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Post by famicommander on Nov 12, 2024 16:18:34 GMT -5
We didn't even need to do anything fancy. We could easily have Jay Huff, Reggie Jackson, Collin Gillespie, and Justin Holiday instead of PJ Hall, Spencer Jones, Hunter Tyson, and Jalen Pickett. It would be marginally more expensive but we'd have Holiday and Reggie on expiring deals instead of being committed to Tyson and Pickett for another year and we'd still be under the 2nd apron.
Those are moves that don't even require us to have the foresight to know how washed Saric is or to know how huge Huff would blow up this year. Huff was freaking free. A two-way and a restricted free agent who signed initially on another two-way deal, which we could've matched for zero cap hit.
And hopefully in this scenario you don't even have to play Reggie any meaningful minutes. But I'd still feel much better about having to go to him for a 6 game stretch if Jamal and Russ go down than trying to watch Braun/Strawther/Pickett/Alexander run the show in their stead.
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Post by GBG on Nov 12, 2024 16:23:31 GMT -5
Plumlee tok the minimum to be a backup in Phoenix and not win a ring. Pretty sure he would have taken the minimum to be a backup in Denver and win a ring KCP/THJ + Plumlee >>> Saric What even is this discussion. I didn't know Plumlee signed for the minimum. He would have been a perfect fit tbh and has played with Westbrook too. We should probably start looking around at really bad teams and check buyout candidates at the C position. Calvin swung and missed on Saric. No other way around it. A week ago, in a GT, you wrote that PWat wasn’t gonna be worth anything more than situational playing time, that he wasn’t that good. Then, he had a big second half and helped us win. Now, ten games into the season, you are declaring Saric a whiff by Booth. Maybe you’ll be right, or maybe it will get him going the way your giving up on Watson as anything more than a situational bench guy got him going. I remind you Saric has played 44 minutes in 5 games. That’s a tiny sample size. He looked awful, of course, which is why he’s been glued to the bench since. But stuff happens over the course of 82 games. And either Saric might have his moments, or maybe he’s moved before the deadline for a better fit at backup C, the way Hart was move for McGee. Of course, that doesn’t guarantee that Malone will use the new guy, just as he didn’t use Javale either. My point is that it’s really still very early and we shouldn’t jump to conclusions. |
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Post by famicommander on Nov 12, 2024 16:26:03 GMT -5
Saric looked dreadful in preseason too, and I pointed it out repeatedly and was told it didn't matter.
The last time he looked like an okay player in an NBA uniform was early February of last season.
For the record, I'm in favor of circling back to him and seeing if he can play his way out of this. He's a known headcase who has done this before in his career. But there's more reason to be concerned than just the 44 regular season minutes he's played here so far.
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Post by GBG on Nov 12, 2024 16:31:32 GMT -5
Saric looked dreadful in preseason too, and I pointed it out repeatedly and was told it didn't matter. The last time he looked like an okay player in an NBA uniform was early February of last season. For the record, I'm in favor of circling back to him and seeing if he can play his way out of this. He's a known headcase who has done this before in his career. But there's more reason to be concerned than just the 44 regular season minutes he's played here so far. Maybe. Of course, February was only 9 months ago, and he’s just 31 with 10 years of experience. Seems unlikely to me that he’d become washed in a mere 9 months. He was a solid role player before that. Clearly, he came into camp out of shape. Maybe Malone told him to get his ass in shape (or however New Yorker coaches speak to their underachieving guys), and that he will get another chance in rotation after he meets some fitness goals they’re looking for him to achieve. |
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Post by famicommander on Nov 12, 2024 16:33:57 GMT -5
Saric looked dreadful in preseason too, and I pointed it out repeatedly and was told it didn't matter. The last time he looked like an okay player in an NBA uniform was early February of last season. For the record, I'm in favor of circling back to him and seeing if he can play his way out of this. He's a known headcase who has done this before in his career. But there's more reason to be concerned than just the 44 regular season minutes he's played here so far. Maybe. Of course, February was only 9 months ago, and he’s just 31 with 10 years of experience. Seems unlikely to me that he’d become washed in a mere 9 months. He was a solid role player before that. Clearly, he came into camp out of shape. Maybe Malone told him to get his ass in shape (or however New Yorker coaches speak to their underachieving guys), and that he will get another chance in rotation after he meets some fitness goals they’re looking for him to achieve. His overall play has taken a serious downturn since his ACL injury, though. That has necessitated the move from PF to C as his mobility has declined. Since the ACL tear he's pretty much only useful if he's knocking down 3s, and he's very streaky in that regard. |
