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Post by rock on Jan 6, 2017 15:53:18 GMT -5
f***in a.
Even worse than the west head days? I'm pretty sure he told his players to literally not play any defense.
Hope this is a wake up call
Dump the vets. This "core" is done. Millsap isn't fixing anything. Start over
Worried about attendance? It can't get any worse and you may even add another fan or two who find the new effort refreshing and exciting.
I'd much rather watch mudiay and murray go out there and learn the game than chandler jameer and Gallo chuck up bad shots and play no D.
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Post by brick2 on Jan 6, 2017 16:02:38 GMT -5
Ouch. And he's supposed to be a defense-oriented coach. If I were him I'd be scratching my eyes out.
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Post by JB on Jan 6, 2017 16:13:55 GMT -5
f***in a. Even worse than the west head days? I'm pretty sure he told his players to literally not play any defense. Hope this is a wake up call Dump the vets. This "core" is done. Millsap isn't fixing anything. Start over Worried about attendance? It can't get any worse and you may even add another fan or two who find the new effort refreshing and exciting. I'd much rather watch mudiay and murray go out there and learn the game than chandler jameer and Gallo chuck up bad shots and play no D. it's important to remember how freakin good Chandler/Gallo were the last time they played for a good coach grantland.com/the-triangle/a-world-without-gallo-can-george-karls-nuggets-survive/but other than that, I agree. let's build a proper team around Jokic/Harris/Murray, see what we have with Juancho Relaxo/Beasley and give Nurk and Mudiay the rest of the season to see if they have a future with the team. going all in with this coach is just going to end in disaster. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2017 16:21:32 GMT -5
With the exception of the 57 win season, the core of the last 6 years, Gallo/Chandler/Faried just aren't getting it done. It's definitely time to move on.
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Post by brick2 on Jan 6, 2017 16:38:00 GMT -5
Gallo and Chandler are also different players these days. Gallo especially has become a bad defender, and lazy to boot.
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Post by game on Jan 6, 2017 16:54:26 GMT -5
Both of those dudes have a lot more value to a playoff team. Nuggs need to go pursue it, and I'd like to see it for their sakes.
Love Wilson, man. He's just miscast on this team. Put him on a team where he'd be the 3rd or 4th option and let him do his thing.
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Post by inyourmind on Jan 6, 2017 17:05:45 GMT -5
f***in a. Even worse than the west head days? I'm pretty sure he told his players to literally not play any defense. Hope this is a wake up call Dump the vets. This "core" is done. Millsap isn't fixing anything. Start over Worried about attendance? It can't get any worse and you may even add another fan or two who find the new effort refreshing and exciting. I'd much rather watch mudiay and murray go out there and learn the game than chandler jameer and Gallo chuck up bad shots and play no D. There's no reason not to do this. The argument was always about the culture of the team and ruining the young guys by losing but right now and the past few years the culture of the team is awful and we always have some kind of issue. Probably why teams don't mix alot of young talent and veterans together unless the veterans know and agree to the situation that there rebuilding. Guys like Nelson didn't agree to that. Nelson doesn't want to play behind Murray. Even Barton. Barton seems like a cool dude but I remember the interview when he was asked about coming off the bench and how he's so good at it he said he wants to start but he'll do whatever to help the team. Watching him play he's just selfish. He wants to start. We haven't built a team, we just have young guys mixed in with above average individual talent. Jokic/everybody, Mudiay/Harris, really seem like the only players on this team with a lick of chemistry. Chandler/Gallo/Faried/Barton/Nelson out starting now leading up to the deadline. Hold Barton if you can't get a good deal and shop him in the offseason, same with Nelson but prioritize Chandler/Gallo/Faried getting traded. Keep DA/Mike Miller. You'll get back rotation vets when you dump the veterans. Add extra picks, short term deals, and prospects who you can develop to play with our young guys in 2 years. Tank the rest of the season, add an elite talent, go into next year with the priority of growing the young players #1. You obviously can't have a team that's just filled with young guys. You need some veterans. The kinda veterans we need are the guys who play 15-25 minutes and are ok with that and show a good example. Nelson would be fine if Malone didn't over play him and would accept that some nights he wasn't going to see the floor. If he'd put in even 20% effort on defense. For years the "fire sale" was always speculated and apparently in the past deals were lined up for Gallo atleast that's what's been said but Nuggets never did anything. To me this is the season the firesale should happen unless the Nuggets somehow secure the 8th seed before the deadline and it looks like the playoffs are doable. With our current defense it won't happen. I personally prefer the rebuild regardless but wouldn't fault the FO for avoiding it in favor of the 8th seed that would make them money. |
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Post by inyourmind on Jan 6, 2017 17:11:28 GMT -5
Like I sound like a broken record but I'm just mind blown the Nuggets haven't properly rebuilt. Makes zero sense. I feel like 90% of the league would have admitted it by now. It's not like were in a bad situation, or we don't have a ton of assets. Were in a better situation than most rebuilding teams could hope for. We don't even have one ugly contract that's holding us back. I feel like Josh feels pressured to win, increase attendance, and right after the Melo trade Karl refusing to want and rebuild has kinda hampered us. We stayed afloat for abit, even made the playoffs, but it was always going to come crashing down. Only one fix and it's re-starting. Not like we don't have like 50% of our future young core already, just need 1 more draft, maybe 2 to complete things.
