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Post by inyourmind on Jul 15, 2024 1:34:46 GMT -5
We at a point where people cope so hard they WANT us to not have dept and only 9 NBA players. Wow Yeah because it's not like we haven't seen a team win an NBA championship with a 8 man rotation? haha like you do realize Cancar averaged 15 MPG during the championship season in the regular season? DJ 15? Zeke 14? Zeke played more in the regular season when we won a championship than he did this season. I'm not coping at all. Nuggets took a crazy risk with a player like Jokic. They'll either look incredibly smart or like absolute lunatics after this season. They are basically betting on CB being = or better to KCP and Strawther/Watson significantly improving. Upgrade everybody after the 9th man with much better options and it won't matter because those players won't ever be able to fill the starting 2 spot/6th-8th man anyways. Trading MPJ for better depth(real depth not the 11th roster spot), or keeping KCP is the real debate. CB improving and staying on the bench and betting on 1 of Strawther/Watson to take a step is just a far safer bet than what we did.
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Post by famicommander on Jul 15, 2024 1:53:28 GMT -5
We at a point where people cope so hard they WANT us to not have dept and only 9 NBA players. Wow Yeah because it's not like we haven't seen a team win an NBA championship with a 8 man rotation? haha like you do realize Cancar averaged 15 MPG during the championship season in the regular season? DJ 15? Zeke 14? Zeke played more in the regular season when we won a championship than he did this season. I'm not coping at all. Nuggets took a crazy risk with a player like Jokic. They'll either look incredibly smart or like absolute lunatics after this season. They are basically betting on CB being = or better to KCP and Strawther/Watson significantly improving. Upgrade everybody after the 9th man with much better options and it won't matter because those players won't ever be able to fill the starting 2 spot/6th-8th man anyways. Trading MPJ for better depth(real depth not the 11th roster spot), or keeping KCP is the real debate. CB improving and staying on the bench and betting on 1 of Strawther/Watson to take a step is just a far safer bet than what we did. Yes, Cancar averaged 15 MPG on the championship team and then didn't play in the playoffs. This year Cancar is solidly in the rotation and instead of having Cancar at the end of the bench it's Hunter Tyson. Do you not understand how that is a problem? Can you imagine how screwed we are if Hunter Tyson has to play 15 MPG this season? Do you not understand that they're not even saving cap space by sticking with Zeke, Tyson, and Pickett? If we spend the picks to get rid of them and then replace them with, hypothetically on vet minimums, Troy Brown, Justin Holiday, and Seth Curry (assuming we get Russ in either event) it would literally cost us less against the cap. Do you not acknowledge how drastic of an upgrade it would be? Imagine last season with Seth Curry instead of Jalen Pickett as our 3rd PG. Then we could've played Gillespie like a normal two-way instead of suiting him up almost twice as much as our actual 3rd PG. We could've rested Reggie a week or two down the stretch of the regular season instead of squeezing 82 games out of the senior citizen. And what's the actual cost at this point? Another late 1st round pick and some Kroenke bucks? We don't need to be taking more shots on developmental projects. Braun, Strawther and Watson aren't even finished products yet, for crying out loud. We can't wait around for 4 more years while next year's #26 overall pick or whatever it ends up being develops into a rotation guy. Jokic is turning 30 and we've gotten 1 championship out of his ridiculous peak so far. That's an abject failure on the part of the franchise.
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Post by duh88 on Jul 15, 2024 1:54:16 GMT -5
Love that game criticized fami for using too much hyperbole in his vocabulary, and first thing fami says is: YOU'RE DELUSIONAL!
