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Post by ThePoopSmith on Nov 19, 2016 19:42:24 GMT -5
Last night definitely wasn't on Malone. He had one of the two bigs in for the majority of the 4th and OT. Gallo missed what, 5 wide open jumpers towards the end of the game? Mudiay throws a ball 40 feet into the stands, Chandler misses a FT to ice it. Cant really blame a coach for any of that, at some point the players have to take some ownership. They've blown several games this year basically because the players have choked in the 4th.
Not much hope for them right now, they better put a 10 game winning streak together or else they'll be playing in front of 5,000 at home for the rest of the year.
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Post by nuggetshipster on Nov 20, 2016 10:38:24 GMT -5
only beef i have with Malone after that game was Jameer playing 38mpg while his shot clearly wasnt falling. Neither war Murray's but at least he made a difference on D and with good passing
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Post by scooter on Nov 20, 2016 16:39:08 GMT -5
only beef i have with Malone after that game was Jameer playing 38mpg while his shot clearly wasnt falling. Neither war Murray's but at least he made a difference on D and with good passing That's my thinking as well. Murray and Nelson should be playing roughly equal minutes right now while Harris and Barton are out -- not 38 minutes for Nelson and 18 for Murray. Otherwise, the personnel decision-making was fine. Gallo missed wide open threes down the stretch -- there isn't much the coaching staff can do about that. In addition, the team doesn't really have anyone who can defend the likes of DeRozan (or Butler or Thompson or Harden etc.) or any other big, strong, talented SGs. Still, I'd like to see Malone give Murray a shot at it. He's probably not up to the task right now, but at least he doesn't shy away from a challenge. I think we all see that. |
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Post by inyourmind on Nov 20, 2016 21:00:33 GMT -5
 It's just a gigantic double standard. Took him forever to stop just constantly praising Mudiay. It's almost as if Malone has it in his mind that Jokic is this player and isn't interested in finding out what he could be if he more heavily involved. It's not just minutes. It's the fact that he isn't being properly utilized within the offense. That's how you ruin a players development, especially one like Jokic who's timid and probably perfectly fine with just being a solid NBA rather than gunning to be an All-Star ala Mudiay. Eventually I think Jokic will force Malone's hand, atleast I hope. If not that's the kinda thing you look back on in 5 seasons if Mudiay busts and Jokic is averaging 10/6. Some guys you don't need to groom to be stars. Mudiay has the right mentality there. Seems like star or bust for him. Either be really good, or shooting you outta games refusing to take a backseat. Jokic needs to be propped up IMO. Malone should be telling him this team goes where you go. That camping out at the 3 point line, or not attacking hurts the team. |
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Post by brick2 on Nov 21, 2016 13:55:08 GMT -5
It's just a gigantic double standard. Took him forever to stop just constantly praising Mudiay. It's almost as if Malone has it in his mind that Jokic is this player and isn't interested in finding out what he could be if he more heavily involved. It's not just minutes. It's the fact that he isn't being properly utilized within the offense. That's how you ruin a players development, especially one like Jokic who's timid and probably perfectly fine with just being a solid NBA rather than gunning to be an All-Star ala Mudiay. Eventually I think Jokic will force Malone's hand, atleast I hope. If not that's the kinda thing you look back on in 5 seasons if Mudiay busts and Jokic is averaging 10/6. Some guys you don't need to groom to be stars. Mudiay has the right mentality there. Seems like star or bust for him. Either be really good, or shooting you outta games refusing to take a backseat. Jokic needs to be propped up IMO. Malone should be telling him this team goes where you go. That camping out at the 3 point line, or not attacking hurts the team. There are so many more elements of their interaction that we don't see or know about so I wouldn't use this comment and playing time as the only reflection of how Malone treats Jokic. Maybe in a couple of years we'll find out that I'm wrong but I would be pretty surprised if Malone isn't propping him up in practices. BTW in that quote Malone seems to be defending Jokic for the most part. Because let's face it he's been pretty bad on D. |
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Post by eathb on Nov 21, 2016 16:36:42 GMT -5
One issue for me now is that when Harris returns, if Malone is willing to drop Nelson out of the rotation. I don't think it's a difficult choice at all, Murray is better at both ends of the court.