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Post by GBG on Nov 12, 2024 16:37:57 GMT -5
Maybe. Of course, February was only 9 months ago, and he’s just 31 with 10 years of experience. Seems unlikely to me that he’d become washed in a mere 9 months. He was a solid role player before that. Clearly, he came into camp out of shape. Maybe Malone told him to get his ass in shape (or however New Yorker coaches speak to their underachieving guys), and that he will get another chance in rotation after he meets some fitness goals they’re looking for him to achieve. His overall play has taken a serious downturn since his ACL injury, though. That has necessitated the move from PF to C as his mobility has declined. Since the ACL tear he's pretty much only useful if he's knocking down 3s, and he's very streaky in that regard. I will note I didn’t like the signing much since I’ve never been much of a Saric fan, even before his ACL injury. Not even sure why they targeted him (maybe a summer buddy of Jokic’s?). Anyway, either he gets his act together or his contract will be moved to help fill holes by midseason. |
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Post by famicommander on Nov 12, 2024 16:38:59 GMT -5
His overall play has taken a serious downturn since his ACL injury, though. That has necessitated the move from PF to C as his mobility has declined. Since the ACL tear he's pretty much only useful if he's knocking down 3s, and he's very streaky in that regard. I will note I didn’t like the signing much since I’ve never been much of a Saric fan, even before his ACL injury. Not even sure why they targeted him (maybe a summer buddy of Jokic’s?). Anyway, either he gets his act together or his contract will be moved to help fill holes by midseason. He has a player option next year. How the hell are we going to move him? We don't have infinite second round picks to attach. |
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Post by LotharBraunBrownBryant on Nov 12, 2024 16:48:22 GMT -5
Post-ACL, Saric's rate-adjusted numbers were comparable to or better than his career averages pretty much across the board.
It wasn't until February of last year that he started suddenly looking useless. Shooting and rebounding both fell off a cliff. And there wasn't a new injury; he had a "general illness" (sounded like a stomach bug or something of that nature) that made him miss a couple games, and then he just ... IDK ... something was off.
So is the ~25 game sample size we have of him from then on during GSW's season plus here enough to say "wow, so washed"? I don't really think so. It looks to me like he might be inside his own head, might have a conditioning/discipline issue, but I don't see the connection with any sort of ongoing injury that would make me say "he's washed" the way, for example, Barton was after the lower leg / ankle stuff.
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Post by nuggetshipster on Nov 12, 2024 16:48:36 GMT -5
I didn't know Plumlee signed for the minimum. He would have been a perfect fit tbh and has played with Westbrook too. We should probably start looking around at really bad teams and check buyout candidates at the C position. Calvin swung and missed on Saric. No other way around it. A week ago, in a GT, you wrote that PWat wasn’t gonna be worth anything more than situational playing time, that he wasn’t that good. Then, he had a big second half and helped us win. Now, ten games into the season, you are declaring Saric a whiff by Booth. Maybe you’ll be right, or maybe it will get him going the way your giving up on Watson as anything more than a situational bench guy got him going. I remind you Saric has played 44 minutes in 5 games. That’s a tiny sample size. He looked awful, of course, which is why he’s been glued to the bench since. But stuff happens over the course of 82 games. And either Saric might have his moments, or maybe he’s moved before the deadline for a better fit at backup C, the way Hart was move for McGee. Of course, that doesn’t guarantee that Malone will use the new guy, just as he didn’t use Javale either. My point is that it’s really still very early and we shouldn’t jump to conclusions. Ofc you can jump to the conclusion that KCP/THJ + Plumlee would have been better than just saric. Purely basketball wise and not KSE money wise |
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Post by GBG on Nov 12, 2024 16:50:11 GMT -5