lol
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Post by inyourmind on Jul 15, 2024 2:08:07 GMT -5
Yeah because it's not like we haven't seen a team win an NBA championship with a 8 man rotation? haha like you do realize Cancar averaged 15 MPG during the championship season in the regular season? DJ 15? Zeke 14? Zeke played more in the regular season when we won a championship than he did this season. I'm not coping at all. Nuggets took a crazy risk with a player like Jokic. They'll either look incredibly smart or like absolute lunatics after this season. They are basically betting on CB being = or better to KCP and Strawther/Watson significantly improving. Upgrade everybody after the 9th man with much better options and it won't matter because those players won't ever be able to fill the starting 2 spot/6th-8th man anyways. Trading MPJ for better depth(real depth not the 11th roster spot), or keeping KCP is the real debate. CB improving and staying on the bench and betting on 1 of Strawther/Watson to take a step is just a far safer bet than what we did. Yes, Cancar averaged 15 MPG on the championship team and then didn't play in the playoffs. Because only 8 players played in the playoff rotation? Which is my entire point? I'm not arguing that the Nuggets aren't taking a risk. That they didn't make a potentially massive mistake. I'm arguing that I don't care who plays 9-11 MPG in the regular season. That how Jokic plays or how Murray plays determines who wins the random regular season matchup in November. That the starters are more to blame for losing the 1 seed for collapsing vs S.A than Pickett's 200 or whatever minutes he played last year. That the 10th+ man can't replace a starting 2 guard or the 7th/8th man which is where the spotlight should be because that's where the Nuggets gambled this year. The failure/success will be the Nuggets betting on CB/Watson/Strawther to play major roles not improving Zeke/Pickett's roster spots. You wanna argue that the Nuggets should have kept KCP? Fair. You wanna argue that they should have traded MPJ? Fair. Whining about Zeke or Pickett? Far bigger fish to fry at this point in the game. Nuggets have 1 championship with Jokic because of Murray honestly. He missed 2 playoffs. You can't win rings without your 2nd best player. You can call it a failure. I don't really care to debate that truthfully. I think the argument will exist if Murray doesn't pop off next year in the playoffs. At that point your talking about 1 All-Time run vs 4 where he came up short. MPJ contract is certainly fair. He's overpaid and missed time. Those are the reasons we don't have more rings not because the Nuggets won't upgrade Zeke/Pickett.
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Post by GBG on Jul 15, 2024 2:19:09 GMT -5
Deep depth is important for most teams. Our team is extremely top-heavy and needs to stay healthy among the highest paid four players, or our playoff chances are nil in terms of a championship run. For us, then, deep depth is the least of our concerns. Sure, I’d like to replace Pickett and Tyson with Holiday and Troy Brown. Yes, I’d like to trade trade Zeke for a useful vet. But if any of these three “scrubs” or their replacements have to play meaningful minutes in postseason, we are screwed anyway. So, in our special case, upgrading deep bench is a distinction without a difference in what our final results will be. It’s really what one can say is “on the margin” for the Nuggets, and not determinative. It’s just more annoying than anything else that Booth hasn’t upgraded our deep bench, but not really that important except as a way to calm Fami down.
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Post by famicommander on Jul 15, 2024 2:20:52 GMT -5
Yes, Cancar averaged 15 MPG on the championship team and then didn't play in the playoffs. Because only 8 players played in the playoff rotation? Which is my entire point? I'm not arguing that the Nuggets aren't taking a risk. That they didn't make a potentially massive mistake. I'm arguing that I don't care who plays 9-11 MPG in the regular season. That how Jokic plays or how Murray plays determines who wins the random regular season matchup in November. That the starters are more to blame for losing the 1 seed for collapsing vs S.A than Pickett's 200 or whatever minutes he played last year. That the 10th+ man can't replace a starting 2 guard or the 7th/8th man which is where the spotlight should be because that's where the Nuggets gambled this year. The failure/success will be the Nuggets betting on CB/Watson/Strawther to play major roles not improving Zeke/Pickett's roster spots. You wanna argue that the Nuggets should have kept KCP? Fair. You wanna argue that they should have traded MPJ? Fair. Whining about Zeke or Pickett? Far bigger fish to fry at this point in the game. Nuggets have 1 championship with Jokic because of Murray honestly. He missed 2 playoffs. You can't win rings without your 2nd best player. You can call it a failure. I don't really care to debate that truthfully. I think the argument will exist if Murray doesn't pop off next year in the playoffs. At that point your talking about 1 All-Time run vs 4 where he came up short. MPJ contract is certainly fair. He's overpaid and missed time. Those are the reasons we don't have more rings not because the Nuggets won't upgrade Zeke/Pickett. Replace these guys from the championship roster with these guys (the last 5 guys on the bench of the main 15 in either case): '23 Zeke = '25 Zeke Vlatko = Tyson Ish = Pickett Bones/Reggie = 36 year old DeAndre Jordan Reed/Bryant = blank roster spot (injured Holmes) No god damn way that squad still gets the 1 seed.