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Post by inyourmind on Nov 21, 2016 17:06:08 GMT -5
It's just a gigantic double standard. Took him forever to stop just constantly praising Mudiay. It's almost as if Malone has it in his mind that Jokic is this player and isn't interested in finding out what he could be if he more heavily involved. It's not just minutes. It's the fact that he isn't being properly utilized within the offense. That's how you ruin a players development, especially one like Jokic who's timid and probably perfectly fine with just being a solid NBA rather than gunning to be an All-Star ala Mudiay. Eventually I think Jokic will force Malone's hand, atleast I hope. If not that's the kinda thing you look back on in 5 seasons if Mudiay busts and Jokic is averaging 10/6. Some guys you don't need to groom to be stars. Mudiay has the right mentality there. Seems like star or bust for him. Either be really good, or shooting you outta games refusing to take a backseat. Jokic needs to be propped up IMO. Malone should be telling him this team goes where you go. That camping out at the 3 point line, or not attacking hurts the team. There are so many more elements of their interaction that we don't see or know about so I wouldn't use this comment and playing time as the only reflection of how Malone treats Jokic. Maybe in a couple of years we'll find out that I'm wrong but I would be pretty surprised if Malone isn't propping him up in practices. BTW in that quote Malone seems to be defending Jokic for the most part. Because let's face it he's been pretty bad on D. Jokic has been fine. He's literally our best second defender statistically is he not? If Jokic has been pretty "bad" on defense that our entire roster has been so no reason to single him out. Not like he's Nelson out there. Jokic has had a slight drop statistically that's pretty easily explained. Played next next to Nurk for like 8 games so his rebounds are down, and he hasn't been as efficient while playing alot further from the basket. He's had to adapt to a new position, been moved out of the starting unit and his confidence clearly took a hit GS game sticks out, and hasn't been consistently featured in the offense but more just another guy on the floor typically. Last night against Utah in the 2nd Q he was heavily involved in the offense and it looked great. There's no extra pressure now that's he's outta the starting unit, and not like defense's are giving him extra attention or anything because he's literally in the same role as last season, actually probably a lesser role. Obviously there's more that goes beyond the scenes but coming into this season everyone, not just Nugget fans, wanted to see what Jokic was capable of. We never even got a chance to see if he wasn't ready but the minutes and the role wasn't there. I think Jokic should be getting primed to be a building block, not having expectations lowered and being developed as an elite role player. Last year he finished 3rd in rookie voting, looked amazing, yet couldn't earn anymore minute for whatever reason. Goes off in the offseason and has some lights out performances, comes into TC slimmer, so not like he hasn't earned it. He's earned it more so than any other young player on this roster if your being entirely honest. |
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Post by brick2 on Nov 21, 2016 20:05:33 GMT -5
There are so many more elements of their interaction that we don't see or know about so I wouldn't use this comment and playing time as the only reflection of how Malone treats Jokic. Maybe in a couple of years we'll find out that I'm wrong but I would be pretty surprised if Malone isn't propping him up in practices. BTW in that quote Malone seems to be defending Jokic for the most part. Because let's face it he's been pretty bad on D. Jokic has been fine. He's literally our best second defender statistically is he not? If Jokic has been pretty "bad" on defense that our entire roster has been so no reason to single him out. Not like he's Nelson out there. Jokic has had a slight drop statistically that's pretty easily explained. Played next next to Nurk for like 8 games so his rebounds are down, and he hasn't been as efficient while playing alot further from the basket. He's had to adapt to a new position, been moved out of the starting unit and his confidence clearly took a hit GS game sticks out, and hasn't been consistently featured in the offense but more just another guy on the floor typically. Last night against Utah in the 2nd Q he was heavily involved in the offense and it looked great. There's no extra pressure now that's he's outta the starting unit, and not like defense's are giving him extra attention or anything because he's literally in the same role as last season, actually probably a lesser role. Obviously there's more that goes beyond the scenes but coming into this season everyone, not just Nugget fans, wanted to see what Jokic was capable of. We