I will note I didn’t like the signing much since I’ve never been much of a Saric fan, even before his ACL injury. Not even sure why they targeted him (maybe a summer buddy of Jokic’s?). Anyway, either he gets his act together or his contract will be moved to help fill holes by midseason. He has a player option next year. How the hell are we going to move him? We don't have infinite second round picks to attach. Because he’s not completely worthless? 2022/23 season Averaged 6.4/3.6 in 14 mpg on 46/39/83 shooting in 57 games. 2023/24 season Averaged 8.0/4.4 in 17 mpg on 47/38/85 shooting in 64 games. He missed the 2021/22 season to ACL surgery. Those numbers point to a solid utilityman big. Definitely worth his contract IF he replicates his last two seasons, the second of which he had slightly better numbers, one year further removed from his ACL rehab. There was no reason to think Saric would suddenly fall off a cliff as a player. |
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Post by nuggetshipster on Nov 12, 2024 16:52:50 GMT -5
Plumlee tok the minimum to be a backup in Phoenix and not win a ring. Pretty sure he would have taken the minimum to be a backup in Denver and win a ring KCP/THJ + Plumlee >>> Saric What even is this discussion. I didn't know Plumlee signed for the minimum. He would have been a perfect fit tbh and has played with Westbrook too. We should probably start looking around at really bad teams and check buyout candidates at the C position. Calvin swung and missed on Saric. No other way around it. This doesnt even cover how much of a blatant mistake it was to not get something out of KCP Sure Plumle > Saric alone probably. Then you have THJ/KCP on top of that. Dont have to fire Booth. But people with their heads in sand |
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Post by GBG on Nov 12, 2024 16:53:35 GMT -5
Post-ACL, Saric's rate-adjusted numbers were comparable to or better than his career averages pretty much across the board. It wasn't until February of last year that he started suddenly looking useless. Shooting and rebounding both fell off a cliff. And there wasn't a new injury; he had a "general illness" (sounded like a stomach bug or something of that nature) that made him miss a couple games, and then he just ... IDK ... something was off. So is the ~25 game sample size we have of him from then on during GSW's season plus here enough to say "wow, so washed"? I don't really think so. It looks to me like he might be inside his own head, might have a conditioning/discipline issue, but I don't see the connection with any sort of ongoing injury that would make me say "he's washed" the way, for example, Barton was after the lower leg / ankle stuff. And those 2022/23 stats I just posted include the post-February falloff and disappearance of Saric’s game. Still solid overall. |
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Post by famicommander on Nov 12, 2024 16:54:06 GMT -5
He has a player option next year. How the hell are we going to move him? We don't have infinite second round picks to attach. Because he’s not completely worthless? 2022/23 season Averaged 6.4/3.6 in 14 mpg on 46/39/83 shooting in 57 games. 2023/24 season Averaged 8.0/4.4 in 17 mpg on 47/38/85 shooting in 64 games. He missed the 2021/22 season to ACL surgery. Those numbers point to a solid utilityman big. Definitely worth his contract IF he replicates his last two seasons, the second of which he had slightly better numbers, one year further removed from his ACL rehab. There was no reason to think Saric would suddenly fall off a cliff as a player. After I read about his headcase issues I waded into the online communities of the teams he played for post injuries. The consensus among all of them was that he had become worse than useless on defense and his mobility was compromised. It's not always easy to see in the stats, especially for bench players, but I believe having to play C instead of PF is an overall drag on his value as a player. Of course I didn't know any of this before he got here. But when I saw how out of shape he was in preseason I did a deep dive to see if he'd done this before, and those are the impressions I came up with. Hopefully he proves them all wrong. |
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Post by Ring on Nov 12, 2024 16:55:37 GMT -5
I didn't know Plumlee signed for the minimum. He would have been a perfect fit tbh and has played with Westbrook too. We should probably start looking around at really bad teams and check buyout candidates at the C position. Calvin swung and missed on Saric. No other way around it. A week ago, in a GT, you wrote that PWat wasn’t gonna be worth anything more than situational playing time, that he wasn’t that good. Then, he had a big second half and helped us win. Now, ten games into the season, you are declaring Saric a whiff by Booth. Maybe you’ll be right, or maybe it will get him going the way your giving up on Watson as anything more than a situational bench guy got him going. I remind you Saric has played 44 minutes in 5 games. That’s a tiny sample size. He looked awful, of course, which is why he’s been glued to the bench since. But stuff happens over the course of 82 games. And either Saric might have his moments, or maybe he’s moved before the deadline for a better fit at backup C, the way Hart was move for McGee. Of course, that doesn’t guarantee that Malone will use the new guy, just as he didn’t use Javale either. My point is that it’s really still very early and we shouldn’t jump to conclusions. I also have said that I'm a bit concerned about Watson once AG comes back. I don't think it's a coincidence Watson has broken out again playing with the starters. Saric just doesn't fit with the bench. He's a really bad defender and needs the ball to be effective. His absolute best usage realistically is just a pick and pop guy. |