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Post by GBG on Jul 15, 2024 2:26:05 GMT -5
Because only 8 players played in the playoff rotation? Which is my entire point? I'm not arguing that the Nuggets aren't taking a risk. That they didn't make a potentially massive mistake. I'm arguing that I don't care who plays 9-11 MPG in the regular season. That how Jokic plays or how Murray plays determines who wins the random regular season matchup in November. That the starters are more to blame for losing the 1 seed for collapsing vs S.A than Pickett's 200 or whatever minutes he played last year. That the 10th+ man can't replace a starting 2 guard or the 7th/8th man which is where the spotlight should be because that's where the Nuggets gambled this year. The failure/success will be the Nuggets betting on CB/Watson/Strawther to play major roles not improving Zeke/Pickett's roster spots. You wanna argue that the Nuggets should have kept KCP? Fair. You wanna argue that they should have traded MPJ? Fair. Whining about Zeke or Pickett? Far bigger fish to fry at this point in the game. Nuggets have 1 championship with Jokic because of Murray honestly. He missed 2 playoffs. You can't win rings without your 2nd best player. You can call it a failure. I don't really care to debate that truthfully. I think the argument will exist if Murray doesn't pop off next year in the playoffs. At that point your talking about 1 All-Time run vs 4 where he came up short. MPJ contract is certainly fair. He's overpaid and missed time. Those are the reasons we don't have more rings not because the Nuggets won't upgrade Zeke/Pickett. Replace these guys from the championship roster with these guys: '23 Zeke = '25 Zeke Vlatko = Tyson Ish = Pickett Bones/Reggie = 36 year old DeAndre Jordan Reed/Bryant = blank roster spot (injured Holmes) No god damn way that squad still gets the 1 seed. I wrote to everyone here that if we lose KCP, we drop to a 4/5 seed. It happened, and I stick with that prognostication. West is tough. Upgrading deep bench isn’t gonna offset loss of KCP. Westbrook won’t do it either. We will still be really good, as in 49-51 win good. But we aren’t a top-3 seed anyway, even if you swap out Pickett/Tyson for Holiday and Troy Brown.
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Post by nuggetshipster on Jul 15, 2024 2:31:19 GMT -5
We at a point where people cope so hard they WANT us to not have dept and only 9 NBA players. Wow Yeah because it's not like we haven't seen a team win an NBA championship with a 8 man rotation? haha like you do realize Cancar averaged 15 MPG during the championship season in the regular season? DJ 15? Zeke 14? Zeke played more in the regular season when we won a championship than he did this season. Bro Im not saying it cant be done, Im saying why are you advocating for it or defending it. Even if you can win with 8 NBA players, having 10 is much better. Huge stretch pretending i say its impossible. Im saying why tf do you guys prefer it?
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Post by famicommander on Jul 15, 2024 2:33:01 GMT -5
Replace these guys from the championship roster with these guys: '23 Zeke = '25 Zeke Vlatko = Tyson Ish = Pickett Bones/Reggie = 36 year old DeAndre Jordan Reed/Bryant = blank roster spot (injured Holmes) No god damn way that squad still gets the 1 seed. I wrote to everyone here that if we lose KCP, we drop to a 4/5 seed. It happened, and I stick with that prognostication. West is tough. Upgrading deep bench isn’t gonna offset loss of KCP. Westbrook won’t do it either. We will still be really good, as in 49-51 win good. But we aren’t a top-3 seed anyway, even if you swap out Pickett/Tyson for Holiday and Troy Brown. Murray/Westbrook/Curry Braun/Strawther/Holiday MPJ/Watson/Brown Gordon/Cancar/[Holmes] Jokic/Saric/Gordon I'd take that all day to get a top 3 seed. Murray/Westbrook/Pickett Braun/Strawther MPJ/Watson/Tyson Gordon/Cancar/Nnaji/[Holmes] Jokic/Saric/Jordan This squad is dramatically worse and absolutely paper thin.
