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Post by nuggetshipster on Aug 10, 2024 1:23:20 GMT -5
fami i am not even aware of what you just said. I am not following boxing. I said fighting in terms of fighting in sport, not in martial arts. I meant every sport. I am not saying that we are at that point fully in every sport, but that we are on that trajectory 100%. I am sorry if i ofended you, but i am not sorry for saying that i accept only man and woman in this world of human beings. That is my stance and if you got offended, you just empower my original point that the world has become to sensitive for every litle thing. Back to sports please. I posted that KD tweet as a joke response to rock saying that we play @suns on Christmas. Don't try to backpeddle now. You mentioned men fighting women right after you complained about the opening ceremony, and there has been an extreme anti-trans backlash against a cisgendered woman in these very Olympic games. She won a gold medal today. You knew exactly what you were doing. As for the rest of your explanation for your plain and naked bigotry, save it. Anyone thinking any woman with that testosteron levels should be fighting «normal» women is legit insane |
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Post by famicommander on Aug 10, 2024 1:40:32 GMT -5
Don't try to backpeddle now. You mentioned men fighting women right after you complained about the opening ceremony, and there has been an extreme anti-trans backlash against a cisgendered woman in these very Olympic games. She won a gold medal today. You knew exactly what you were doing. As for the rest of your explanation for your plain and naked bigotry, save it. Anyone thinking any woman with that testosteron levels should be fighting «normal» women is legit insane Her testosterone levels were tested just like every other athlete at the Olympics. There is no evidence she has ever tested for elevated testosterone in any context. Do some actual research: www.washingtonpost.com/sports/olympics/2024/08/01/imane-khelif-algerian-boxer-gender-paris-olympics/She fought at the Olympics in Tokyo too and lost. She has lost 9 times to other women. She has a career record of 47-9 with 7 knockouts in her amateur career. She has 1 Olympic gold and 1 silver at the World Games. That is an impressive record but it's far from being the most impressive out there. Compare that to Claressa Shields: 64-1 amateur record with 5 knockouts (was 16 when she lost, has since beaten that same opponent twice as an amateur and once as a pro) 2X Olympic Gold Medalist 2X World Games Gold Medalist 15-0 pro record with 3 KOs 154 pound professional undisputed world champion 160 pound professional undisputed world champion (twice) 168 pound professional unified world champion 175 pound professional unified world champion Or Katie Taylor: 199-13-1 amateur record 1X Olympic Gold Medalist 5X World Games Gold Medalist, 1X Bronze Medalist 23-1 pro record 135 pound professional undisputed world champion 140 pound professional undisputed world champion, also 1X WBO titlist People who watch boxing know that Imane Khelif is nothing special in the world of elite women's fighters. This is a completely manufactured controversy that only exists because a Russian-backed organization that has since been kicked out of the Olympics for ethical concerns was upset that she beat a Russian fighter in the semi-finals of a tournament. She had already gotten a silver at the world games and lost at the Olympics, and they let her advance all the way in the tournament until she beat a Russian fighter before she failed an unspecified gender test. They refuse to elaborate on why she failed but she has never once failed a testosterone test or any other drug or hormone test. |
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Post by nuggetshipster on Aug 10, 2024 1:49:36 GMT -5
Her fighting record has absolutely nothing to do with anything. Like if you are bad enough you can fight against women? That makes no sense and «zero tolerance» is the only option.
I have no doubt that she was misgendered at birth due to underdeveloped genetalia. And have been raised as a woman her entire life.
It has nothing to do with being anti trans. Its about being ethically and physically defendable.
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Post by famicommander on Aug 10, 2024 2:00:03 GMT -5
Her fighting record has absolutely nothing to do with anything. Like if you are bad enough you can fight against women? That makes no sense and «zero tolerance» is the only option. I have no doubt that she was misgendered at birth due to underdeveloped genetalia. It has nothing to do with being anti trans. Its about being ethically and physically defendable. You have no evidence for any of your claims. What actually happened is that she beat an undefeated Russian prospect and a singular Russian man with power made up a new standard which he won't tell anyone else about to disqualify her from competition after the fact and restore his undefeated fighter's record. That man and his entire organization were later banned from the Olympics entirely for unrelated ethical concerns. olympics.com/ioc/news/joint-paris-2024-boxing-unit-ioc-statementwww.washingtonpost.com/sports/olympics/2024/08/01/imane-khelif-algerian-boxer-gender-paris-olympics/There is no evidence she has ever failed a test for elevated testosterone. She has to pass drug tests and hormone tests and weigh in just like everybody else. There is no evidence she has any competitive advantage whatsoever. And, again, you really don't understand what men fighting women looks like if you think a Khelif fight is it. Shields, the greatest of all time, tried to spar a random unaccomplished male fighter recently and was knocked out in seconds. The gap is seriously that large. Shields is orders of magnitude better than Khelif and even she can't hang with random journeyman pro men for 30 seconds. If Khalif had the advantages of a male fighter she'd be obliterating her opponents. |
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Post by nuggetshipster on Aug 10, 2024 2:18:26 GMT -5
Evidence? I dont work at these labs lmao.
