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Post by passtheballquick on Nov 11, 2024 21:29:42 GMT -5
How do we feel about trading MPJ right now? Serious question His stock is about as high as it’s been post max signing. I would trade him in a blink of an eye. He's played well the last few games but he will let us down in PO's 100%. When the real games start he'll regress big way |
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Post by rock on Nov 11, 2024 21:50:10 GMT -5
Depends on what we get back
Would I trade him straight up for bogdonovic? No
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Post by GBG on Nov 11, 2024 23:03:06 GMT -5
Booth has made a ton of mistakes, but the only ones that are bothering me right now are the guaranteed contracts to Pickett and Tyson as well as giving every player a player option. If he didn’t sign Pickett and Tyson and Reggie/Saric didn’t have player options, we wouldn’t be in that horrible of a position. Also the Zeke contract. Horrible of a position? Our roster is in a position to make noise this year. Depends on the kids in the rotation. If they continue to develop and we are rested and healthy for postseason, look out. |
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Post by freakns on Nov 12, 2024 11:33:08 GMT -5
couple of interesting things.
Nuggets are dead last in 3pt attempts. They are only 18th in points in the paint.
However, Nuggets are 4th in points per game. How?! Midrange, which would make these numbers unsustainable. I'd say no.
Nuggets are first in free throw attempts per game, which is huuuuuuuuge. This is Russell Westbrook effect.
Nuggets are also first in cutting per game. Again, Russell Westbrook plus introducing CB in starting lineup.
Nuggets are first in assists per game. They are 7th in turnovers per game.
Despite being last in 3pt attempts, Nuggets are 2nd in 3pt% and 14th in 3pt scored. And I know its small sample, and Jokic's and CB's % will go down, but in same time Jamal's and MPJ's % will go up.
All of this is product of Nuggets offense. Last season they were forcing 3pt way too much, ending with only 37% from 3 and eventually lose in playoffs due to their bad shooting. This year Nuggets are back where they were 2 years ago. They are hunting for open looks, not for 3s.
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Post by wizardofcozz on Nov 12, 2024 12:20:33 GMT -5
couple of interesting things. Nuggets are dead last in 3pt attempts. They are only 18th in points in the paint. However, Nuggets are 4th in points per game. How?! Midrange, which would make these numbers unsustainable. I'd say no. Nuggets are first in free throw attempts per game, which is huuuuuuuuge. This is Russell Westbrook effect. Nuggets are also first in cutting per game. Again, Russell Westbrook plus introducing CB in starting lineup. Nuggets are first in assists per game. They are 7th in turnovers per game. Despite being last in 3pt attempts, Nuggets are 2nd in 3pt% and 14th in 3pt scored. And I know its small sample, and Jokic's and CB's % will go down, but in same time Jamal's and MPJ's % will go up. All of this is product of Nuggets offense. Last season they were forcing 3pt way too much, ending with only 37% from 3 and eventually lose in playoffs due to their bad shooting. This year Nuggets are back where they were 2 years ago. They are hunting for open looks, not for 3s. Agree with most of this. I still think Nuggets need to get to 36+ 3PTA per game. Take game vs. the Mavericks. I loved the shot profile of everyone, EXCEPT Murray. Murray took 17 shots, of which only 6 were 3's. Only 4 of his shots were in the paint. Which means he took 7 mid-range shots. IF he just converts 2-3 of these to 3's, that would help us immensely, though Murray doesn't seem like a person who will change, so it probably is what it is. |
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Post by game on Nov 12, 2024 12:44:55 GMT -5
If we were in second apron, do we even extend Gordon the way we did last month? I don’t think Game or other second guessers are factoring in the ramifications of keeping salaries on the books that aren’t needed. We haven’t solved the Zeke situation yet and may not. To take on THJ or Green in addition to that would possibly muck up the works. I believe you are going to great efforts to act like perfectly reasonable skepticism and frustration for a lack of urgency from this organization with a top tenish all-time player is overreaction. I think folks who follow the NBA closely but are not Nuggets fanatics would share our viewpoint, not yours. But obviously as fans, we tend to let reality twist into what we want it to be and we apparently we b***h incessantly at anybody who strays from that (whether they're on the board at that time or not). But that's the landscape everywhere these days. Put on your blue and gold and red hat and twist reality to always align with what you want reality to be. Your right as a fan. Sports are not that serious. There's no reason whatsoever that Aaron Gordon wouldn't be extended if KCP was back. Well. Except for the one that we have to pretend isn't egregious behavior in Nikola Jokic's prime and is just agreed upon table stakes. |
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Post by game on Nov 12, 2024 12:53:57 GMT -5
I'll say this one more time then allow you all to do your thing. Two primary points of failure that were completely avoidable just from a roster construction standpoint. This doesn't include being cheap in a title window (unforgivable and people acted like this would change when they were good - lol) and burning assets like they're AOL CD-ROMs, which are egregious and obviously are both ownership and front office issues.
