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Post by inyourmind on Feb 24, 2017 19:25:23 GMT -5
Pretty much. All great coaches are one thing. Consistent. Malone has undeniable so been inconsistent from top to bottom this season. I mean Chandler told a reporter in his own words that. Where not in the lockeroom but we deff see what's taking place. We see what happens on the court. I saw tons of bad shots last night, and alot of bad defense yet Jokic is held accountable for it but other guys weren't? It's been like that all season with the entire roster outside of Jokic. Call out Jokic all he wants. You don't do it after his worst 2 game stretch in his first 2 months of being the guy so to speak. You don't do it in a game where the team failed to get him into scoring chances. You treat all the players the same. but you literally dont give him time holy s**t, do you expect the Nuggets to play like the Spurs? like seriously? Malone had the 2nd best offense in the league for almost two months, with two bad games now. Players were able to preform in his shitty rotation and system then. Consistency take time. But god damn, for your own good, lower you expectations like 4 posts up I literally said I didn't have high expectations. I never do. It's the Nuggets. Who says I expected them to play like the Spurs? You just toss out words and s**t nobody ever said. Whatever dude. Malone is great, I can't complain because I'm not an NBA coach, when I think he does something wrong it's because I have high expectations and expect the Nuggets to be the Spurs. You got it. |
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Post by nuggetshipster on Feb 24, 2017 19:30:54 GMT -5
i just dont get how we can complain about inconsistency when its expected. and i brought the spurs into the picture because you agreed with the man comparing Malone to Pop and Kerr. We are far from there and shouldnt hold Malone to the same standard
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Post by nuggetshipster on Feb 24, 2017 19:32:28 GMT -5
i dont mind you using this as a platform to complain about Malone, but then let me complain about you complaining about Malone. or complain about it
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Post by eathb on Feb 24, 2017 19:36:10 GMT -5
Erik just based on this season alone, what do you like that Malone has done and do you think his positives outweigh his negatives this season?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 19:40:32 GMT -5
See the problem Erik is that yes we had the 2nd best offense in the league for 2 months. Jokic had a bad game against Minny. That was on him. Last night was not on him IMO. He didn't play great, but he wasn't used in the role that allowed us to become the 2nd best offense in the league for 2 months. That's the problem. I don't think Malone is a terrible coach...he's in a near impossible situation right now. But if there's one guy that he needs to stick up for and force the vets to play through, it's Jokic.
Once Jameer figured this out he was playing like a top 10-15 PG on a nightly basis. I didn't think Jameer played bad last night, but he didn't play great. Didn't play through Jokic for the first game since Atlanta. Last night was just a very weird game. I really don't care about the loss, it's everything that happened within the loss that scares me going forward. I don't care what anyone says, Barton should not be getting more than 25 mpg. He should not be our primary offensive ball handler on the 2nd unit. If Malone changed that I'd probably b***h about Malone maybe 10-15% of the time. Just put the guys in their proper roles and if something doesn't work, change it. If Murray can't run the offense, it's Mudiay's turn. Murray barely had the ball last night in the 19 minutes he played to run the point. So what is the point of calling him a PG if he's literally not playing the PG position?
