|
|
Post by nuggetshipster on Jan 7, 2017 10:09:23 GMT -5
i still have more faith in Malone than most of our players
|
|
|
|
Post by eathb on Jan 7, 2017 18:24:26 GMT -5
I really hope we keep Malone for the rest of the year.Hes inadvertently running the tank.. only a couple games out of a top 5 pick I believe he has a team option for next season, so I do wonder if he will be here next season. |
|
|
|
Post by game on Jan 8, 2017 15:08:19 GMT -5
I'd prefer to move on from one, if not all, of Faried/Gallo/Chandler, maybe Nelson or Barton, and give Malone a chance with a different set of guys. So many of these issues sound familiar from well before Malone was here. At least for the sake of the next coach, shake up the locker room.
Not saying you have to completely clean house, but there's a return for each of these guys that works. If the opportunity is there, take it.
|
|
|
|
Post by Scottyy on Jan 8, 2017 15:37:37 GMT -5
I'd prefer to move on from one, if not all, of Faried/Gallo/Chandler, maybe Nelson or Barton, and give Malone a chance with a different set of guys. So many of these issues sound familiar from well before Malone was here. At least for the sake of the next coach, shake up the locker room. Not saying you have to completely clean house, but there's a return for each of these guys that works. If the opportunity is there, take it. I'm starting to think the same. Still not sold on Malone but as you said it's the same issues as the last coach. Picking and choosing when to give effort when they're paid what they're paid isn't good enough. |
|
|
|
Post by inyourmind on Jan 8, 2017 16:01:05 GMT -5
My thing with Malone is his first season with the Kings they weren't as bad as the numbers looked IMO. Now with the Nuggets he's really not doing well either. Shaw had way more distractions, had all the injury issues as well, everyone hated him and yet he still had that season where he won 36 games. Had they been more healthy your probably looking at 45 wins. Lawson only played 62, Gallo didn't play a single game, Chandler played like 62, Randy Foye started 18 games. Andre Miller played 30 games before blowing s**t up. You had Brooks for 30 games. J.J Hickson started 52 games, Quincy Miller 16, Jordan Hamilton 11. McGee went down for the season 5 games in. Anthony Randolph, Vesely, Nate Robinson played roles on that squad. West was alot deeper back than too.
His first season with the Kings he had 3 20+ scorers for 50+ games and they won 28 games. I.T, Rudy Gay, Cousins. Team was obviously pretty scrubby after that with guys like John Salmons, Patrick Patterson, Marcus Thornton, Derrick Williams, Jimmer, Travis Outlaw and so on. Still tho as flawed as those first guys are, Gay only playing 55 games, Cousins 71, I.T 72, you would have thought he could crack 30 wins. He wasn't even starting I.T full time. Kinda like with this season had he started Jokic and playing him properly day 1 we might have an extra 3-4 wins atleast.
Malone had that stretch with the Kings that was good and got him hype. Everyone just assumed the trash Kings were the issue, and they are, but maybe Malone played his part as well..
|
|
|
|
Post by JB on Jan 8, 2017 16:03:25 GMT -5
I guess you guys never had terrible bosses before.
I very much doubt these "issues" would occur if Josh had the good sense to give the job to Melvin or Dantoni. you can be the most motivated guy in the world, but if the person above you is a toxic headcase or utterly clueless, it will wear you down and kill your drive.
ffs, Malone said Jokic's rookie success was a fluke and we should temper our expectations. I understand making the argument that Gallo/Chandler/Faried aren't good enough to win with, but moving them for Malone's sake is just rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic.
|
|
|
|
Post by brick2 on Jan 8, 2017 16:24:01 GMT -5
Regardless of whether it's the players or Malone, those players gotta go. Gallo doesn't play defense and isn't the playmaker he was that 57 win year. Faried gives more effort than anyone but is just limited in what he can do for the position he plays. Barton's doesn't defend or pass well and he's inconsistent. Nelson is a flat-out terrible defender even he he gets hot shooting once in a while. Even Chandler, while being the best of them, is moody and doesn't play d all that well. Not a guy you build around and will be the guy every team wants as part of a trade. Nurkic doesn't want to be here and I can sort of see why but he's not even *that* good.
