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Post by game on Jul 15, 2024 10:54:13 GMT -5
Love that game criticized fami for using too much hyperbole in his vocabulary, and first thing fami says is: YOU'RE DELUSIONAL! lol Let people speak how they speak and try to understand what they are trying say. But instead many people prefer to make fun or illegitimize their opinion based on semantics Yeah, that's not even close to an accurate summary of the exchange, but neat take. |
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Post by game on Jul 15, 2024 11:22:29 GMT -5
I'm fine being the delusional one if that's what is helpful for people.
Braun is the bet. If he doesn't flourish (read: significantly better than last year), they are fucked with a capital F. After him, it's presumably Strawther. If he isn't playoff capable this year, they're probably fucked. So yes, really risky roster construction. The obvious move remains just keeping KCP, but they wanted to avoid the second apron, and this all neatly ties itself together if they aggregate some of these salaries to improve the roster. I'm not going to lose sleep waiting for that to happen.
Changing the type of personnel you have, or improving the personnel (however you see Reggie -> Russ and Zeke --> Saric) is what they chose to do. You can talk yourself into the arguments if you want. We just won't know until it happens. In theory, a more floor spacer/passer big who can play more like Jokic seems like a smart change at backup 5, versus more of a rim runner big. We'll see! The theory with Russ is he'll push the pace and get to the rim. Two things Reggie didn't do. But shooting takes a step back, so you need a floor spacing big.
All that, we'll just have to see.
Letting KCP walk is the variable I completely disagree with, but it's a bet on the guys you've drafted and that being under the second apron will be a strategic advantage. We'll just have to see on both fronts.
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Post by scooter on Jul 15, 2024 11:23:46 GMT -5
Drafting Pickett and Tyson is forgivable. 2nd rounders usually miss and that's okay. Giving them both 3+1 year contracts is the problem. Without even changing the players themselves, last offseason could've been so much different. Draft Pickett and Tyson but sign them to two-way contracts instead. Sign Gillespie and Key to 1 year minimum non-guaranteed deals like they did when they converted Davon Reed from a two-way to a full contract the prior offseason. Now you have complete flexibility on all four guys. If Pickett and Tyson bombed, you can cut them both with zero penalties. If they both balled out, we'd still be in control of their RFA rights. And we could've tested out CG and Key on 1 year deals with basically zero risk, and then still moved on from them after the year if we chose to do so after the season. Or, if they balled out, again, you have their RFA rights. Basically he could've had all four guys on 1 or 2 year no risk deals and full RFA rights. Instead he chose to put two guys (the two better players) on 1 year no risk deals that weren't eligible for the playoffs and signed the two much worse guys to 3+1 deals. This is all valid. But still isn’t the difference-maker between a second round playoff exit and NBA Finals/Chip. My bigger concern is that Booth demonstrates telltale signs of missing on the details. The fact he didn’t do what you, an armchair GM, are recommending tells me maybe Calvin is learning on the job. But the Nuggets FO is more than just Calvin. It thus calls the entire FO into question when the little things like you’re suggesting aren’t done. Still a 4/5 seed either way, though. The FO knew what it was doing in the sense that it knows how many roster spots the team has and its contract options for players over which it has control and its options to obtain players not currently under its control. Some folks here seem to be suggesting that the FO didn’t have enough fingers and toes to count or lost track of its count or just believed the agent of some 2nd round pick who said — “you know you guys are required to sign my guy to a 3 year deal.” It’s pretty silly. Last offseason they made a bet that it would be better to sign Nnaji, Pickett and Tyson to multi-year deals than not. They were super happy with what they had gotten from this player pool and contract situation with Braun and Watson, and wanted to try to keep that going. They’ve had 2 strokes of bad luck with the injury to Vlatko last summer and to Holmes this summer. Otherwise it’s all about talent evaluation and player development and team chemistry and continuity, and concerns about the team getting too old. Its not about “not knowing they could sign guys to two-way contracts” which seems to be the suggestion. |
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Post by Ring on Jul 15, 2024 12:21:42 GMT -5
I'm fine being the delusional one if that's what is helpful for people. Braun is the bet. If he doesn't flourish (read: significantly better than last year), they are fucked with a capital F. After him, it's presumably Strawther. If he isn't playoff capable this year, they're probably fucked. So yes, really risky roster construction. The obvious move remains just keeping KCP, but they wanted to avoid the second apron, and this all neatly ties itself together if they aggregate some of these salaries to improve the roster. I'm not going to lose sleep waiting for that to happen. Changing the type of personnel you have, or improving the personnel (however you see Reggie -> Russ and Zeke --> Saric) is what they chose to do. You can talk yourself into the arguments if you want. We just won't know until it happens. In theory, a more floor spacer/passer big who can play more like Jokic seems like a smart change at backup 5, versus more of a rim runner big. We'll see! The theory with Russ is he'll push the pace and get to the rim. Two things Reggie didn't do. But shooting takes a step back, so you need a floor spacing big. All that, we'll just have to see. Letting KCP walk is the variable I completely disagree with, but it's a bet on the guys you've drafted and that being under the second apron will be a strategic advantage. We'll just have to see on both fronts. Not worried about Braun at all. He's going to be an upgrade over KCP in many different areas. Wouldn't be as big of an issue slotting him into the 2 spot if AG could shoot but it is what it is. Braun is a fantastic cutter and a very smart, winning player. Also has fantastic chemistry with Jokic |
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Post by Dante on Jul 15, 2024 12:41:49 GMT -5
Agree with Ring that Braun is going to be an upgrade long term especially over KCP, maybe not to start the season but in 82 games in that starting role he will grow in each game.
