar went to Embiid's Michael Bay Tranformers part 5 CGI disaster. We're living in an era with a generational talent right now. In real time we're witnessing the career of a modern day Jordan, LeBron, Bird, Magic, Wilt, Bill, Kareem, West unfold. Jokic is THAT dude. He's Jim Brown, Tom Brady, Wayne Gretzky, Willie Mays. And he's not getting his due because he's a Nugget, and because he's a humble guy, and because his "competition" is a gigantic manbaby who threw a three year hissyfit about it. You should've seen the media victory laps in this country when Embiid won it. Pablo Torre and Michael Wilbon practically cried tears of joy. |
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Post by famicommander on May 5, 2023 12:47:51 GMT -5
I view MVP as an award that *usually* goes to the most deserving player when they have the strongest case, but *sometimes* goes to a player with a considerably weaker case for narrative reasons. Derrick Rose's MVP award, for example, went to a guy who didn't lead in any conventional or advanced stats (he was 2nd in VORP, and was top 10 in quite a few stats, but not #1 in anything) but whose team improved by a huge amount and who therefore was given a lot of credit even though the addition of guys like Boozer, Korver, and Ronnie Brewer as well as Thibs' defense vs Vinny's IDK-coaching were really what led to that team being so much better (almost every player on the Bulls had a significant positive net rating, even their end-of-bench guys, because their system was really good for racking up regular season Ws.) So I view the MVP as meaningful, and I view the DRose award as an error. I don't think Embiid should have been MVP this year. But it was closer than it should have been because Joker coasted at the end of the year after the Memphis game, and Embiid pushed hard for the award. It wasn't a DRose-level "you only gave it to this guy so you didn't have to give it to Bron" error, but it was a weaker version of that error. Embiid wasn't as impactful of a player as Joker, but he was a legitimate close runner-up who got the narrative boost down the stretch and that was enough. I think this is several orders of magnitude worse than the Rose case. This is the worst MVP snub of my lifetime by a massive margin, in any of the four major sports. And the more years that go by, the worse it's going to look in hindsight. This is like if they'd given that one they gave to Rose to freaking Amar'e Stoudemire with a straight face. |
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Post by TNF on May 8, 2023 7:46:42 GMT -5
My prediction (and GOD I hope I'm wrong)
Jokic suspended one game.
Yes, it will make the difference in the series and the playoffs, but it will seem fair to the average casual and make the "owner" happy.
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Post by nuggetshipster on May 8, 2023 8:34:53 GMT -5
We definitely lose this series if Jokic sits one of our home games.
Imagine Malone and Booth getting fired and Murray traded because Jokic couldnt keep his cool.
There really are no excuse this season. Even an suspention like that
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Post by TNF on May 8, 2023 11:52:41 GMT -5
A newer thought is a minor suspension for Joker at the beginning of next season. No way the league does nothing, no matter the extenuating circumstances, so imo that would be best case scenario.
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Post by Coach Sticky on May 8, 2023 12:08:22 GMT -5
A newer thought is a minor suspension for Joker at the beginning of next season. No way the league does nothing, no matter the extenuating circumstances, so imo that would be best case scenario. How did they handle this in 1935 when all of us casuals were around? |
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Post by JB on May 8, 2023 12:23:31 GMT -5
the league is doing nothing. maybe a small fine that I hope Josh Kroenke pays in bags of pennies.
Silver suspending Jokic would engulf the playoffs in scandal and distract viewers from the product the NBA is pushing. from a capitalist standpoint, it's bad for business. he's not doing it. calm all.
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Post by Ring on May 8, 2023 12:30:57 GMT -5
the league is doing nothing. maybe a small fine that I hope Josh Kroenke pays in bags of pennies. Silver suspending Jokic would engulf the playoffs in scandal and distract viewers from the product the NBA is pushing. from a capitalist standpoint, it's bad for business. he's not doing it. calm all. Are you sure? Does the NBA care more about the on-court product or the off-court product? Almost all of the morning shows are talking about the incident, not one of the best offensive playoff games ever. Also reminder that Adam Silver is a loser. |
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Post by JB on May 8, 2023 12:42:12 GMT -5
E!SPN knows drama is better for ratings, but I really don't think the league office whats to Streisand effect one of their owners fighting with the 2xMVP during a game. they want it swept under the rug.
I mean, this is Vince McMahon WWE s**t lol.
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Post by GBG on May 8, 2023 12:47:44 GMT -5
the league is doing nothing. maybe a small fine that I hope Josh Kroenke pays in bags of pennies. Silver suspending Jokic would engulf the playoffs in scandal and distract viewers from the product the NBA is pushing. from a capitalist standpoint, it's bad for business. he's not doing it. calm all. Are you sure? Does the NBA care more about the on-court product or the off-court product? Almost all of the morning shows are talking about the incident, not one of the best offensive playoff games ever. Also reminder that Adam Silver is a loser. That’s what worries me. The peer pressure from media and NBA players (current and former) to show that players “assaulting” fans is to be stopped here and now, and nothing sends a message better than Jokic being suspended, is what could make Silver act in a way that, as Barkley said, is “stupid”. I suppose this is what’s called by some folks as “virtue signaling”, showing you know what’s right is to prevent violence toward fans, in this case, the owner of the home team. Peer pressure is what it is, and I really dislike the term “virtue signaling”, which has been captured by some political activists. Jokic incident shouldn’t be subject to peer pressure to ban him from a single playoff game, but if it’s gonna happen, make the one-game suspension for one of the WCF games IF Nuggets advance, not this series which is at 2-2 and could be tipped toward Suns with a suspension tomorrow. |
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Post by TNF on May 8, 2023 12:54:54 GMT -5
Make the suspension minimal and for the start of next year.
What's comical is if the situation was reversed many fans here would be taking the opposite stance.
If Josh Kroenke was elbowed by Booker/KD, you don't think those who want no Jokic penalty wouldn't be calling for blood ?
Be honest.
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Post by TNF on May 8, 2023 13:11:00 GMT -5
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Post by Coach Sticky on May 8, 2023 13:17:42 GMT -5
Oh look, the 97 year old guy found the tweet that was posted 8 hours ago
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Post by jimijam28 on May 8, 2023 13:37:40 GMT -5
Old news
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Post by GBG on May 8, 2023 14:05:11 GMT -5
Oh look, the 97 year old guy found the tweet that was posted 8 hours ago Hey look, we have an ageist in our presence! |
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Post by TNF on May 8, 2023 16:11:48 GMT -5
No suspension/$25K fine
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Post by GBG on May 8, 2023 16:37:21 GMT -5
My prediction (and GOD I hope I'm wrong) Jokic suspended one game. Yes, it will make the difference in the series and the playoffs, but it will seem fair to the average casual and make the "owner" happy. You were wrong. 😂 |
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Post by GBG on May 11, 2023 16:57:45 GMT -5
How does this man still have a job at ESPN?
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