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Post by GBG on Nov 11, 2024 14:09:00 GMT -5
Letting KCP walk was unequivocally a great move. Not replacing him with an emergency vet like Holiday or Walker is a dumb move. We are going to need a 5th guard (again) at some point this season and it ain't Trey or Pick. Should've trusted Strawther to beat those guys out. I think we will eventually get that 5th guard. Pickett’s breakout game yesterday will hopefully create a bit of interest in him in some random front office somewhere, and we end up trading him for a future 2nd round pick. If not, we could stretch him and open up a roster spot for the vet we need. We also need better backup C play, whether from someone now on the roster, or someone we acquire later. |
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Post by famicommander on Nov 11, 2024 14:12:37 GMT -5
Letting KCP walk was unequivocally a great move. Not replacing him with an emergency vet like Holiday or Walker is a dumb move. We are going to need a 5th guard (again) at some point this season and it ain't Trey or Pick. Should've trusted Strawther to beat those guys out. I think we will eventually get that 5th guard. Pickett’s breakout game yesterday will hopefully create a bit of interest in him in some random front office somewhere, and we end up trading him for a future 2nd round pick. If not, we could stretch him and open up a roster spot for the vet we need. We also need better backup C play, whether from someone now on the roster, or someone we acquire later. "Eventually" isn't good enough. The longer we wait to pick someone up the harder it will be to integrate them into our system and the more expensive it will be. |
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Post by Ring on Nov 11, 2024 14:18:29 GMT -5
I think we will eventually get that 5th guard. Pickett’s breakout game yesterday will hopefully create a bit of interest in him in some random front office somewhere, and we end up trading him for a future 2nd round pick. If not, we could stretch him and open up a roster spot for the vet we need. We also need better backup C play, whether from someone now on the roster, or someone we acquire later. "Eventually" isn't good enough. The longer we wait to pick someone up the harder it will be to integrate them into our system and the more expensive it will be. Is Holiday even signed? Also Murray just missed time and the Nuggets didn't skip a beat outside of the ending to the Minnesota game. And that game is one that you're simply not winning without Murrays execution in the clutch. |
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Post by famicommander on Nov 11, 2024 14:22:01 GMT -5
"Eventually" isn't good enough. The longer we wait to pick someone up the harder it will be to integrate them into our system and the more expensive it will be. Is Holiday even signed? Also Murray just missed time and the Nuggets didn't skip a beat outside of the ending to the Minnesota game. And that game is one that you're simply not winning without Murrays execution in the clutch. No. Word on the street is that Holiday has had offers from noncontending teams but is hoping a contender calls. Both the Pacers and Warriors have kicked the tires and brought him in for workouts, but no contract offers yet. However, the Warriors have an open roster spot they're currently using for cap space purposes that he could sign to at any moment. |
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Post by game on Nov 11, 2024 14:30:01 GMT -5
the one error is the Nuggets didn't trade Pope for a pick. but that necessitated taking back a Tim Hardaway Jr sized contract (which wasn't happening for reasons that are obvious) because teams with space could've just signed him outright, as the Magic demonstrated. THJ is on an expiring $16m deal. The Nuggets should have been falling all over themselves to take that back instead of *checks notes* nothing. Would be a complete game changer leading up to the deadline to have an expiring $16m to trade. |
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Post by game on Nov 11, 2024 14:34:20 GMT -5
Letting KCP walk was unequivocally a great move. You can have the most positive outlook on the young guys and the most negative outlook on KCP, and letting him walk for zero is still a terrible decision. You don't lose the salary slot, or else you find yourself in the predicament they're in, which is terrible matching salary options. |
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Post by JB on Nov 11, 2024 14:36:22 GMT -5
the one error is the Nuggets didn't trade Pope for a pick. but that necessitated taking back a Tim Hardaway Jr sized contract (which wasn't happening for reasons that are obvious) because teams with space could've just signed him outright, as the Magic demonstrated. THJ is on an expiring $16m deal. The Nuggets should have been falling all over themselves to take that back instead of *checks notes* nothing. Would be a complete game changer leading up to the deadline to have an expiring $16m to trade. I would also have taken Timmy Jr over nothing, but the reason he isn't in a Nuggets uniform right now go above the General Managers office. |
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Post by famicommander on Nov 11, 2024 14:38:33 GMT -5
Letting KCP walk was unequivocally a great move. You can have the most positive outlook on the young guys and the most negative outlook on KCP, and letting him walk for zero is still a terrible decision. You don't lose the salary slot, or else you find yourself in the predicament they're in, which is terrible matching salary options. Taking back that contract puts them over the 2nd apron and severely limits what they could do at the deadline anyway. |
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Post by GBG on Nov 11, 2024 14:42:56 GMT -5
Both KSE’s second apron constraint and the likeminded thinking of Calvin and Josh (I think they are on the same page) to open up playing time for the Young 3 went into their decisions in the offseason to not accept any new vets on the roster, or to even retain the other vet who’s gone, Holiday.