Problem is not 10-15 guys. They suck anyway, if we need to play them extended minutes we are fucked anyway no matter if those are proven vets or Tyson/Zeke/Pickett.
Problem IS the overall play of the highest paid players not named Jokic. This is the year where Jamal and MPJ play up to their contracts or both of them gets traded (or Jokic ask out). If we flame out in the 2nd round or even WCF i can see the scenario where we package both Jamal and MPJ and go after a legit 2nd star to pair with Jokic (maybe Booker or DM)
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Post by famicommander on Jul 15, 2024 13:15:52 GMT -5
I'm fine being the delusional one if that's what is helpful for people. Braun is the bet. If he doesn't flourish (read: significantly better than last year), they are fucked with a capital F. After him, it's presumably Strawther. If he isn't playoff capable this year, they're probably fucked. So yes, really risky roster construction. The obvious move remains just keeping KCP, but they wanted to avoid the second apron, and this all neatly ties itself together if they aggregate some of these salaries to improve the roster. I'm not going to lose sleep waiting for that to happen. Changing the type of personnel you have, or improving the personnel (however you see Reggie -> Russ and Zeke --> Saric) is what they chose to do. You can talk yourself into the arguments if you want. We just won't know until it happens. In theory, a more floor spacer/passer big who can play more like Jokic seems like a smart change at backup 5, versus more of a rim runner big. We'll see! The theory with Russ is he'll push the pace and get to the rim. Two things Reggie didn't do. But shooting takes a step back, so you need a floor spacing big. All that, we'll just have to see. Letting KCP walk is the variable I completely disagree with, but it's a bet on the guys you've drafted and that being under the second apron will be a strategic advantage. We'll just have to see on both fronts. Not worried about Braun at all. He's going to be an upgrade over KCP in many different areas. Wouldn't be as big of an issue slotting him into the 2 spot if AG could shoot but it is what it is. Braun is a fantastic cutter and a very smart, winning player. Also has fantastic chemistry with Jokic Braun gave us 82 games off the bench last year and behind him we got 58 from Holiday and 50 from Strawther. So, now that Braun is responsible for replacing KCP.... again... the drop off behind Braun is enormous compared to last year. Holiday is gone, not replaced, and there's nobody behind Strawther who missed two months of his rookie year with a knee injury. Take Justin Holiday off the squad last year. That would absolutely have resulted in a lower seed. And this year we have even less depth in front of and behind the Holiday roster spot that we didn't even replace. |
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Post by Ring on Jul 15, 2024 13:54:37 GMT -5
Justin Holiday is not winning or losing you any games. Those guys are irrelevant. He was a 9th/10th man. Those guys don't matter and are interchangeable. Strawther playing Holidays role is not going to cost the Nuggets any games. Just like Holiday, Strawther will get hot from 3 in some games. That's literally all Holiday offered while playing adequate defense.