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Post by nuggetshipster on Feb 24, 2017 19:43:41 GMT -5
Erik just based on this season alone, what do you like that Malone has done and do you think his positives outweigh his negatives this season? designing the potentially 2nd best offense in the league is a good start |
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Post by nuggetshipster on Feb 24, 2017 19:45:17 GMT -5
See the problem Erik is that yes we had the 2nd best offense in the league for 2 months. Jokic had a bad game against Minny. That was on him. Last night was not on him IMO. He didn't play great, but he wasn't used in the role that allowed us to become the 2nd best offense in the league for 2 months. That's the problem. I don't think Malone is a terrible coach...he's in a near impossible situation right now. But if there's one guy that he needs to stick up for and force the vets to play through, it's Jokic. i agree, but i dont think you can blame that on the coach alone. you could just as much blame it on Jokic himself IMO. maybe he didnt get himself in the right positions, maybe he was just off, but didnt look like it because he didnt go 6-19. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 19:46:53 GMT -5
Erik just based on this season alone, what do you like that Malone has done and do you think his positives outweigh his negatives this season? designing the potentially 2nd best offense in the league is a good start On the same hand you can say not improving the worst defensive team in the league while labeling himself as a defensive minded coach. |
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Post by nuggetshipster on Feb 24, 2017 19:48:01 GMT -5
that just showes how much Malone believe in Jokic, to totally abandon his own philosphy to build a system around a 21 year old serbian kid. and then field one of the best offenses in the league
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 19:51:32 GMT -5
See the problem Erik is that yes we had the 2nd best offense in the league for 2 months. Jokic had a bad game against Minny. That was on him. Last night was not on him IMO. He didn't play great, but he wasn't used in the role that allowed us to become the 2nd best offense in the league for 2 months. That's the problem. I don't think Malone is a terrible coach...he's in a near impossible situation right now. But if there's one guy that he needs to stick up for and force the vets to play through, it's Jokic. i agree, but i dont think you can blame that on the coach alone. you could just as much blame it on Jokic himself IMO. maybe he didnt get himself in the right positions, maybe he was just off, but didnt look like it because he didnt go 6-19. See last night...I said this from the start of the game really Jokic for the first time just didn't look like he was having fun at all on the court. It was very weird. Somebody posted that it could have been that Barton stole a rebound and that Jokic hates selfish players so that probably turned him off. I have no idea if that's true...but Jokic is going to have to learn that every NBA team is going to have a selfish guy. If you go back and watch the Knicks game, Malone ran a play out of half where he had Chandler set a low screen on Porzingis and had Jokic come from the elbow to the low post. He got great positioning and had an easy bucket. Haven't seen that play ran since. Could be because KP is very soft but just from an eye test perspective it seemed like the game plan to start was get Gallo the ball because he had a mismatch. When McLemore got subbed out, we didn't run through Jokic for some reason. Jameer/Jokic in the high screen and rolls has been destroying teams lately. Not sure why they barely ran it last night, but I guess there were less opportunities because of less minutes. The only thing I saw negative from Jokic on O last night is when we had a cutter cut, Jokic's defender sagged off him and he pulled up to shoot but just faked even though he had space. Those are the shots he 100% has to take. I think that Minny game affected his confidence a little bit on his shot. We're gonna find out a lot about Malone/Jokic tonight. If Jokic drops 30+ and has a great game...perhaps Malone was right to call him out to fire him up. I would hope Malone would know what to do to get his players fired up. But if Jokic has another bad game...we are in deep, deep trouble in more ways than one. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2017 19:53:17 GMT -5
that just showes how much Malone believe in Jokic, to totally abandon his own philosphy to build a system around a 21 year old serbian kid. and then field one of the best offenses in the league Sure, and Malone 100% deserves credit for that. I hate that it took him so long to figure it out but it's easy to say that when we saw what we saw after 12/15. The problem I had with Malone last night was that he didn't force the guys to play through Jokic, and if he did and saw they weren't doing so they should have been subbed out. That and him bringing Gary/Gallo in for 2 minutes at the end of the first quarter after taking them out at the 4:30 minute mark. It was very strange and the first time I saw him do it all year. He has to come up with a consistent rotation and can't play guys for 2 minute spans lol |
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Post by eathb on Feb 24, 2017 20:16:46 GMT -5