1) Shooting - it's not good enough in May when teams actually gameplan. The shooting the last week or so has been awesome. It's an outlier even for the regular season, and the sport completely changes in the playoffs, but genuinely the right thing to see Braun and Watson in particular let it fly with confidence. They need to keep that same approach when they're 0-3 from 3 moving forward. Jokic also needs to really prioritize his 3, which he has done to date. His % is also going to regress to the mean, but a meaningful jump from the last few years would be massive. They didn't have enough shooting last year and they got worse this year.
2) 16 game players - giving guys who have done it before for the Nuggets the benefit of the doubt, and giving y'all Christian Braun:
Jokic
Murray
Porter
Gordon
Braun
?
So you're banking on not just one young guy getting there, let's say Peyton Watson, who is the logical choice who I believe can get there. You're banking on Strawther too, who feels kind of far away from that for me (hope I'm wrong), Westbrook who will be a disaster in the playoffs, and... Hunter Tyson? Zeke? Saric?
I see 5-6 guys. They skewed way too far toward young guys and non-shooters. Oh, and bad players. Way too far. And it's not difficult to detect that. That's why people are pissed off.
Awesome five game winning streak. I hope they make it 15. And I hope the young guys ball out and Booth looks like a genius. I'm advocating for what I think is being done incorrectly and should be done better from a novice perspective because that's why this board exists. It shouldn't bother you this much that people are saying the same thing that basically all of the national voices are saying.
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Post by Ring on Nov 12, 2024 13:02:10 GMT -5
The biggest change in the Nuggets approach has just been how many different guys they have now that can attack the basket. Russ, CB, Watson, Jokic obviously. There's way more pressure on the rim and therefore more FTs. More FTA = more points.
The 2nd apron stuff is a bit much right now. KCP wasn't worth $20M. I understand wanting THJ expiring contract but that would take the Nuggets out of the buyout market I believe? The problem with the 2nd apron talk is you have to show me a guy that we could add to this team right now that would make them better without taking minutes away from Braun/Watson/Strawther. So your only option for that was a S&T with KCP for a backup big OR just using the tax payer MLE on a better backup C than Dario Saric. Unfortunately, nobody else was available.
If Holmes didn't get hurt he probably would have been a great fit. Athletic, can shoot, can run, etc. Saric never fit on paper and doesn't fit on the court either obviously.
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Post by JB on Nov 12, 2024 13:05:56 GMT -5
Saric has shot 3PA. not per game, he has attempted three 3s in 5 games.
how about stop playing him like he's Plumlee and have him posted at the 3 point line waiting for Russ to drive and kick.