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Post by famicommander on Jul 15, 2024 14:06:19 GMT -5
Justin Holiday is not winning or losing you any games. Those guys are irrelevant. He was a 9th/10th man. Those guys don't matter and are interchangeable. Strawther playing Holidays role is not going to cost the Nuggets any games. Just like Holiday, Strawther will get hot from 3 in some games. That's literally all Holiday offered while playing adequate defense. Strawther playing for Holiday literally cost the Nuggets several games last season. We were a much, much better team with Holiday in the rotation. And, again.... Strawther was hurt for almost 6 weeks. So what the hell would we have done in those games? |
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Post by nuggetshipster on Jul 15, 2024 14:24:35 GMT -5
Justin Holiday is not winning or losing you any games. Those guys are irrelevant. He was a 9th/10th man. Those guys don't matter and are interchangeable. Strawther playing Holidays role is not going to cost the Nuggets any games. Just like Holiday, Strawther will get hot from 3 in some games. That's literally all Holiday offered while playing adequate defense. The word irrelevant is just wrong. Everyone on any pro sport team is relevant. Cant believe people actually believe this |
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Post by LotharBraunBrownBryant on Jul 15, 2024 14:27:10 GMT -5
When the big 4 are healthy, this team is going to win about 3/4 of games, and when guys miss games, the win rate will go down -- and that would be true no matter who the 11th man is. Jokic, AG, and a bunch of scrubs (with Jamal and MPJ hurt all year) were a 6 seed; the relatively-healthy Nuggets are a consistent top 3 seed. It's frustrating that maybe the win rate will be lower if we have to rely on Pickett to play meaningful minutes than if we had a vet min guard, and I think Booth's "project dynasty" strategy hasn't worked out because he didn't hit on the 2nd rounders, but as long as we're not running Pickett as the backup PG for 82 games (if we bring in Westbrook or Tyus Jones or Markelle Fultz or anybody who can play even at a meh level) we'll be fine -- and in the playoffs, even the 9th man will barely matter.
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Post by Ring on Jul 15, 2024 14:43:27 GMT -5
Justin Holiday is not winning or losing you any games. Those guys are irrelevant. He was a 9th/10th man. Those guys don't matter and are interchangeable. Strawther playing Holidays role is not going to cost the Nuggets any games. Just like Holiday, Strawther will get hot from 3 in some games. That's literally all Holiday offered while playing adequate defense. The word irrelevant is just wrong. Everyone on any pro sport team is relevant. Cant believe people actually believe this They're irrelevant in terms of wins/losses for the most part. |
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Post by Ring on Jul 15, 2024 14:50:09 GMT -5
Justin Holiday is not winning or losing you any games. Those guys are irrelevant. He was a 9th/10th man. Those guys don't matter and are interchangeable. Strawther playing Holidays role is not going to cost the Nuggets any games. Just like Holiday, Strawther will get hot from 3 in some games. That's literally all Holiday offered while playing adequate defense. Strawther playing for Holiday literally cost the Nuggets several games last season. We were a much, much better team with Holiday in the rotation. And, again.... Strawther was hurt for almost 6 weeks. So what the hell would we have done in those games? No it didn't lol. Reggie-Holiday-Braun-Watson-Zeke had a -18.2 net rating which was our main bench lineup since Malone doesn't stagger. Same lineup but swapping Strawther for Holiday had a -16.3 net. Also, name me an NBA team that has 12 NBA caliber players. There are none. This is how the NBA works. You are lucky to have 8 NBA caliber rotation players. The rest of the guys you hope can give you 5-10 minutes a game in case of a short term injury. The end of the bench on almost all NBA teams are either past their prime scrub veterans or late 1sts/2nds that probably can't play in the NBA. |
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Post by duh88 on Jul 15, 2024 19:59:37 GMT -5
#1 fan of DELUSIONAL posters!
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Post by JB on Jul 15, 2024 20:39:19 GMT -5
Strawther playing for Holiday literally cost the Nuggets several games last season. We were a much, much better team with Holiday in the rotation. And, again.... Strawther was hurt for almost 6 weeks. So what the hell would we have done in those games? No it didn't lol. Reggie-Holiday-Braun-Watson-Zeke had a -18.2 net rating which was our main bench lineup since Malone doesn't stagger. Same lineup but swapping Strawther for Holiday had a -16.3 net. Also, name me an NBA team that has 12 NBA caliber players. There are none. This is how the NBA works. You are lucky to have 8 NBA caliber rotation players. The rest of the guys you hope can give you 5-10 minutes a game in case of a short term injury. The end of the bench on almost all NBA teams are either past their prime scrub veterans or late 1sts/2nds that probably can't play in the NBA. how soon we forget. Ty Lawson YMCAndre Arron Afflalo C-Brew Rudy Fernandez Gallo Wilson Chandler Al Harrington Faried Nene Mozzy Koufus |
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Post by LotharBraunBrownBryant on Jul 15, 2024 21:10:07 GMT -5
that was an unusually deep Nuggets team.