never even got a chance to see if he wasn't ready but the minutes and the role wasn't there. I think Jokic should be getting primed to be a building block, not having expectations lowered and being developed as an elite role player. Last year he finished 3rd in rookie voting, looked amazing, yet couldn't earn anymore minute for whatever reason. Goes off in the offseason and has some lights out performances, comes into TC slimmer, so not like he hasn't earned it. He's earned it more so than any other young player on this roster if your being entirely honest. I'm not even talking about the PF experiment. But statistically 2nd best by what measures? I missed yesterday's game (will watch tonight) but Toronto took advantage of his lack of strength inside and lack of quickness away from the rim. He's kind of in no man's land defensively that way, neither a rim protector nor quick enough on the perimeter. At least Nurk can protect the rim. Despite that it was Jokic who finished that game so I don't know how that's indicative of Malone being unfair. Anyway my point remains. You can talk all day long about what Malone should and shouldn't be doing and how he treats Jokic and whatnot but perhaps to put things more bluntly, you have less than 10% of the picture. Jokic does look frustrated and dejected so I hope he can have a few good games to get his head back on straight. The more he does that the more minutes he'll get because Nurk hasn't been all that great recently. BTW I comparing our PG's and C's playing time is misleading since Jokic has a legit competitor for minutes at his spot whereas Mudiay has... |
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Post by inyourmind on Nov 22, 2016 2:21:20 GMT -5
Advanced metrics, I don't know tho. Entire team is poor defensively, thought I read that but maybe Jokic does have poor defensive numbers. Guess at the end of the day just want to see Jokic get starters minutes. To me he earned being a starter on this team pretty clearly and at 21 going back to the bench and basically just having another year of up and down minutes in that 19-25 range is poor development. Especially when being more assertive and not being timid is probably one of his biggest flaws. Watching the games it's more on lack of minutes, lack of involvement that Jokic's actually ability right now. When called apon he's answered. He's got over 30 minutes once and went off.
Just annoying cause this young core is dripping with potential. If Mudiay/Murray/Jokic/Nurkic all saw 28+ minutes consistently I'd be content regardless of W's because I think eventually that core can develop into something you build winning teams around for the next decade.
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Post by nuggetshipster on Nov 22, 2016 11:33:11 GMT -5
For all the love that Thibs gets for playing young guys.. The 5th pick Kris Dunn hasnt scored in his last two games. Malone hasnt had a pick as high as that to coach yet. And Dunn was supposed to be extremely NBA ready
There is a big difference between #1 picks like Wiggins and Towns and guys like Nurkic, Murray, Jokic, Dunn, Bender etc.
Mostly towards Eathb, who has said many times that KAT wouldnt even have gotten legit playtime under Malone.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2016 14:38:12 GMT -5
For all the love that Thibs gets for playing young guys.. The 5th pick Kris Dunn hasnt scored in his last two games. Malone hasnt had a pick as high as that to coach yet. And Dunn was supposed to be extremely NBA ready There is a big difference between #1 picks like Wiggins and Towns and guys like Nurkic, Murray, Jokic, Dunn, Bender etc. Mostly towards Eathb, who has said many times that KAT wouldnt even have gotten legit playtime under Malone. I think the opinion stems from thinking Malone would screw it up and not play KAT. It isn't a reflection of #1 talent v. #7 - 12 drafted talent. |
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Post by nuggetshipster on Nov 22, 2016 16:37:00 GMT -5
But why do some people think that? Malone would obviously treat KAT as a franchise player
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2016 17:03:12 GMT -5
But who do some people think that? Malone would obviously treat KAT as a franchise player Maybe because he runs out different line-ups and doesn't have a consistent rotation? Or hell, losing sucks so people have to b***h about something. |
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Post by eathb on Nov 26, 2016 1:51:08 GMT -5
We'd 100% have a btter record than .500 this season with Walton or Fizdale as coach.
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Post by GBG on Nov 26, 2016 1:53:30 GMT -5
He's officially a bad NBA head coach from the standpoint of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory late in games due to poor decisions, or failure to make subbing decisions. He freezes up like a deer in headlights. He has the late game "yips", as Jeff Morton of DenverStiffs puts it.