To use the Titanic analogy, we need a new crew. One that can do a basic thing like stopping a fire that's burning out your hull (aka play defense).
|
|
|
|
Post by game on Jan 8, 2017 17:55:23 GMT -5
I guess you guys never had terrible bosses before. I very much doubt these "issues" would occur if Josh had the good sense to give the job to Melvin or Dantoni. you can be the most motivated guy in the world, but if the person above you is a toxic headcase or utterly clueless, it will wear you down and kill your drive. ffs, Malone said Jokic's rookie success was a fluke and we should temper our expectations. I understand making the argument that Gallo/Chandler/Faried aren't good enough to win with, but moving them for Malone's sake is just rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic. I think you're moving them for the team's sake, not Malone's. These problems existed under Shaw as well. We can keep firing and hiring coaches and wondering why the same problems stick around, or we can start to attack this thing from more than one direction. If you want to let Malone go, have at it. I'm not convinced he's the long term answer yet, either. I also know that firing the coach or playing the backup QB is always the easy fan approach to fixing everything, and there's a fair amount of evidence that points to this core not exactly being the most motivated bunch of dudes. Firing a coach every year or two isn't a good precedent to set either, if you're hoping to be a credible franchise. Especially when you're too afraid to make much of a change to the roster during that time. |
|
|
|
Post by JB on Jan 8, 2017 19:33:38 GMT -5
I guess you guys never had terrible bosses before. I very much doubt these "issues" would occur if Josh had the good sense to give the job to Melvin or Dantoni. you can be the most motivated guy in the world, but if the person above you is a toxic headcase or utterly clueless, it will wear you down and kill your drive. ffs, Malone said Jokic's rookie success was a fluke and we should temper our expectations. I understand making the argument that Gallo/Chandler/Faried aren't good enough to win with, but moving them for Malone's sake is just rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic. I think you're moving them for the team's sake, not Malone's. These problems existed under Shaw as well. We can keep firing and hiring coaches and wondering why the same problems stick around, or we can start to attack this thing from more than one direction. If you want to let Malone go, have at it. I'm not convinced he's the long term answer yet, either. I also know that firing the coach or playing the backup QB is always the easy fan approach to fixing everything, and there's a fair amount of evidence that points to this core not exactly being the most motivated bunch of dudes. Firing a coach every year or two isn't a good precedent to set either, if you're hoping to be a credible franchise. Especially when you're too afraid to make much of a change to the roster during that time. and we've also seen what this core has done with a coach that knew how to play to the strength of his roster: top 5 in offensive efficiency and around middle of the pack defensively. we have a historically putrid defense, regressing young players and disgruntled vets. only Jokic's brilliance is shining through this sea of darkness, and he's excelling in spite of Malone, not because of him. I honestly wanted to Malone to work out but I can't point to a single positive thing about his time here and say "we can build on that". |
|
|
|
Post by duh88 on Jan 9, 2017 2:43:48 GMT -5
Anyone who is picking Malone over our players is a f***ing dumbass.
Seriously. f***ing dumbass.
|
|
|
|
Post by Coach Sticky on Jan 9, 2017 3:38:13 GMT -5
YOU f***ing DUMBASS ERIK!!! f***ing. DUMBASS!!!
Don't worry duh, me and Erik will 'talk' about that in London
|
|
|
|
Post by AbdulJabber on Jan 9, 2017 8:17:29 GMT -5
With all the angry finger pointing going on here, I'm surprised there isn't more concern about TC. I like the guy, but it's odd how powerless he seems for a GM. It looks like he's pretty good with the draft, but what does he do? Is he even allowed to make roster changes?
I wasn't too concerned until the last draft when we kept all 3 picks. It made zero sense at the time and it makes zero sense now. Trade those picks for whatever you can get. Literally shop them around and take the best deal available. Throw in a vet or two if needed, but don't just use the picks on players that rot on the bench.
The complete lack of direction and lack of movement with the roster almost suggests something else is brewing. Maybe the Kroenks are too focused on how to move the Nuggets to Seattle to worry about the current season.