How about this: let's look at every team that won at least one playoff series last year, and look at who their 9th-10th men were in the playoffs and the combined stats for those 2 guys just to get an idea of what kind of player that usually is
Boston - Kornet, Tillman Sr, combined 5/5/1
Cleveland - Merrill, Niang, 6/2/1
Indy - I. Jackson, McDermott, 5/4/1
Knicks - Robinson, Bojan, 9/10/2
Dallas - THJ, Exum, 6/3/1
Denver - PWat, Strawther (or DAJ), 4/2/1
Minny - Monte, Mclaughlin, 3/1/1
OKC - Jaylin Williams, Hayward, 5/5/2
Now, the Nuggets' projected rotation this year is Jamal/CB/MPJ/AG/Joker and Russ/Strawther/PWat/Vlatko/Saric. If the 9th/10th guys there are Vlatko and Strawther, I'd project them as like 5/3/1 combined in the playoffs, which is perfectly normal for the 9th/10th guys. Nobody on the list there is like "man if only we had Doug McDermott instead of Vlatko, that'd make the difference in a playoff series!" I'm not jealous of McLaughlin as the 10th man in the playoffs. What's very likely to matter is if our big 4 outplay other teams' best players, and if CP/PWat/Russ/Saric at least don't get smoked. A few minutes from Strawther and Vlatko is like, hey, dudes just gotta keep up with THJ and Exum or at least not get smoked too bad in their 3 minutes on the court.
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Post by nuggetshipster on Jul 16, 2024 4:06:26 GMT -5
that was an unusually deep Nuggets team. How about this: let's look at every team that won at least one playoff series last year, and look at who their 9th-10th men were in the playoffs and the combined stats for those 2 guys just to get an idea of what kind of player that usually is Boston - Kornet, Tillman Sr, combined 5/5/1 Cleveland - Merrill, Niang, 6/2/1 Indy - I. Jackson, McDermott, 5/4/1 Knicks - Robinson, Bojan, 9/10/2 Dallas - THJ, Exum, 6/3/1 Denver - PWat, Strawther (or DAJ), 4/2/1 Minny - Monte, Mclaughlin, 3/1/1 OKC - Jaylin Williams, Hayward, 5/5/2 Now, the Nuggets' projected rotation this year is Jamal/CB/MPJ/AG/Joker and Russ/Strawther/PWat/Vlatko/Saric. If the 9th/10th guys there are Vlatko and Strawther, I'd project them as like 5/3/1 combined in the playoffs, which is perfectly normal for the 9th/10th guys. Nobody on the list there is like "man if only we had Doug McDermott instead of Vlatko, that'd make the difference in a playoff series!" I'm not jealous of McLaughlin as the 10th man in the playoffs. What's very likely to matter is if our big 4 outplay other teams' best players, and if CP/PWat/Russ/Saric at least don't get smoked. A few minutes from Strawther and Vlatko is like, hey, dudes just gotta keep up with THJ and Exum or at least not get smoked too bad in their 3 minutes on the court. Bro you spent the entire last summer arguing how the bench wouldnt be a problem. How one could argue the bench would be better. Using cute stats to fit that narrative What happened? We lost because our bench was worthless and Malone ran starters into the ground |
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Post by nuggetshipster on Jul 16, 2024 4:32:45 GMT -5
People pretend the regular season dont matter for some reason
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Post by nuggetshipster on Jul 16, 2024 4:44:48 GMT -5
Let people speak how they speak and try to understand what they are trying say. But instead many people prefer to make fun or illegitimize their opinion based on semantics Yeah, that's not even close to an accurate summary of the exchange, but neat take. Why the f**k would i summarize the exchange? I just offered a perspective. That wasnt heard, but rather met with smartass comments. Ironically exactly what i talked about lmao |
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Post by game on Jul 16, 2024 10:36:30 GMT -5
Predictable song and dance that I have negative desire to spend time on. Cheers to you. Hope all is well.
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Post by Ring on Jul 16, 2024 10:42:50 GMT -5
No it didn't lol. Reggie-Holiday-Braun-Watson-Zeke had a -18.2 net rating which was our main bench lineup since Malone doesn't stagger. Same lineup but swapping Strawther for Holiday had a -16.3 net. Also, name me an NBA team that has 12 NBA caliber players. There are none. This is how the NBA works. You are lucky to have 8 NBA caliber rotation players. The rest of the guys you hope can give you 5-10 minutes a game in case of a short term injury. The end of the bench on almost all NBA teams are either past their prime scrub veterans or late 1sts/2nds that probably can't play in the NBA. how soon we forget. Ty Lawson YMCAndre Arron Afflalo C-Brew Rudy Fernandez Gallo Wilson Chandler Al Harrington Faried Nene Mozzy Koufus A) That team was a first round exit B) That team had no max players so it was much easier to have a deeper roster C) That was like 10+ years ago lol |
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