that just showes how much Malone believe in Jokic, to totally abandon his own philosphy to build a system around a 21 year old serbian kid. and then field one of the best offenses in the league Sure, and Malone 100% deserves credit for that. I hate that it took him so long to figure it out but it's easy to say that when we saw what we saw after 12/15. The problem I had with Malone last night was that he didn't force the guys to play through Jokic, and if he did and saw they weren't doing so they should have been subbed out. That and him bringing Gary/Gallo in for 2 minutes at the end of the first quarter after taking them out at the 4:30 minute mark. It was very strange and the first time I saw him do it all year. He has to come up with a consistent rotation and can't play guys for 2 minute spans lol I'm not saying we should discredit Malone but honest question, do you think Malone can coach a top 10 offense without a player of Jokic's caliber? Like George Karl (yes George Karl), Pops, Kerr for example, you can be pretty confident if you moved them to any above average roster that they'd have a top 10 offense in the league. If Malone was the head coach of say, Milwaukee (#10 in offensive efficiency atm), do you think Milwaukee would have a top 10 offense in the league? I'm throwing that out there because when Jokic goes to the bench and before Jokic was starting, we were actually bottom 5 in the league in offensive efficiency. |
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Post by inyourmind on Feb 24, 2017 20:27:38 GMT -5
i dont mind you using this as a platform to complain about Malone, but then let me complain about you complaining about Malone. or complain about it Fair enough. I feel like I'm as positive as I've been with the Nuggets from a future stand point. Love what they have with the young. With Jokic's mentality he's showed early in his career, and the inconsistency's and mistakes Malone's made it's worrying. Malone made a mistake with Jokic, but he corrected it somewhat. That's good. Last night he IMO made a mistake not letting Jokic struggle, not getting him involved, than talking to the media about it. If he does what he did earlier in the season and corrects it? I'm back to whatever on Malone. If this kinda thing pops up and you see Jokic play 26 minutes from time to time, and he doesn't step in when the offense isn't getting him the ball? IMO that's a major mistake. I've said time and time again TC put him in a bad spot. Malone just hasn't done himself any favors. He's not an established coach. Being an NBA coach is an awful job. |
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Post by game on Feb 24, 2017 20:34:53 GMT -5
I didn't watch last night's game, I only heard his postgame comments about Jokic. I had no problem with them. I keep going back to this - which of the 7 teams in front of the Nuggets in the standings right now would we be in front of if Malone didn't suck so much? Look around the league at the other teams relying heavily on 22-and-under guys. The guys who people compare Jokic to. How many of those teams are showing the Nuggets how it should be done if Malone didn't suck so much? Milwaukee? Minnesota? Lakers? Knicks? Sixers? I think we blame the coach because there's nowhere else to assign blame. Most on here are afraid to point out that some nights Jokic doesn't play well. He didn't play well against Towns last week. Murray, by all accounts, was awful last night. That's life with young players. If you want the young guys to get experience, you have to live with the ups and down. Odd wins when things click (Golden State), and odd losses when they don't (last night). We wouldn't be ahead of any teams probably, which isn't the point. Do you think our record wouldn't be better had Jokic not been the guy since game 1? Not trying to be a dick but do me a favor and check our record with Jokic playing 30+ minutes vs him not playing those minutes. Jokic didn't play well at all last night yet he was +5. Had 10 boards, was getting killed defensively like everyone on the floor, but he wasn't involved scoring at all. 7 FGA mostly on broken plays, stuff he had to rush himself. Check the record when he's heavily involved vs when he's not. Nuggets are gunna Nugget regardless. Anybody who's been a long time fan knows this. Nobody should have high expectations. Malone has made a ton of mistakes this year, and the culture of the team has had it's fair share of drama, effort has been questionable, schemes for most of the years outside of letting Jokic finally create for others has been pretty bad as well. Listen, I don't view Malone as blameless, but at some point we have to acknowledge that what we're exposed to as fans is a very small amount of this story. Especially with helping 19-22 year olds grow into a man's league. It's not all just box scores. I'm an analytics guy, but there's a real human element in taking kids from the inner city who are used to nothing, or kids from other countries who are adapting to American culture and helping them thrive. The first part of the season was incredibly puzzling, and I wish Jokic started from the beginning. You get no disagreement there. Can't you pretty easily tell yourself a story where Malone isn't just a bumbling moron? Maybe there was a clear directive from last season into training camp to play these guys together and see how it works? We have literally no idea what went into that decision making. I can tell you this. If Malone just did what he pleased, Emmanuel Mudiay probably wouldn't have played much at all over the last year and a half. Jamal Murray would probably have some DNP-CD's. There are organizational directives that the coach has to accommodate. Plain and simple. Maybe Malone did the Jokic/Nurkic thing on his own. Maybe he literally thought Nurkic should start because Nurkic is better. Or... maybe there was buy-in up to Josh Kroenke that we have two young pieces that are both high value guys, and we have to see these guys play together. Based on what we saw from Nurkic when he didn't play, they may have made a decision to roll with Nurkic as a starter because they knew Jokic is humble and a good enough kid to roll with coming off the bench, while clearly Nurkic was a mess mentally. Eventually they made the right decision, and Nurkic went off the rails. I could argue they should have started Nurkic and dealt him before they benched him, but that would be a front office issue. Nikola Jokic said literally the other day he's exhausted physically. Just said it out lout. Didn't give the usual player response. Perhaps... that's a factor in why he's not playing massive minutes? Malone being tough on him is only a bad thing if you don't know the other side of it, and you have a Nurkic or Cousins who's going to quit when pushed a little bit. If he's open to coaching and constructive feedback, that's a really good thing. That's not a bad thing. Quit coddling him. We want him to take coaching, not be fearful of him being criticized. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm not saying you're right. It just feels too easy to say the coach sucks, when I can tell a more believable story by assuming there were quite a few variables they're dancing around. Just a guess. The same thing you're doing. Malone has some rotations that drive me crazy, so I'm not just defending everything he does. I just think we scapegoat coaches when the team isn't even closer to being ready to perform above where their record is right now. It's no secret I put more blame at the feet of our front office who are risk-adverse and indecisive even though they should not have a good direction to build this roster around Jokic. They'd rather grab headlines with failed Dwyane Wade or Paul George pitches. If we come out of this season with the 8 seed and a really solid sense of where we are, what moves we need to make, and next steps, that's a successful season to me. We're nowhere near good enough to beat any of these other playoff teams, and I'm totally cool with that. Cheers everybody. Hopefully we win tonight and we all go from "blow it up" to "Golden State isn't untouchable", as fans tend to do as the team has its ups and downs. |
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Post by inyourmind on Feb 24, 2017 20:47:28 GMT -5
Game I agree with alot of what you said. I don't think Malone is a bumbling idiot. I think he has no track record. I think being an NBA coach is impossible, even at times for great coaches. I think he's made clear mistakes that are obvious to me, maybe not to others, I could be wrong clearly. I've seen inconsistent rotations that IMO has led to inconsistent performances. I've seen him hold certain players accountable on the court, while either encouraging or ignoring other players for the same things. I don't know which, just know that some guys get punished for the same things that others do. I feel like individual talent trumps most things in the NBA. I'd rather one superstar than coach Malone. I think there's coaches who could do incredibly creative things with a guy like Jokic. I don't really agree with how Malone has treated him, just like I didn't agree with how he dealt with Nurkic.
Chandler speaking out about the inconsistency kinda fueled the fire for me. I was bitching about the inconsistent roles/minutes from day 1 and he kinda confirmed that IMO. Farid got a little pissy earlier in the year, Nurk. It's not like there hasn't been signs. I just don't see someone who has control of the offense out there. Maybe that his coaching style. How he deals with it, or the players have tuned him out. I mean with this group who knows. Everynight guys basically just do whatever they want. Kings game was a example of them just jacking up shots and not playing through Jokic which is what led to our best basketball. It's just annoying. Barton was grabbing the ball outta people's hands, waving them off, doing whatever and like -27 and Jokic while struggling was playing team ball and +5 and despite being bad was still positively impacting the game. One got sat, the other didn't. That kinda thing has happened all year.
I hope Malone turns the ship around. Starting tonight. Maybe he will. FO created this situation, players at one point this year where we had historically bad defense for a few weeks certainly quit trying. Everyone deserves some blame. I just think going forward we obviously need to make tweaks to the roster and at the same time it's not unrealistic to think Malone might not be the guy for the job. He seems like an awesome dude so I hope that isn't the case but given what we've seen I think it's a fair question.
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Post by altitudesickness on Mar 1, 2017 3:51:48 GMT -5
Where did the "Malone is a defensive minded coach" narrative come from? I'm not suggesting it's false, actually curious. Was it from his time at the Kings? I feel like a season and a half is kind of short for a coach to get such a label considering he basically coached 1 set of players during that time.
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Post by truch on Mar 1, 2017 4:42:00 GMT -5
I think it was based in his constant rhetoric of preaching defense but so far in his coaching career he has proven to be otherwise
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Post by josh on Mar 1, 2017 5:15:53 GMT -5
Where did the "Malone is a defensive minded coach" narrative come from? I'm not suggesting it's false, actually curious. Was it from his time at the Kings? I feel like a season and a half is kind of short for a coach to get such a label considering he basically coached 1 set of players during that time. Im pretty sure from his time in CLE and GSW where he ran the defense... he also said the other day that he is a 'defensive guy' |
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Post by nuggetshipster on Mar 1, 2017 6:44:01 GMT -5
I think it was based in his constant rhetoric of preaching defense but so far in his coaching career he has proven to be otherwise Do you realize Malone was an assistent coach for many years? |
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Post by brick2 on Mar 1, 2017 7:47:16 GMT -5
Malone fell into the same trap that Shaw did, which is to assume that this squad could excel defensively and still score a lot. And I'd pin at least some of that, maybe most of it on the FO. After the GS playoff series they decided that defense was the only way to win in the playoffs and hired coaches that preached the same gospel.
At some point this year though Malone realized that the offense is what's going to win more games and went with it. I like that he adapted. Maybe a bit late but it shows that he's not set in stone like some coaches can be. Say what you want about Karl but one of the things I liked best about him (pre-Sacramento) was that he was great at figuring out how to use the players he had.
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