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Post by Ring on Nov 12, 2024 13:09:10 GMT -5
I'll say this one more time then allow you all to do your thing. Two primary points of failure that were completely avoidable just from a roster construction standpoint. This doesn't include being cheap in a title window (unforgivable and people acted like this would change when they were good - lol) and burning assets like they're AOL CD-ROMs, which are egregious and obviously are both ownership and front office issues. 1) Shooting - it's not good enough in May when teams actually gameplan. The shooting the last week or so has been awesome. It's an outlier even for the regular season, and the sport completely changes in the playoffs, but genuinely the right thing to see Braun and Watson in particular let it fly with confidence. They need to keep that same approach when they're 0-3 from 3 moving forward. Jokic also needs to really prioritize his 3, which he has done to date. His % is also going to regress to the mean, but a meaningful jump from the last few years would be massive. They didn't have enough shooting last year and they got worse this year. 2) 16 game players - giving guys who have done it before for the Nuggets the benefit of the doubt, and giving y'all Christian Braun: Jokic Murray Porter Gordon Braun ? So you're banking on not just one young guy getting there, let's say Peyton Watson, who is the logical choice who I believe can get there. You're banking on Strawther too, who feels kind of far away from that for me (hope I'm wrong), Westbrook who will be a disaster in the playoffs, and... Hunter Tyson? Zeke? Saric? I see 5-6 guys. They skewed way too far toward young guys and non-shooters. Oh, and bad players. Way too far. And it's not difficult to detect that. That's why people are pissed off. Awesome five game winning streak. I hope they make it 15. And I hope the young guys ball out and Booth looks like a genius. I'm advocating for what I think is being done incorrectly and should be done better from a novice perspective because that's why this board exists. It shouldn't bother you this much that people are saying the same thing that basically all of the national voices are saying. Russ had a really good postseason for his standards 2 years ago against Phoenix. Disaster last year. I do think he's a 16 game guy though. He's a good passer, brings a ton of energy and is a very good defender/rebounder at the guard position. Is he perfect? No. But he'll be playing a good chunk of minutes with Jokic who he has phenomenal chemistry with so far. Westbrook gives you 6 guys. Watson hopefully turns out to be the 7th. He's developing at a very fast rate and his defense alone should allow him to be a guy you can play i the playoffs. I do worry about him not being as effective off the bench of course but his role come playoff time should be to guard the opposing teams best players. He's done a pretty damn good job on SGA, Luke, Kyrie, etc. Need him to keep bulking up too. So then where does that 8th guy come from? I have no idea. You hopefully find someone in the buyout market. You can win with 7.5 which is basically what the Nuggets did in 2023. Maybe you find a team dumb enough to trade for Zeke? I mean the Nuggets team last year looked like s**t all playoffs long and still almost made the Conference Finals. Murray was historically bad. MPJ was pretty bad. KCP was awful. When you have Jokic you just need like 3 other guys to play well and you'll never lose. |
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Post by nuggetshipster on Nov 12, 2024 13:20:19 GMT -5
The biggest change in the Nuggets approach has just been how many different guys they have now that can attack the basket. Russ, CB, Watson, Jokic obviously. There's way more pressure on the rim and therefore more FTs. More FTA = more points. The 2nd apron stuff is a bit much right now. KCP wasn't worth $20M. I understand wanting THJ expiring contract but that would take the Nuggets out of the buyout market I believe? The problem with the 2nd apron talk is you have to show me a guy that we could add to this team right now that would make them better without taking minutes away from Braun/Watson/Strawther. So your only option for that was a S&T with KCP for a backup big OR just using the tax payer MLE on a better backup C than Dario Saric. Unfortunately, nobody else was available. If Holmes didn't get hurt he probably would have been a great fit. Athletic, can shoot, can run, etc. Saric never fit on paper and doesn't fit on the court either obviously. But seriously, its not about taking minutes from Braun/Watson/Strawther. Its about having options and depth. To not have to play Jokic and Murray 40mpg in november. Its about paying the price to increase your chance of winning. When you have the 2nd GOAT on your team in his prime. |