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Post by nuggetshipster on Jul 15, 2024 2:33:30 GMT -5
Love that game criticized fami for using too much hyperbole in his vocabulary, and first thing fami says is: YOU'RE DELUSIONAL! lol Let people speak how they speak and try to understand what they are trying say. But instead many people prefer to make fun or illegitimize their opinion based on semantics
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Post by inyourmind on Jul 15, 2024 2:36:52 GMT -5
Replace these guys from the championship roster with these guys: '23 Zeke = '25 Zeke Vlatko = Tyson Ish = Pickett Bones/Reggie = 36 year old DeAndre Jordan Reed/Bryant = blank roster spot (injured Holmes) No god damn way that squad still gets the 1 seed. I wrote to everyone here that if we lose KCP, we drop to a 4/5 seed. It happened, and I stick with that prognostication. West is tough. Upgrading deep bench isn’t gonna offset loss of KCP. Westbrook won’t do it either. We will still be really good, as in 49-51 win good. But we aren’t a top-3 seed anyway, even if you swap out Pickett/Tyson for Holiday and Troy Brown. Yup. CB replacing KCP or even being an improvement, and than Strawther/Watson being the wildcards and making for very good bench pieces are what the Nuggets are relying on. A Longshot add like Westbrook also a possibility if they can really pop off here. Swapping Tyson for Holliday just makes the regular season less ugly to watch. Nuggets still won't win a ring if CB/Strawther can't replace KCP. Give us an elite deep bench and it won't mean s**t come playoff time if Murray's banged up or we have a hole at SG. A great 11th man won't mean s**t if Strawther/Watson aren't playable. You'll need bigger moves to fix those issues.
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Post by nuggetshipster on Jul 15, 2024 2:36:58 GMT -5
Yes, Cancar averaged 15 MPG on the championship team and then didn't play in the playoffs. Because only 8 players played in the playoff rotation? Which is my entire point? I'm not arguing that the Nuggets aren't taking a risk. That they didn't make a potentially massive mistake. I'm arguing that I don't care who plays 9-11 MPG in the regular season. That how Jokic plays or how Murray plays determines who wins the random regular season matchup in November. That the starters are more to blame for losing the 1 seed for collapsing vs S.A than Pickett's 200 or whatever minutes he played last year. That the 10th+ man can't replace a starting 2 guard or the 7th/8th man which is where the spotlight should be because that's where the Nuggets gambled this year. The failure/success will be the Nuggets betting on CB/Watson/Strawther to play major roles not improving Zeke/Pickett's roster spots. You wanna argue that the Nuggets should have kept KCP? Fair. You wanna argue that they should have traded MPJ? Fair. Whining about Zeke or Pickett? Far bigger fish to fry at this point in the game. Nuggets have 1 championship with Jokic because of Murray honestly. He missed 2 playoffs. You can't win rings without your 2nd best player. You can call it a failure. I don't really care to debate that truthfully. I think the argument will exist if Murray doesn't pop off next year in the playoffs. At that point your talking about 1 All-Time run vs 4 where he came up short. MPJ contract is certainly fair. He's overpaid and missed time. Those are the reasons we don't have more rings not because the Nuggets won't upgrade Zeke/Pickett. Bro you definitely should care who plays 9-11 minutes in the regular season. Having a talented and winning culture is one thing. Injury insurance and load management another thing. Vibes as well. Tradeable assets of course is huge. Potential for growth within also huge. You should reconsider this take. And aint no one saying we cant win with trash on the bench. But its better not to
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Post by inyourmind on Jul 15, 2024 2:44:19 GMT -5
Yeah because it's not like we haven't seen a team win an NBA championship with a 8 man rotation? haha like you do realize Cancar averaged 15 MPG during the championship season in the regular season? DJ 15? Zeke 14? Zeke played more in the regular season when we won a championship than he did this season. Bro Im not saying it cant be done, Im saying why are you advocating for it or defending it. Even if you can win with 8 NBA players, having 10 is much better. Huge stretch pretending i say its impossible. Im saying why tf do you guys prefer it? It's not realistic with our cap situation to have a team that's 14 deep. Ultimately you only need a 8-9 man rotation when you have a talent like Jokic. Were just relient on staying healthy(most teams are in the playoffs). I want the Nuggets to focus on the best 8 man rotation. Not building the deepest roster possible. What is a fair criticism and something I completely understand being unhappy with is letting KCP walk and rolling the dice on 3 young players to all improve and play above what they've shown when you have a talent like Jokic. Pickett/Tyson or whoever plays 11 MPG in 46 games during the regular season just doesn't move the needle for me.