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Post by GBG on Nov 12, 2024 17:00:24 GMT -5
A week ago, in a GT, you wrote that PWat wasn’t gonna be worth anything more than situational playing time, that he wasn’t that good. Then, he had a big second half and helped us win. Now, ten games into the season, you are declaring Saric a whiff by Booth. Maybe you’ll be right, or maybe it will get him going the way your giving up on Watson as anything more than a situational bench guy got him going. I remind you Saric has played 44 minutes in 5 games. That’s a tiny sample size. He looked awful, of course, which is why he’s been glued to the bench since. But stuff happens over the course of 82 games. And either Saric might have his moments, or maybe he’s moved before the deadline for a better fit at backup C, the way Hart was move for McGee. Of course, that doesn’t guarantee that Malone will use the new guy, just as he didn’t use Javale either. My point is that it’s really still very early and we shouldn’t jump to conclusions. I also have said that I'm a bit concerned about Watson once AG comes back. I don't think it's a coincidence Watson has broken out again playing with the starters. Saric just doesn't fit with the bench. He's a really bad defender and needs the ball to be effective. His absolute best usage realistically is just a pick and pop guy. I think Watson should have alleviated our concerns, after his 40 minute 16/5 game against Mavs, which included a second straight game winning block at the end. All young players are inconsistent except the top ones in the league. Watson is gaining valuable reps and experience playing with starters while AG is out. It should really help his confidence and overall development as a player. |
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Post by game on Nov 12, 2024 17:38:38 GMT -5
I believe you are going to great efforts to act like perfectly reasonable skepticism and frustration for a lack of urgency from this organization with a top tenish all-time player is overreaction. I think folks who follow the NBA closely but are not Nuggets fanatics would share our viewpoint, not yours. But obviously as fans, we tend to let reality twist into what we want it to be and we apparently we b***h incessantly at anybody who strays from that (whether they're on the board at that time or not). But that's the landscape everywhere these days. Put on your blue and gold and red hat and twist reality to always align with what you want reality to be. Your right as a fan. Sports are not that serious. There's no reason whatsoever that Aaron Gordon wouldn't be extended if KCP was back. Well. Except for the one that we have to pretend isn't egregious behavior in Nikola Jokic's prime and is just agreed upon table stakes. Of course, you have the right to your opinion. But it’s not a feather in your cap to say it comports with national media takes. National media is lazy and casual in their Nuggets knowledge, such as Ramona Shelbourne writing that the Nuggets “underachieved” in the playoffs in 2021 and 2022, ie between bubble and championship run. Did she expect a deep run without Murray in 2021? Or without Murray and MPJ in 2022? Maybe she did. Maybe she thought Facu and Austin Rivers should get us to WCF because of MVP Jokic! In any event, I saw many mistakes in her article, factual and otherwise. Other national media doesn’t really look deeply at the team, are biased toward coastal and big market teams, and it’s a false narrative that they keep pushing about Booth letting 3 guys go the past two summers in Brown, Green, and KCP. As if we had a choice in the matter with Brown, and as if Green was a difference maker we couldn’t do without. Just causal fan coastal media takes. Your argument against Booth is not good if you have to lean on national media to support your case, IMHO. And I’m entitled to my opinion too. You're extremely bothered by my opinion. You even are worried about my opinion when I'm not on the board. I don't give a s**t about your opinion and happily let you go about your business. That's the difference. While your Truth Social mad lib about national media and coastal elites and here's one example that I will treat as universal to everybody because I'm lazy and can't formulate a subject matter argument is compelling to some, I'm not particularly interested or moved to continue this anymore. People outside of Denver who cover basketball have pros and cons. Sometimes a perspective that isn't extremely biased, like yours, is