We reward players who don't deserve to be rewarded. You reward the great players, and the guys who help you win. Nobody on this roster does that yet we stay loyal to them. Faried, Gallo, Chandler etc. all get there deals, never are traded, even D.A.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2017 17:15:59 GMT -5
We reward players who don't deserve to be rewarded. Well said! That's a great way to summarize the Nuggets. Players, who don't deserve to be rewarded, seemingly get the rewards whether it be playing time, money, etc. |
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Post by rock on Jan 6, 2017 18:10:59 GMT -5
Both of those dudes have a lot more value to a playoff team. Nuggs need to go pursue it, and I'd like to see it for their sakes. Love Wilson, man. He's just miscast on this team. Put him on a team where he'd be the 3rd or 4th option and let him do his thing. Agreed. They would thrive on a team like the Spurs or cavs. Does San Antonio have any expiring contracts to send us with a first for gsllo? |
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Post by rock on Jan 6, 2017 18:14:16 GMT -5
Like I sound like a broken record but I'm just mind blown the Nuggets haven't properly rebuilt. Makes zero sense. I feel like 90% of the league would have admitted it by now. It's not like were in a bad situation, or we don't have a ton of assets. Were in a better situation than most rebuilding teams could hope for. We don't even have one ugly contract that's holding us back. I feel like Josh feels pressured to win, increase attendance, and right after the Melo trade Karl refusing to want and rebuild has kinda hampered us. We stayed afloat for abit, even made the playoffs, but it was always going to come crashing down. Only one fix and it's re-starting. Not like we don't have like 50% of our future young core already, just need 1 more draft, maybe 2 to complete things. We reward players who don't deserve to be rewarded. You reward the great players, and the guys who help you win. Nobody on this roster does that yet we stay loyal to them. Faried, Gallo, Chandler etc. all get there deals, never are traded, even D.A. 100% this. The only argument I get is they are worried about attendance. Which we are last in. So now is a great time to blow it up. KSE should be happy - imagine how low our payroll will be next year with everyone on a rookie deal |
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Post by game on Jan 6, 2017 18:36:23 GMT -5
Until you get to the point you have to start paying these guys on their rookie deals. Then you have a bunch of marginal players like Gary Harris locked up to big long term deals because you're terrified to lose anybody and... we've completely repeated what we did with all these guys in the post-Melo era. Pay everybody because you're terrified to lose anybody, and you're stuck in a rut.
No offense to Gary Harris. I like his game, and I think he'll be a really nice complementary player in the league. Just like Chandler, Gallo, Faried, Lawson... we pay these complementary players while we continue to miss the piece that f***ing matters: the guy(s) they are there to complement. The guy who takes the big shot. The guy who the defense has to key on, freeing the Gary Harris type guys of the world to thrive.
Rinse. Repeat. #MileHighBasketball
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Post by eathb on Jan 6, 2017 18:38:14 GMT -5
Yeah.. can't help but feel that all Harris does is make Mudiay more competent offensively.
Otherwise, I don't think he's a starting NBA player, his defensive numbers are just awful.
We dont' really have anyone else at the 2 though, and Malone would never start Murray for Harris.
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Post by rock on Jan 6, 2017 18:47:53 GMT -5
Until you get to the point you have to start paying these guys on their rookie deals. Then you have a bunch of marginal players like Gary Harris locked up to big long term deals because you're terrified to lose anybody and... we've completely repeated what we did with all these guys in the post-Melo era. Pay everybody because you're terrified to lose anybody, and you're stuck in a rut. No offense to Gary Harris. I like his game, and I think he'll be a really nice complementary player in the league. Just like Chandler, Gallo, Faried, Lawson... we pay these complementary players while we continue to miss the piece that f***ing matters: the guy(s) they are there to complement. The guy who takes the big shot. The guy who the defense has to key on, freeing the Gary Harris type guys of the world to thrive. Rinse. Repeat. #MileHighBasketball Right. So how do we get those top guys to be our #1 and #2? We've had plenty of complementary players throughout the year. They are easy to find. |
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Post by game on Jan 6, 2017 18:52:34 GMT -5
The best version of Jokic plays alongside a #1 scorer. He's never going to be wired to score 20+ PPG, and trying to make him into that is the wrong approach. He could easily average 18/9/5 if you put a legit scorer or two around him.
Basically, Memphis trying to make Pau Gasol "the guy" never could do a thing in the playoffs, versus how much more freely he was able to play when he paired with Kobe. It's not like Kobe has the impact on a team LeBron does, either, where you put him on any team they're a contender. The post-Shaq / pre-Gasol Lakers were a dumpster fire. Gasol was as big a part of what they did as Kobe was.
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Post by rock on Jan 6, 2017 18:57:35 GMT -5
I feel Tatum would fit nicely next to jokic and Murray.
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Post by game on Jan 6, 2017 19:04:11 GMT -5
Hopefully. I haven't seen a #1 scorer makeup when I've watched him yet, but he's young, the season is early, etc. I'm also not a scout.
The best means to get the #1 guy is a high draft pick (top 3) hitting, or packaging young assets/picks for that guy when he's available. Free agency doesn't work here like it does in LA. We'd need that guy in place before we'll be free agency players on that level.
So... I'm in favor of keeping a stockpile of future #1 picks so we can strike when the trade opportunity presents itself, and ultimately what they refuse to do: rebuild properly.
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Post by eathb on Jan 6, 2017 19:08:34 GMT -5
I can't think of a coach that achieved historical worst marks (us playing historically bad defense in our case) that ended up becoming a successful coach.
Even when I look at our roster, I just cannot see how we can play this level of bad defense. We eveb have a few players that have been plus defenders over their careers.
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Post by rock on Jan 6, 2017 19:10:43 GMT -5
I'd actually love to trade Gallo/WC/faried/jameer for 2018-2020 firsts. You never know and may get lucky if a team collapses in 2-3 years and you get a nice top 10 pick
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Post by josh on Jan 6, 2017 21:12:48 GMT -5
I really hope we keep Malone for the rest of the year.Hes inadvertently running the tank.. only a couple games out of a top 5 pick
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