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Post by inyourmind on Jul 15, 2024 2:49:41 GMT -5
Because only 8 players played in the playoff rotation? Which is my entire point? I'm not arguing that the Nuggets aren't taking a risk. That they didn't make a potentially massive mistake. I'm arguing that I don't care who plays 9-11 MPG in the regular season. That how Jokic plays or how Murray plays determines who wins the random regular season matchup in November. That the starters are more to blame for losing the 1 seed for collapsing vs S.A than Pickett's 200 or whatever minutes he played last year. That the 10th+ man can't replace a starting 2 guard or the 7th/8th man which is where the spotlight should be because that's where the Nuggets gambled this year. The failure/success will be the Nuggets betting on CB/Watson/Strawther to play major roles not improving Zeke/Pickett's roster spots. You wanna argue that the Nuggets should have kept KCP? Fair. You wanna argue that they should have traded MPJ? Fair. Whining about Zeke or Pickett? Far bigger fish to fry at this point in the game. Nuggets have 1 championship with Jokic because of Murray honestly. He missed 2 playoffs. You can't win rings without your 2nd best player. You can call it a failure. I don't really care to debate that truthfully. I think the argument will exist if Murray doesn't pop off next year in the playoffs. At that point your talking about 1 All-Time run vs 4 where he came up short. MPJ contract is certainly fair. He's overpaid and missed time. Those are the reasons we don't have more rings not because the Nuggets won't upgrade Zeke/Pickett. Bro you definitely should care who plays 9-11 minutes in the regular season. Having a talented and winning culture is one thing. Injury insurance and load management another thing. Vibes as well. Tradeable assets of course is huge. Potential for growth within also huge. You should reconsider this take. And aint no one saying we cant win with trash on the bench. But its better not to Enough teams have won rings with trash playing those roles in the regular season that I just don't see the argument against it. If your 2nd best player gets banged up or you have major holes in your starting lineup/6-8 than whatever you have at 10+ won't ever be able to overcome that. Nuggets potentially risking the starting SG/important bench spots is far more of a debate than being careless with the 10+ roster spots IMO.
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Post by famicommander on Jul 15, 2024 2:53:21 GMT -5
Bro Im not saying it cant be done, Im saying why are you advocating for it or defending it. Even if you can win with 8 NBA players, having 10 is much better. Huge stretch pretending i say its impossible. Im saying why tf do you guys prefer it? It's not realistic with our cap situation to have a team that's 14 deep. Ultimately you only need a 8-9 man rotation when you have a talent like Jokic. Were just relient on staying healthy(most teams are in the playoffs). I want the Nuggets to focus on the best 8 man rotation. Not building the deepest roster possible. What is a fair criticism and something I completely understand being unhappy with is letting KCP walk and rolling the dice on 3 young players to all improve and play above what they've shown when you have a talent like Jokic. Pickett/Tyson or whoever plays 11 MPG in 46 games during the regular season just doesn't move the needle for me. I literally just showed you a way we can have a deeper team while having a lower cap hit. Zeke makes more than 3 vet minimum cap hits by himself. Attach the picks to ship him with a team with cap space. Then they can either buy him out or join the fan club that is waiting until 2029 before he starts looking like he's actually been on a basketball court before.