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Post by rock on Nov 12, 2024 13:42:42 GMT -5
The biggest change in the Nuggets approach has just been how many different guys they have now that can attack the basket. Russ, CB, Watson, Jokic obviously. There's way more pressure on the rim and therefore more FTs. More FTA = more points. The 2nd apron stuff is a bit much right now. KCP wasn't worth $20M. I understand wanting THJ expiring contract but that would take the Nuggets out of the buyout market I believe? The problem with the 2nd apron talk is you have to show me a guy that we could add to this team right now that would make them better without taking minutes away from Braun/Watson/Strawther. So your only option for that was a S&T with KCP for a backup big OR just using the tax payer MLE on a better backup C than Dario Saric. Unfortunately, nobody else was available. If Holmes didn't get hurt he probably would have been a great fit. Athletic, can shoot, can run, etc. Saric never fit on paper and doesn't fit on the court either obviously. damn forgot about holmes. he would be awesome to have right about now |
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Post by Ring on Nov 12, 2024 14:21:36 GMT -5
The biggest change in the Nuggets approach has just been how many different guys they have now that can attack the basket. Russ, CB, Watson, Jokic obviously. There's way more pressure on the rim and therefore more FTs. More FTA = more points. The 2nd apron stuff is a bit much right now. KCP wasn't worth $20M. I understand wanting THJ expiring contract but that would take the Nuggets out of the buyout market I believe? The problem with the 2nd apron talk is you have to show me a guy that we could add to this team right now that would make them better without taking minutes away from Braun/Watson/Strawther. So your only option for that was a S&T with KCP for a backup big OR just using the tax payer MLE on a better backup C than Dario Saric. Unfortunately, nobody else was available. If Holmes didn't get hurt he probably would have been a great fit. Athletic, can shoot, can run, etc. Saric never fit on paper and doesn't fit on the court either obviously. But seriously, its not about taking minutes from Braun/Watson/Strawther. Its about having options and depth. To not have to play Jokic and Murray 40mpg in november. Its about paying the price to increase your chance of winning. When you have the 2nd GOAT on your team in his prime. What is the option though? The Nuggets need a capable backup C that makes the MLE or less. Where are you getting that guy? The reason why Murray/Jokic have to play 40MPG is simply because Murray isn't a good enough player to carry a bench unit against an opposing teams bench. Look at what the Mavs do. Kyrie or Luka play with the bench and they don't lose much because those guys are capable of single handedly keeping a bad unit afloat. |
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Post by freakns on Nov 12, 2024 14:21:51 GMT -5
The biggest change in the Nuggets approach has just been how many different guys they have now that can attack the basket. Russ, CB, Watson, Jokic obviously. There's way more pressure on the rim and therefore more FTs. More FTA = more points. The 2nd apron stuff is a bit much right now. KCP wasn't worth $20M. I understand wanting THJ expiring contract but that would take the Nuggets out of the buyout market I believe? The problem with the 2nd apron talk is you have to show me a guy that we could add to this team right now that would make them better without taking minutes away from Braun/Watson/Strawther. So your only option for that was a S&T with KCP for a backup big OR just using the tax payer MLE on a better backup C than Dario Saric. Unfortunately, nobody else was available. If Holmes didn't get hurt he probably would have been a great fit. Athletic, can shoot, can run, etc. Saric never fit on paper and doesn't fit on the court either obviously. damn forgot about holmes. he would be awesome to have right about now I already wrote, Strawther, Holmes, PWat, thats 3 guys with combined 2000 minuted in NBA. thats pretty much three guys with less then a season in NBA. no matter how talented they are, its too much. Watson had little over 1500 minutes in NBA at start of the season, Strawther less then 500. god knows how much of those are meaningful. and thats the biggest issue Nuggets have. its not about talent, or can those guys be good. if either PWat or Strawther or both hit rookie wall, we are fvckd. and I do expect something like that to happen. not because I dont trust those guys, but because thats nature of the NBA... now, I do hope PWat can get out of it, cause he did spend last season with the Nuggets, he has full season in GLeague behind, so he already got his feet wet, plus his main strength is defense, which should be something you shouldn't overcome as offensive issues. but Strawther, there is a point in this season when he will go totally blank. |