|
|
|
|
Post by jimijam28 on Jan 9, 2017 9:31:11 GMT -5
With all the angry finger pointing going on here, I'm surprised there isn't more concern about TC. I like the guy, but it's odd how powerless he seems for a GM. It looks like he's pretty good with the draft, but what does he do? Is he even allowed to make roster changes? I wasn't too concerned until the last draft when we kept all 3 picks. It made zero sense at the time and it makes zero sense now. Trade those picks for whatever you can get. Literally shop them around and take the best deal available. Throw in a vet or two if needed, but don't just use the picks on players that rot on the bench. The complete lack of direction and lack of movement with the roster almost suggests something else is brewing. Maybe the Kroenks are too focused on how to move the Nuggets to Seattle to worry about the current season. i started the tc thread- it need too be warm up again. |
|
|
|
Post by game on Jan 9, 2017 11:36:46 GMT -5
Anyone who is picking Malone over our players is a f***ing dumbass. Seriously. f***ing dumbass. Now isn't that rich. Regarding TC - I haven't been impressed outside of draft scouting, but my concern is the GM position here is always going to be a job with at least one hand tied behind their back. The meddling of the guy upstairs feels likely to a) keep any top candidates away, and b) make it impossible for that GM to do their job. The Gallo trade that they took away because Gallo didn't want to be traded is embarrassing. Maybe that was all TC, but I tend to doubt it. |
|
|
|
Post by game on Jan 9, 2017 11:50:00 GMT -5
I think you're moving them for the team's sake, not Malone's. These problems existed under Shaw as well. We can keep firing and hiring coaches and wondering why the same problems stick around, or we can start to attack this thing from more than one direction. If you want to let Malone go, have at it. I'm not convinced he's the long term answer yet, either. I also know that firing the coach or playing the backup QB is always the easy fan approach to fixing everything, and there's a fair amount of evidence that points to this core not exactly being the most motivated bunch of dudes. Firing a coach every year or two isn't a good precedent to set either, if you're hoping to be a credible franchise. Especially when you're too afraid to make much of a change to the roster during that time. and we've also seen what this core has done with a coach that knew how to play to the strength of his roster: top 5 in offensive efficiency and around middle of the pack defensively. we have a historically putrid defense, regressing young players and disgruntled vets. only Jokic's brilliance is shining through this sea of darkness, and he's excelling in spite of Malone, not because of him. I honestly wanted to Malone to work out but I can't point to a single positive thing about his time here and say "we can build on that". I'm not making an argument why Malone is great. I'm making an argument for addressing the players who avoid accountability like the plague. That's not going to change just because you fire the coach. The same culture that has young guys coming in and being told Denver is boring, so you'll be forced to focus on hoops. Jameer Nelson and Mike Miller are the guys trying to actively lead and bring the team together. Both are over 5 years out of their prime, and one doesn't play at all. That doesn't work. I 100% believe Malone when he says the only guys speaking up are two of the young guys, because it's consistent with what we've seen with these guys for years, and that's a f***ing embarrassment. The 57 win team at least had Iguodala, who is a douche, but is accountable. So... fire the coach if you'd like, but I'm not doing it until I've addressed the locker room. I'm not bringing a new coach into the same mess as the last two and expecting a different results. Spoiler alert: these guys quit and have effort that's inconsistent, and the young guys look to the vets on how to act. No thanks. |
|
|
|
Post by GBG on Jan 9, 2017 12:16:55 GMT -5
Regarding TC, he has made trades, or "near-trades":
KK for DA/Joffrey - Meh
Fours for AAA - Ugh
AAA for Barton/Beasley - Wow!
Mozzy for 2 1st round picks - Pretty good
Ty for Juancho - Good! Ty hasn't rehabbed to what he was before implosion.
Foye for Augustin and 2nd rounder - Good, coulda been better if we kept DJ
Joffrey for two 2nd rounders - We could use Joffrey now, but okay.
I'm calling TC's trade record mixed. He's never done the one trade that "moves the needle", as he's so often told fans and season ticket holders he is seeking. He almost did the Millsap trade last summer, and in fact I think it was a done deal until Horford signed with Boston. So, he needs to do more. This team needs work and improvement, from the players to the coaching staff. That may mean new players or members of coaching staff. It may mean different playing time for players. Still waiting for Jokic to average 34 mpg, where he should be, but MM is too cautious with his fouling, even though he's only fouled out once. So many issues, and certainly Josh is probably like a co-GM with TC. Nothing major gets done without Josh approval.
|
|
|
|
Post by Coach Sticky on Jan 9, 2017 12:28:17 GMT -5
Good summary man... I wonder what our roster would look like if Masai was still our Gm
|
|
|
|
Post by GBG on Jan 9, 2017 13:02:28 GMT -5
There were even other trades I didn't mention. Hamilton for Brooks, which was good but we failed to keep Brooks. Miller for Jan Vessely, a sad deal as Dre was a fave of my wife and mine. Iggy for Foye, as that was our pennies on the dollar deal forced by Iggy going to GS. Again, overall, a mixed record.
But he got us Jokic, who could turn into a HOFer. I'll take the tradeoff of a mixed trading record for one Jokic seven days a week.
|
|
|
|
Post by game on Jan 9, 2017 13:20:22 GMT -5
It's just hard to know how much the indecisiveness is a TC thing versus Josh creating an environment that fosters that.
I totally agree. We keep adding to our stockpile of good/not great players, and it's hard to see the direction they're going in assembling the roster.
Does Josh intervene and not allow them to deal Lawson, or Gallo, until they're completely backed into a corner, or is that a TC thing? My guess is it's more to do with Josh, but it's just a guess with the limited info I have. Going and trying to sign DWade, for instance, has Josh's hands all over it. I have a really hard time believing a guy with a scouting background viewed that as the best move. Feels like a sell tickets type move.
|
|
|
|
Post by brick2 on Jan 9, 2017 15:13:34 GMT -5
For a while those guys were being cautious on trades, and I think that was prudent the past 2-3 years. Especially last year.
This year they need to be aggressive though. They have the "assets," use them even if they're not getting what looks to be a full return. And sometimes there's addition by subtraction. Take a chance.
|
|