We are seeing the benefits of this approach currently. And for the long run, this may pay huge dividends. We will need one more veteran, and I agree the sooner the better in order to integrate him into our system. Of course, Holiday would be plug and play. Hope he’s still unsigned when we get around to opening up the roster spot for the vet we bring in.
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Post by game on Nov 11, 2024 14:47:55 GMT -5
THJ is on an expiring $16m deal. The Nuggets should have been falling all over themselves to take that back instead of *checks notes* nothing. Would be a complete game changer leading up to the deadline to have an expiring $16m to trade. I would also have taken Timmy Jr over nothing, but the reason he isn't in a Nuggets uniform right now go above the General Managers office. This is probably correct, but also not a defense for whether letting him walk was a net positive on balance, which is what several people are arguing. |
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Post by game on Nov 11, 2024 14:54:10 GMT -5
You can have the most positive outlook on the young guys and the most negative outlook on KCP, and letting him walk for zero is still a terrible decision. You don't lose the salary slot, or else you find yourself in the predicament they're in, which is terrible matching salary options. Taking back that contract puts them over the 2nd apron and severely limits what they could do at the deadline anyway. These apron rules exist so people will say exactly what you're saying now. "But second apron" without actually arguing what aspects of the second apron are going to be such a problem from a flexibility standpoint. An expiring $16m and no ability to aggregate seems like something I can do more with than however they're going to use Zeke's $8m mess of a contract and a bunch of $2m and $3m young guys that Booth doesn't want to move anyway. |
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Post by famicommander on Nov 11, 2024 15:01:28 GMT -5
Taking back that contract puts them over the 2nd apron and severely limits what they could do at the deadline anyway. These apron rules exist so people will say exactly what you're saying now. "But second apron" without actually arguing what aspects of the second apron are going to be such a problem. The most common one and honestly the only one I care about is trade aggregation, since they're using tax-payer MLEs on minimum talent anyway. An expiring $16m and no ability to aggregate is a far superior trade path than however you expect them to aggregate the young guys and Zeke's deal. 2nd apron also means no using cash in trades, no sign-and-trades, no midlevel exception, our 1st round pick 7 years out becomes untradeable, and salary matching has to be within 110% rather than 125%. Could we even have made the KCP sign and trade for Hardaway to begin with given that context? I don't think so. |
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Post by GBG on Nov 11, 2024 15:19:51 GMT -5
These apron rules exist so people will say exactly what you're saying now. "But second apron" without actually arguing what aspects of the second apron are going to be such a problem. The most common one and honestly the only one I care about is trade aggregation, since they're using tax-payer MLEs on minimum talent anyway. An expiring $16m and no ability to aggregate is a far superior trade path than however you expect them to aggregate the young guys and Zeke's deal. 2nd apron also means no using cash in trades, no sign-and-trades, no midlevel exception, our 1st round pick 7 years out becomes untradeable, and salary matching has to be within 110% rather than 125%. Could we even have made the KCP sign and trade for Hardaway to begin with given that context? I don't think so. The complexity of these CBA rules are being glossed over by those who just glibly suggest a sign and trade for a THJ. I don’t profess to understand them that well either. But I think there are ramifications that KSE and the Nuggets FO didn’t want to have to deal with in such a trade scenario. It’s easy for us in the peanut gallery to criticize, but I think things are working out pretty well right now, and we are still just a first apron team. And if you look back on my posts from the summer, you’ll see I was for retaining KCP. I might have been wrong. |
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Post by game on Nov 11, 2024 15:43:40 GMT -5