I'm for keeping him our head coach, and seeing if he improves late in games, but right now I'm not hopeful. He keeps making the same bad fourth quarter mistakes over and over that costs us W's. And doing it at home which hurts even more.
Give Malone three full seasons, and if he still chokes in late game situations, then replace him.
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Post by nuggetshipster on Nov 26, 2016 8:12:27 GMT -5
Just wondering, did you expect us to win many games without Gallo, Barton and Garris? leaving us with our most inconsistent players, rookies and wilson
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Post by eathb on Nov 26, 2016 10:36:51 GMT -5
He's officially a bad NBA head coach from the standpoint of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory late in games due to poor decisions, or failure to make subbing decisions. He freezes up like a deer in headlights. He has the late game "yips", as Jeff Morton of DenverStiffs puts it. I'm for keeping him our head coach, and seeing if he improves late in games, but right now I'm not hopeful. He keeps making the same bad fourth quarter mistakes over and over that costs us W's. And doing it at home which hurts even more. Give Malone three full seasons, and if he still chokes in late game situations, then replace him. While I don't think he should be moved this season, like with Shaw there is really no reason to keep Malone if no progress is made with this team by the end of the year. For whatever reason we are actually a worst team this year despite adding a 20 ppg scorer in Murray and Chandler who has a chance at 6MOTY. |
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Post by scooter on Nov 26, 2016 11:56:20 GMT -5
Give Malone three full seasons, and if he still chokes in late game situations, then replace him. I'm not sure he gets three full seasons, but I generally agree with the idea. To be clear, he's had about 1 1/4 seasons. For the most part, I think he's doing a good job as a player development coach. Folks here that bash him for not playing all of the young guys 32 minutes/game are not considering that the FO wants to win, and that some of the young players are not ready to handle a consistently heavy load for one reason or another (including matchups in particular games). Putting aside issues of skillset/conditioning, Malone also knows that different young players have a different level of mental readiness. He's trying to avoid putting certain guys in a position where he thinks they are likely to fail. So I think he gets a chance to move past developing half a roster of baby players. But it may turn out that he's more of player development coach than a winning coach. We'll see. Maybe. |
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Post by scooter on Nov 26, 2016 12:12:22 GMT -5
While I don't think he should be moved this season, like with Shaw there is really no reason to keep Malone if no progress is made with this team by the end of the year. For whatever reason we are actually a worst team this year despite adding a 20 ppg scorer in Murray and Chandler who has a chance at 6MOTY. 1) the team is not worse. -3.1 last season. -2.4 so far this season. 2) the team is even younger than last season, having added three rookies. Adding a 19 year old who has scored 20 points in a few games isn't "adding a 20 ppg scorer." We're all excited about Murray, but he's averaging 10.6 points -- in NBA parlance, that's not a 20 ppg scorer, unless you think someone like E'twaun Moore (whose true shooting % for the season is almost exactly the same as Murray's) is a 20 ppg scorer because he could average 20 ppg if he played more minutes. 3) a Shaw comparison is very bad, because the team was extremely unprofessional under Shaw and had stretches where multiple players didn't care a whit about winning. It depends on what "progress" means. Usually when an NBA team has 7 players with 0-2 years of NBA experience, progress is not defined by W-L record. |
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Post by GBG on Nov 26, 2016 12:28:25 GMT -5
Scooter, you really not sure Malone gets three full seasons? I am, unless Tim Connelly is in trouble in the short-term, and I don't think he is. TC and MM are joined at the hip. Malone was TC's pick to replace Shaw, over Coach Mel and Mike D'Antoni. Those two were preferred by one or two people close to the org from what I've read and heard, but Josh let Tim make the call, and approved of Malone at the end of the process.
So, if Malone isn't allowed to coach the third season per his contract, then Tim may not be our GM either. They also have a very close relationship, so if Josh steps in and fires Malone after this season, it will likely be over Tim's objections. And Tim was extended this past year. Makes for a very awkward situation.
Thus, I think Malone gets three seasons to prove himself here.
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