informative. Some others are not. I never said a word about ESPN, which has a different business model than being accurate and informative. There's also the fact that some people are just much smarter basketball minds than you or I. So if we can find those people, it's at least interesting to hear what they have to say to challenge our own biased thinking. But help me with this, GBG, so we can go full circle. Who was the chief participant in that Ramona Shelburne piece that only seemed to be inaccurate in ways that made Malone or even Connelly look bad? There certainly weren't inaccuracies on the bookshelf. Or the very misleading number of players brought onto the roster. I don't recall anything that could be considered a criticism of the front office. Sounds like we've found our source of nonsense, to me. FCB. |
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Post by GBG on Nov 12, 2024 18:20:20 GMT -5
Of course, you have the right to your opinion. But it’s not a feather in your cap to say it comports with national media takes. National media is lazy and casual in their Nuggets knowledge, such as Ramona Shelbourne writing that the Nuggets “underachieved” in the playoffs in 2021 and 2022, ie between bubble and championship run. Did she expect a deep run without Murray in 2021? Or without Murray and MPJ in 2022? Maybe she did. Maybe she thought Facu and Austin Rivers should get us to WCF because of MVP Jokic! In any event, I saw many mistakes in her article, factual and otherwise. Other national media doesn’t really look deeply at the team, are biased toward coastal and big market teams, and it’s a false narrative that they keep pushing about Booth letting 3 guys go the past two summers in Brown, Green, and KCP. As if we had a choice in the matter with Brown, and as if Green was a difference maker we couldn’t do without. Just causal fan coastal media takes. Your argument against Booth is not good if you have to lean on national media to support your case, IMHO. And I’m entitled to my opinion too. You're extremely bothered by my opinion. You even are worried about my opinion when I'm not on the board. I don't give a s**t about your opinion and happily let you go about your business. That's the difference. While your Truth Social mad lib about national media and coastal elites and here's one example that I will treat as universal to everybody because I'm lazy and can't formulate a subject matter argument is compelling to some, I'm not particularly interested or moved to continue this anymore. People outside of Denver who cover basketball have pros and cons. Sometimes a perspective that isn't extremely biased, like yours, is informative. Some others are not. I never said a word about ESPN, which has a different business model than being accurate and informative. There's also the fact that some people are just much smarter basketball minds than you or I. So if we can find those people, it's at least interesting to hear what they have to say to challenge our own biased thinking. But help me with this, GBG, so we can go full circle. Who was the chief participant in that Ramona Shelburne piece that only seemed to be inaccurate in ways that made Malone or even Connelly look bad? There certainly weren't inaccuracies on the bookshelf. Or the very misleading number of players brought onto the roster. I don't recall anything that could be considered a criticism of the front office. Sounds like we've found our source of nonsense, to me. FCB. I’m not engaging in a conversation with an angry guy, and I’m not bothered by your opinion. You have the right to it, as I wrote before. You’re too emotional and angry, and in this difficult period for many people based on what happened a week ago, I think it’s best to see the positive in other topics or not engage with negative people. I wrote a sincere reply that you quoted above. Rock and Lothar seemed to like it. I stand by what I wrote, and if you can’t be respectful and instead claim I’m coming from Truth Social anti-elite perspective, then you don’t know me and I am done replying to your toxin. |
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Post by game on Nov 12, 2024 22:51:22 GMT -5
You're extremely bothered by my opinion. You even are worried about my opinion when I'm not on the board. I don't give a s**t about your opinion and happily let you go about your business. That's the difference. While your Truth Social mad lib about national media and coastal elites and here's one example that I will treat as universal to everybody because I'm lazy and can't formulate a subject matter argument is compelling to some, I'm not particularly interested or moved to continue this anymore. People outside of Denver who cover basketball have pros and cons. Sometimes a perspective that isn't extremely biased, like yours, is informative. Some others are not. I never said a word about ESPN, which has a different business model than being accurate and informative. There's also the fact that some people are just much smarter basketball minds than you or I. So if we can find those people, it's at least