These apron rules exist so people will say exactly what you're saying now. "But second apron" without actually arguing what aspects of the second apron are going to be such a problem. The most common one and honestly the only one I care about is trade aggregation, since they're using tax-payer MLEs on minimum talent anyway. An expiring $16m and no ability to aggregate is a far superior trade path than however you expect them to aggregate the young guys and Zeke's deal. 2nd apron also means no using cash in trades, no sign-and-trades, no midlevel exception, our 1st round pick 7 years out becomes untradeable, and salary matching has to be within 110% rather than 125%. Could we even have made the KCP sign and trade for Hardaway to begin with given that context? I don't think so. The S&T with Dallas was reported by Marc Stein and Ramona Shelburne just recently, so I'm assuming the framework was there. I'm guessing another team would have been involved, like what happened with the Klay Thompson S&T they pivoted to. I would rather have a $16m salary or KCP and his salary to trade without aggregation than be under the apron and have that flexibility they either won't use or won't use in a way that exceeds what they could have done with my path. Calvin should have his MLE keys taken away at this point anyway. |
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Post by nuggetshipster on Nov 11, 2024 17:14:49 GMT -5
Letting KCP walk was unequivocally a great move. You can have the most positive outlook on the young guys and the most negative outlook on KCP, and letting him walk for zero is still a terrible decision. You don't lose the salary slot, or else you find yourself in the predicament they're in, which is terrible matching salary options. This |
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Post by LotharBraunBrownBryant on Nov 11, 2024 17:18:57 GMT -5
If we had Josh Green, people would be like "I can't believe we have that garbage contract on the books taking up a roster spot! We could have signed a vet like Saric with the TPMLE instead!" and Saric would be waiting for calls like Holiday.
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Post by GBG on Nov 11, 2024 17:34:50 GMT -5
If we were in second apron, do we even extend Gordon the way we did last month? I don’t think Game or other second guessers are factoring in the ramifications of keeping salaries on the books that aren’t needed. We haven’t solved the Zeke situation yet and may not. To take on THJ or Green in addition to that would possibly muck up the works.
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Post by nuggetshipster on Nov 11, 2024 18:26:28 GMT -5
If we were in second apron, do we even extend Gordon the way we did last month? I don’t think Game or other second guessers are factoring in the ramifications of keeping salaries on the books that aren’t needed. We haven’t solved the Zeke situation yet and may not. To take on THJ or Green in addition to that would possibly muck up the works. Yes |
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Post by famicommander on Nov 11, 2024 19:00:17 GMT -5
I just hope we use these days off to come up with a plan to reduce Jokic's minutes.
I think we have to at least try Saric again sometime soon. My hopes are not high for the outcome, but even if he's washed he can't possibly be as bad as he's demonstrated so far.
Ultimately I think the long term solution is the same as always: Gordon at 2C. Which means fewer minutes for him at PF. I think to compensate for that we need to play MPJ more at the 4 as well as bring Vlatko into the normal rotation when he's healthy. I also think we need to play fewer 3 guard sets, particularly if we're in a situation where Watson or Porter is playing the 4.
If our 2C isn't Saric or Gordon I don't think he's on the roster right now. Zeke and DJ are what they are at this point, Holmes ain't coming back this year, and PJ isn't close to ready.
No matter what we do we need to figure out how to shave 3-5 MPG off of Joker's workload. Soon.
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Post by rock on Nov 11, 2024 19:52:57 GMT -5
Booth has made a ton of mistakes, but the only ones that are bothering me right now are the guaranteed contracts to Pickett and Tyson as well as giving every player a player option.
If he didn’t sign Pickett and Tyson and Reggie/Saric didn’t have player options, we wouldn’t be in that horrible of a position.
Also the Zeke contract.
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