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Post by famicommander on Apr 15, 2023 12:20:45 GMT -5
Defense is more than just rim protection and the difference between Jokic and Embiid in points allowed at the rim is fairly minimal all things considered. Defense is also: defensive rebounding steals deflections contest percentage making the right rotation taking charges loose balls Nobody said Jokic was as good defensively as Embiid, either. It's just that the gap is vastly exaggerated. Embiid gets clowned by guys in space just as hard as Jokic. Yes it's more than rim protection but rim protection is the 2nd most valuable aspect of defense for a big. Bigs typically don't have to make multiple rotations or complex reads. Steals are awesome and Jokic is great at them but I'd much rather have him turn into Embiid defensively at the rim than be a steals guy. The Nuggets would be unbeatable if Jokic could protect the rim. Simple as that. The difference between Jokic's offense and Embiid's offense is a far greater gap than the two on defense. Simple as that. Embiid's team wins more when he doesn't play. Simple as that. |
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Post by Ring on Apr 15, 2023 12:22:48 GMT -5
Again, that stat means absolutely nothing to me. What teams did Philly beat when Embiid didn't play? All of that is relevant.
It's not a far greater gap. Embiid generates about 40 points a game for his team offensively. Jokic about 45. Embiid also gets other teams in foul trouble which is extremely valuable whereas Jokic doesn't.
How many times has Embiid gotten his team into the bonus compared to Jokic? How valuable is that offensively? Very, considering it forces team to defend less physically.
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Post by famicommander on Apr 15, 2023 12:35:55 GMT -5
Again, that stat means absolutely nothing to me. What teams did Philly beat when Embiid didn't play? All of that is relevant. It's not a far greater gap. Embiid generates about 40 points a game for his team offensively. Jokic about 45. Embiid also gets other teams in foul trouble which is extremely valuable whereas Jokic doesn't. How many times has Embiid gotten his team into the bonus compared to Jokic? How valuable is that offensively? Very, considering it forces team to defend less physically. Now show me the evidence that Jokic allows more than 5 points per game more than Embiid. Now look at points per possession on offense and defense rather than points per game. Now look at the on/off numbers. Embiid. Has. No. Case. And a 16 game sample size is more than significant enough regardless of opposition. It's the NBA and 16 games is like 1/5th of the season. Look at what the Nuggets are without Jokic and then look at what the Sixers are without Embiid. Now look at what they both did with those guys this year. You cannot argue in good faith that Embiid was more valuable. Take him off the Sixers and they still make the playoffs. Take Jokic off the Nuggets and we're in the Wemby sweepstakes. |
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Post by Ring on Apr 15, 2023 12:41:29 GMT -5
We're never going to agree on this so lets just kill the convo lol
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Post by famicommander on Apr 15, 2023 12:44:55 GMT -5
It's okay to be wrong. We all knew already.
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Post by Ring on Apr 15, 2023 15:44:30 GMT -5
It's okay to be wrong. We all knew already. Grow up |
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Post by inyourmind on Apr 15, 2023 17:53:11 GMT -5
I think Jokic is better than Embiid and IMO should have won the MVP over him but I understand why he didn't even if it sucks.
I will say outside of defense which is obviously a huge talking point .. I am jealous of how aggressive Embiid is as a scorer. Scoring is simply more valuable than playmaking IMO. I think Jokic is more skilled as a scorer as well which is annoying. Give me a 30/12/7 Jokic over a 24/11/10 Jokic. Especially with the way the league hands out assists. I think if Jokic put up 28-30 points this season this wouldn't even be a conversation .. and he's 100% capable of that but just had no interest.
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Post by nuggetshipster on Apr 16, 2023 4:41:43 GMT -5
Its the same people voting for this MVP as the previous two. If you cant respect this outcome what does that say about Jokic MVPs? Be classy in defeat aswell
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Post by famicommander on Apr 16, 2023 10:13:33 GMT -5
Its the same people voting for this MVP as the previous two. If you cant respect this outcome what does that say about Jokic MVPs? Be classy in defeat aswell It doesn't say anything. The last two years Jokic was clearly the best player in the NBA. He was also the best player in the NBA this season. If he had lost it the last two years he would still have been the best player in the NBA the last two seasons. You don't earn any respect for making what is very obviously the only reasonable choice. You do, however, lose respect for making a horrible choice. |
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Post by Coach Sticky on Apr 16, 2023 15:32:47 GMT -5
Another BANGER from the Nuggets Twitter GOAT
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Post by passtheballquick on Apr 16, 2023 16:34:41 GMT -5
Its the same people voting for this MVP as the previous two. If you cant respect this outcome what does that say about Jokic MVPs? Be classy in defeat aswell Really? So it's the same difficult decision to award 1st mvp and 3rd in a row lol |
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Post by passtheballquick on Apr 16, 2023 16:38:41 GMT -5