interesting to hear what they have to say to challenge our own biased thinking. But help me with this, GBG, so we can go full circle. Who was the chief participant in that Ramona Shelburne piece that only seemed to be inaccurate in ways that made Malone or even Connelly look bad? There certainly weren't inaccuracies on the bookshelf. Or the very misleading number of players brought onto the roster. I don't recall anything that could be considered a criticism of the front office. Sounds like we've found our source of nonsense, to me. FCB. I’m not engaging in a conversation with an angry guy, and I’m not bothered by your opinion. You have the right to it, as I wrote before. You’re too emotional and angry, and in this difficult period for many people based on what happened a week ago, I think it’s best to see the positive in other topics or not engage with negative people. I wrote a sincere reply that you quoted above. Rock and Lothar seemed to like it. I stand by what I wrote, and if you can’t be respectful and instead claim I’m coming from Truth Social anti-elite perspective, then you don’t know me and I am done replying to your toxin. Off the top of my head you called me and/or others who posted about displeasure about specific actions by the front office glib, malcontents, "blowing smoke up our asses", pushing an agenda, crazed, spoiled, embarrassing, children, and now for me specifically, angry and emotional. Don't tell lies about me, I won't tell truths about you. You're not new to this board and I'm not either, even if I'm not around as often these days. You routinely use personal intelligence insults or dismissive language as opposed to dealing with subject matter. I checked back in because of a win streak and there is GBG bringing up my name when I wasn't even on the board (spoiler: to insult me, not my argument, naturally). So let me find a 0 Days Since I Used Personal Insults sign to help you hold yourself accountable with your newfound religion. At least a violin. I'll happily bow out and leave you to it. Honor system that you'll keep the sign updated when you fall off the wagon. |
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Post by GBG on Nov 12, 2024 23:35:03 GMT -5
I’m not engaging in a conversation with an angry guy, and I’m not bothered by your opinion. You have the right to it, as I wrote before. You’re too emotional and angry, and in this difficult period for many people based on what happened a week ago, I think it’s best to see the positive in other topics or not engage with negative people. I wrote a sincere reply that you quoted above. Rock and Lothar seemed to like it. I stand by what I wrote, and if you can’t be respectful and instead claim I’m coming from Truth Social anti-elite perspective, then you don’t know me and I am done replying to your toxin. Off the top of my head you called me and/or others who posted about displeasure about specific actions by the front office glib, malcontents, "blowing smoke up our asses", pushing an agenda, crazed, spoiled, embarrassing, children, and now for me specifically, angry and emotional. Don't tell lies about me, I won't tell truths about you. You're not new to this board and I'm not either, even if I'm not around as often these days. You routinely use personal intelligence insults or dismissive language as opposed to dealing with subject matter. I checked back in because of a win streak and there is GBG bringing up my name when I wasn't even on the board (spoiler: to insult me, not my argument, naturally). So let me find a 0 Days Since I Used Personal Insults sign to help you hold yourself accountable with your newfound religion. At least a violin. I'll happily bow out and leave you to it. Honor system that you'll keep the sign updated when you fall off the wagon. You’re sort of proving my point with this response. Two moderators, rock and Lothar, liked my post that got you bent out of shape. So take your complaints to them. |
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Post by sawyeral on Nov 12, 2024 23:52:02 GMT -5
I also have said that I'm a bit concerned about Watson once AG comes back. I don't think it's a coincidence Watson has broken out again playing with the starters. Saric just doesn't fit with the bench. He's a really bad defender and needs the ball to be effective. His absolute best usage realistically is just a pick and pop guy. I think Watson should have alleviated our concerns, after his 40 minute 16/5 game against Mavs, which included a second straight game winning block at the end. All young players are inconsistent except the top ones in the league. Watson is gaining valuable reps and experience playing with starters while AG is out. It should really help his confidence and overall development as a player. One week alleviates any Peyton Watson concerns. Meanwhile it’s apparently way too early to be concerned about Saric? I see no way we can trade Saric for value without adding our 2031 FRP. Your boy Booth gave away all our 2nds like Halloween candy this offseason. |
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