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Post by nuggetshipster on Jul 15, 2024 2:55:03 GMT -5
Bro Im not saying it cant be done, Im saying why are you advocating for it or defending it. Even if you can win with 8 NBA players, having 10 is much better. Huge stretch pretending i say its impossible. Im saying why tf do you guys prefer it? It's not realistic with our cap situation to have a team that's 14 deep. Ultimately you only need a 8-9 man rotation when you have a talent like Jokic. Were just relient on staying healthy(most teams are in the playoffs). I want the Nuggets to focus on the best 8 man rotation. Not building the deepest roster possible. What is a fair criticism and something I completely understand being unhappy with is letting KCP walk and rolling the dice on 3 young players to all improve and play above what they've shown when you have a talent like Jokic. Pickett/Tyson or whoever plays 11 MPG in 46 games during the regular season just doesn't move the needle for me. Not realistic? He could have just not drafted Tyson and Pickett. He could have realized Zeke is trash. CBA didnt force Calvin to be a poor evaluator of talent. Jokic isnt a safteyblanket. His talent should be respected. Not taken for granted
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Post by famicommander on Jul 15, 2024 3:05:15 GMT -5
It's not realistic with our cap situation to have a team that's 14 deep. Ultimately you only need a 8-9 man rotation when you have a talent like Jokic. Were just relient on staying healthy(most teams are in the playoffs). I want the Nuggets to focus on the best 8 man rotation. Not building the deepest roster possible. What is a fair criticism and something I completely understand being unhappy with is letting KCP walk and rolling the dice on 3 young players to all improve and play above what they've shown when you have a talent like Jokic. Pickett/Tyson or whoever plays 11 MPG in 46 games during the regular season just doesn't move the needle for me. Not realistic? He could have just not drafted Tyson and Pickett. He could have realized Zeke is trash. CBA didnt force Calvin to be a poor evaluator of talent. Jokic isnt a safteyblanket. His talent should be respected. Not taken for granted Drafting Pickett and Tyson is forgivable. 2nd rounders usually miss and that's okay. Giving them both 3+1 year contracts is the problem. Without even changing the players themselves, last offseason could've been so much different. Draft Pickett and Tyson but sign them to two-way contracts instead. Sign Gillespie and Key to 1 year minimum non-guaranteed deals like they did when they converted Davon Reed from a two-way to a full contract the prior offseason. Now you have complete flexibility on all four guys. If Pickett and Tyson bombed, you can cut them both with zero penalties. If they both balled out, we'd still be in control of their RFA rights. And we could've tested out CG and Key on 1 year deals with basically zero risk, and then still moved on from them after the year if we chose to do so after the season. Or, if they balled out, again, you have their RFA rights. Basically he could've had all four guys on 1 or 2 year no risk deals and full RFA rights. Instead he chose to put two guys (the two better players) on 1 year no risk deals that weren't eligible for the playoffs and signed the two much worse guys to 3+1 deals.
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Post by GBG on Jul 15, 2024 3:46:34 GMT -5
Not realistic? He could have just not drafted Tyson and Pickett. He could have realized Zeke is trash. CBA didnt force Calvin to be a poor evaluator of talent. Jokic isnt a safteyblanket. His talent should be respected. Not taken for granted Drafting Pickett and Tyson is forgivable. 2nd rounders usually miss and that's okay. Giving them both 3+1 year contracts is the problem. Without even changing the players themselves, last offseason could've been so much different. Draft Pickett and Tyson but sign them to two-way contracts instead. Sign Gillespie and Key to 1 year minimum non-guaranteed deals like they did when they converted Davon Reed from a two-way to a full contract the prior offseason. Now you have complete flexibility on all four guys. If Pickett and Tyson bombed, you can cut them both with zero penalties. If they both balled out, we'd still be in control of their RFA rights. And we could've tested out CG and Key on 1 year deals with basically zero risk, and then still moved on from them after the year if we chose to do so after the season. Or, if they balled out, again, you have their RFA rights. Basically he could've had all four guys on 1 or 2 year no risk deals and full RFA rights. Instead he chose to put two guys (the two better players) on 1 year no risk deals that weren't eligible for the playoffs and signed the two much worse guys to 3+1 deals. This is all valid. But still isn’t the difference-maker between a second round playoff exit and NBA Finals/Chip. My bigger concern is that Booth demonstrates telltale signs of missing on the details. The fact he didn’t do what you, an armchair GM, are recommending tells me maybe Calvin is learning on the job. But the Nuggets FO is more than just Calvin. It thus calls the entire FO into question when the little things like you’re suggesting aren’t done. Still a 4/5 seed either way, though.
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Post by JB on Jul 15, 2024 6:47:57 GMT -5
Malone made it clear in a SL interview that he's expecting a backup PG not named Jalen Picket.
we're just waiting to see if we can hit a Tyus Jones homerun. we can't force him to speed up his decision. calm.
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Post by nuggetshipster on Jul 15, 2024 7:33:43 GMT -5
Tyus Jones is making his decision and signing for the minimum is not one of the things he is thinking about. So meaningless to sit and wait
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