Again, that stat means absolutely nothing to me. What teams did Philly beat when Embiid didn't play? All of that is relevant. It's not a far greater gap. Embiid generates about 40 points a game for his team offensively. Jokic about 45. Embiid also gets other teams in foul trouble which is extremely valuable whereas Jokic doesn't. How many times has Embiid gotten his team into the bonus compared to Jokic? How valuable is that offensively? Very, considering it forces team to defend less physically. Now show me the evidence that Jokic allows more than 5 points per game more than Embiid. Now look at points per possession on offense and defense rather than points per game. Now look at the on/off numbers. Embiid. Has. No. Case. And a 16 game sample size is more than significant enough regardless of opposition. It's the NBA and 16 games is like 1/5th of the season. Look at what the Nuggets are without Jokic and then look at what the Sixers are without Embiid. Now look at what they both did with those guys this year. You cannot argue in good faith that Embiid was more valuable. Take him off the Sixers and they still make the playoffs. Take Jokic off the Nuggets and we're in the Wemby sweepstakes. I know it's not easy for the Clowns to get it, but keep hammering them politely as you're already doing lol maybe they learn something |
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Post by passtheballquick on Apr 16, 2023 16:50:32 GMT -5
I think Jokic is better than Embiid and IMO should have won the MVP over him but I understand why he didn't even if it sucks. I will say outside of defense which is obviously a huge talking point .. I am jealous of how aggressive Embiid is as a scorer. Scoring is simply more valuable than playmaking IMO. I think Jokic is more skilled as a scorer as well which is annoying. Give me a 30/12/7 Jokic over a 24/11/10 Jokic. Especially with the way the league hands out assists. I think if Jokic put up 28-30 points this season this wouldn't even be a conversation .. and he's 100% capable of that but just had no interest. Why would Jokic do that all the time though? Look at losses against Nets with 35/20/11/2/2 line and Spurs with 37/11/11/3 line. Jokic looking to score is not automatically win even against bad teams and luckily he knows it. |
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Post by Ring on Apr 16, 2023 16:53:10 GMT -5
The 76ers without Embiid beat 3 top 8 seeds this year. The Nuggets without Jokic beat 2 top 8 seeds this year.
Stunning. So much better.
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Post by Ring on Apr 16, 2023 16:56:25 GMT -5
I think Jokic is better than Embiid and IMO should have won the MVP over him but I understand why he didn't even if it sucks. I will say outside of defense which is obviously a huge talking point .. I am jealous of how aggressive Embiid is as a scorer. Scoring is simply more valuable than playmaking IMO. I think Jokic is more skilled as a scorer as well which is annoying. Give me a 30/12/7 Jokic over a 24/11/10 Jokic. Especially with the way the league hands out assists. I think if Jokic put up 28-30 points this season this wouldn't even be a conversation .. and he's 100% capable of that but just had no interest. Why would Jokic do that all the time though? Look at losses against Nets with 35/20/11/2/2 line and Spurs with 37/11/11/3 line. Jokic looking to score is not automatically win even against bad teams and luckily he knows it. Because the Nuggets are a lot better when Jokic scores and takes a lot of shots. Nuggets record this year when Jokic scores 30 or more: 16-5. 63 win pace. Nuggets record this year when Jokic takes 20 shots or more: 12-5. 59 win pace. The Nuggets have a 0% chance of winning the Championship if Jokic is going to average 25 PPG. |
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Post by GBG on Apr 16, 2023 17:08:04 GMT -5
Another BANGER from the Nuggets Twitter GOAT A-La Melo, you tip your hat to yourself. |
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Post by passtheballquick on Apr 16, 2023 18:06:09 GMT -5
Why would Jokic do that all the time though? Look at losses against Nets with 35/20/11/2/2 line and Spurs with 37/11/11/3 line. Jokic looking to score is not automatically win even against bad teams and luckily he knows it. Because the Nuggets are a lot better when Jokic scores and takes a lot of shots. Nuggets record this year when Jokic scores 30 or more: 16-5. 63 win pace. Nuggets record this year when Jokic takes 20 shots or more: 12-5. 59 win pace. The Nuggets have a 0% chance of winning the Championship if Jokic is going to average 25 PPG. Take the last 2 losses out against Rockets and Jazz when Jokic clearly didn't want to play and it's 12:3 which is 66 win pace. That stat shows nothing relevant |
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Post by Ring on Apr 16, 2023 20:56:41 GMT -5
Because the Nuggets are a lot better when Jokic scores and takes a lot of shots. Nuggets record this year when Jokic scores 30 or more: 16-5. 63 win pace. Nuggets record this year when Jokic takes 20 shots or more: 12-5. 59 win pace. The Nuggets have a 0% chance of winning the Championship if Jokic is going to average 25 PPG. Take the last 2 losses out against Rockets and Jazz when Jokic clearly didn't want to play and it's 12:3 which is 66 win pace. That stat shows nothing relevant How would those losses be relevant? What is the stat where they'd be on a 66 win pace? |
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Post by passtheballquick on Apr 16, 2023 21:20:18 GMT -5
Take the last 2 losses out against Rockets and Jazz when Jokic clearly didn't want to play and it's 12:3 which is 66 win pace. That stat shows nothing relevant How would those losses be relevant? What is the stat where they'd be on a 66 win pace? Sorry my bad. I read quickly thru your post and misinterpreted one of your quotes lol. Your numbers are good here |
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Post by TNF on Apr 18, 2023 13:58:38 GMT -5
It was just reported on The Fan that Jokic missed practice with a sore wrist.
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