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Post by wizardofcozz on Nov 12, 2024 14:46:02 GMT -5
Saric has shot 3PA. not per game, he has attempted three 3s in 5 games. how about stop playing him like he's Plumlee and have him posted at the 3 point line waiting for Russ to drive and kick. This! |
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Post by wizardofcozz on Nov 12, 2024 14:47:30 GMT -5
I'll say this one more time then allow you all to do your thing. Two primary points of failure that were completely avoidable just from a roster construction standpoint. This doesn't include being cheap in a title window (unforgivable and people acted like this would change when they were good - lol) and burning assets like they're AOL CD-ROMs, which are egregious and obviously are both ownership and front office issues. 1) Shooting - it's not good enough in May when teams actually gameplan. The shooting the last week or so has been awesome. It's an outlier even for the regular season, and the sport completely changes in the playoffs, but genuinely the right thing to see Braun and Watson in particular let it fly with confidence. They need to keep that same approach when they're 0-3 from 3 moving forward. Jokic also needs to really prioritize his 3, which he has done to date. His % is also going to regress to the mean, but a meaningful jump from the last few years would be massive. They didn't have enough shooting last year and they got worse this year. 2) 16 game players - giving guys who have done it before for the Nuggets the benefit of the doubt, and giving y'all Christian Braun: Jokic Murray Porter Gordon Braun ? So you're banking on not just one young guy getting there, let's say Peyton Watson, who is the logical choice who I believe can get there. You're banking on Strawther too, who feels kind of far away from that for me (hope I'm wrong), Westbrook who will be a disaster in the playoffs, and... Hunter Tyson? Zeke? Saric? I see 5-6 guys. They skewed way too far toward young guys and non-shooters. Oh, and bad players. Way too far. And it's not difficult to detect that. That's why people are pissed off. Awesome five game winning streak. I hope they make it 15. And I hope the young guys ball out and Booth looks like a genius. I'm advocating for what I think is being done incorrectly and should be done better from a novice perspective because that's why this board exists. It shouldn't bother you this much that people are saying the same thing that basically all of the national voices are saying. Russ had a really good postseason for his standards 2 years ago against Phoenix. Disaster last year. I do think he's a 16 game guy though. He's a good passer, brings a ton of energy and is a very good defender/rebounder at the guard position. Is he perfect? No. But he'll be playing a good chunk of minutes with Jokic who he has phenomenal chemistry with so far. Westbrook gives you 6 guys. Watson hopefully turns out to be the 7th. He's developing at a very fast rate and his defense alone should allow him to be a guy you can play i the playoffs. I do worry about him not being as effective off the bench of course but his role come playoff time should be to guard the opposing teams best players. He's done a pretty damn good job on SGA, Luke, Kyrie, etc. Need him to keep bulking up too. So then where does that 8th guy come from? I have no idea. You hopefully find someone in the buyout market. You can win with 7.5 which is basically what the Nuggets did in 2023. Maybe you find a team dumb enough to trade for Zeke? I mean the Nuggets team last year looked like s**t all playoffs long and still almost made the Conference Finals. Murray was historically bad. MPJ was pretty bad. KCP was awful. When you have Jokic you just need like 3 other guys to play well and you'll never lose. I think Strawther with a full season under his belt can be that 8th guy. |
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Post by GBG on Nov 12, 2024 15:10:32 GMT -5
If we were in second apron, do we even extend Gordon the way we did last month? I don’t think Game or other second guessers are factoring in the ramifications of keeping salaries on the books that aren’t needed. We haven’t solved the Zeke situation yet and may not. To take on THJ or Green in addition to that would possibly muck up the works. I believe you are going to great efforts to act like perfectly reasonable skepticism and frustration for a lack of urgency from this organization with a top tenish all-time player is overreaction. I think folks who follow the NBA closely but are not Nuggets fanatics would share our viewpoint, not yours. But obviously as fans, we tend to let reality twist into what we want it to be and we apparently we b***h incessantly at anybody who strays from that (whether they're on the board at that time or not). But that's the landscape everywhere these days. Put on your blue and gold and red hat and twist reality to always align with what you want reality to be. Your right as a fan. Sports are not that serious. There's no reason whatsoever that Aaron Gordon wouldn't be extended if KCP was back. Well. Except for the one that we have to pretend isn't egregious behavior in Nikola Jokic's prime and is just agreed upon table stakes. Of course, you have the right to your opinion. But it’s not a feather in your cap to say it comports with national media takes. National media is lazy and casual in their Nuggets knowledge, such as Ramona Shelbourne writing that the Nuggets “underachieved” in the playoffs in 2021 and 2022, ie between bubble and championship run. Did she expect a deep run without Murray in 2021? Or without Murray and MPJ in 2022? Maybe she did. Maybe she thought Facu and Austin Rivers should get us to WCF because of MVP Jokic! In any event, I saw many mistakes in her article, factual and otherwise. Other national media doesn’t really look deeply at the team, are biased toward coastal and big market teams, and it’s a false narrative that they keep pushing about Booth letting 3 guys go the past two summers in Brown, Green, and KCP. As if we had a choice in the matter with Brown, and as if Green was a difference maker we couldn’t do without. Just causal fan coastal media takes. Your argument against Booth is not good if you have to lean on national media to support your case, IMHO. And I’m entitled to my opinion too. |
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Post by nuggetshipster on Nov 12, 2024 16:00:19 GMT -5
But seriously, its not about taking minutes from Braun/Watson/Strawther. Its about having options and depth. To not have to play Jokic and Murray 40mpg in november. Its about paying the price to increase your chance of winning. When you have the 2nd GOAT on your team in his prime. What is the option though? The Nuggets need a capable backup C that makes the MLE or less. Where are you getting that guy? The reason why Murray/Jokic have to play 40MPG is simply because Murray isn't a good enough player to carry a bench unit against an opposing teams bench. Look at what the Mavs do. Kyrie or Luka play with the bench and they don't lose much because those guys are capable of single handedly keeping a bad unit afloat. Plumlee tok the minimum to be a backup in Phoenix and not win a ring. Pretty sure he would have taken the minimum to be a backup in Denver and win a ring KCP/THJ + Plumlee >>> Saric What even is this discussion. |
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Post by nuggetshipster on Nov 12, 2024 16:05:38 GMT -5
FA‘s would love to sign in Denver for the min. Doesnt have to be Plumlee. Its like Nuggets GM fans of all people dont realize how great Jokic is.
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Post by Ring on Nov 12, 2024 16:10:58 GMT -5
What is the option though? The Nuggets need a capable backup C that makes the MLE or less. Where are you getting that guy? The reason why Murray/Jokic have to play 40MPG is simply because Murray isn't a good enough player to carry a bench unit against an opposing teams bench. Look at what the Mavs do. Kyrie or Luka play with the bench and they don't lose much because those guys are capable of single handedly keeping a bad unit afloat. Plumlee tok the minimum to be a backup in Phoenix and not win a ring. Pretty sure he would have taken the minimum to be a backup in Denver and win a ring KCP/THJ + Plumlee >>> Saric What even is this discussion. I didn't know Plumlee signed for the minimum. He would have been a perfect fit tbh and has played with Westbrook too. We should probably start looking around at really bad teams and check buyout candidates at the C position. Calvin swung and missed on Saric. No other way around it. |
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