You CHOOSE to discredit the only gender test that actually have been done. Because of what? Some conspiracy theory?
You arent at all looking to have a genuine conversation about this. You want to arrest and prove how everyone else is a bigot.
Twisting this into being «you are anti-trans» is pretty sick and disingenuous. No matter what articles or expert opinions I present you absolutely would do anything to discredit it. So why bother?
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Post by nuggetshipster on Aug 10, 2024 2:21:26 GMT -5
I know lots of women that would kick your ass in a boxing ring Fami. So your last sentence again proves noting.
And it’s about having clear regulations Fami. Where is your cut off? Is it penis based? When can’t a person with XY chromosome fight someone with XX?
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Post by nuggetshipster on Aug 10, 2024 2:25:36 GMT -5
Can someone explain why some Russian (no idea why this is relevant) president of the IBA would frame some mediocre woman for having an Y chromosones?
Are we still in the 80s and anything Russian is evil?
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Post by LotharBraunBrownBryant on Aug 10, 2024 2:38:17 GMT -5
I have no doubt that she was misgendered at birth due to underdeveloped genetalia. And have been raised as a woman her entire life. Here's an incomplete list of possibilities: - Khelif is intersex, XY or XXY, has ambiguous / mixed / partially-developed genitalia and was treated as a girl but has considerable physical advantages due to high testosterone etc. - Khelif is intersex, XY or XXY, was not ambiguous as an infant but has undescended testes and therefore did not undergo normal female puberty but instead developed some male advantages due to high testosterone etc. - Khelif is XY or XXY, but does not have ambiguous development due to having a damaged SRY gene, complete androgen insensitivity, or a similar condition, underwent completely normal female puberty, and has no physical advantages (more details on how this could happen in my last post) - Khelif is XX, totally normal woman aside from being kinda ugly, and the IBA sent in samples from a man in order to discredit her for nefarious reasons By my read, the first two are the least likely -- while the IOC doesn't do genetic tests (since they're using the IBA's 2016 rules, not their 2023 rules) they do testosterone tests, as has the IBA for Khelif's whole boxing career, and I would expect someone intersex would consistently fail those, and the IBA wouldn't have needed to run new tests in 2022-23, they'd have just said "this boxer failed repeated testosterone tests." I don't have sufficient evidence to distinguish between the latter two possibilities, though, and I can't completely rule out the first two, just treat them as much less likely. |
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Post by famicommander on Aug 10, 2024 2:40:35 GMT -5
Evidence? I dont work at these labs lmao. You CHOOSE to discredit the only gender test that actually have been done. Because of what? Some conspiracy theory? You arent at all looking to have a genuine conversation about this. You want to arrest and prove how everyone else is a bigot. Twisting this into being «you are anti-trans» is pretty sick and disingenuous. No matter what articles or expert opinions I present you absolutely would do anything to discredit it. So why bother? They won't say what the test was. First they said it was a testosterone test, then they admitted it wasn't. Then they said they had WADA do a gender test, but then WADA said they only do drug testing. Then they said she failed a chromosome test, but refused to elaborate. Then they said it was an unspecified DNA test. They have provided no proof to anyone in any context. But, again, she had never failed any test at any point prior to defeating a favored Russian fighter in the semi-finals of a tournament and she has not failed any tests since. She has fought as both a professional and as an amateur under multiple different regulating bodies in multiple countries with multiple different standards and rulesets and nobody, in any context, has ever officially questioned her eligibility to compete until she beat someone she was supposed to lose to. Including having competed in the same damn tournament in different years, and competing against non-Russian fighters in the very same tournament. The IBA is controlled by a personal friend of Vladimir Putin and he did what he did to Khelif (and a Taiwanese fighter) for no other reason than that they beat Russian fighters. If Khelif had lost like she was expected to nobody would ever have heard about these alleged gender tests. The IBA is absolutely infamous for corruption and scandals. It has been this way for decades, for many reasons having nothing to do with gender politics. They are literally the only organization to ever be kicked out of the Olympics entirely. Their nonsense nearly got the entire sport of boxing booted from the Games. |
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Post by BBBbbb on Aug 10, 2024 2:43:24 GMT -5
Anyone thinking any woman with that testosteron levels should be fighting «normal» women is legit insane So this is either advocating for everyone getting participation awards and canceling ranking or saying women’s sports are a gimmick. Why? Because we seem to tolerating the same situation in men’s sports. Do you think Mike Tyson had normal hormon levels at 18yo? That body did not see much myostatin. Do you think LBJ’s natural hormon levels near the average. That man is deviating in genetics from an average man so much it’s ridiculous, doing this at age 39… Should have we banned Messi from football for having external hGH so he doesn’t end up a dwarf? You can yell - they’re using steroids, and probably yes, but so are many others, and yet it is the fact they are genetical freaks that sets them apart and makes them so successful. So you have a FEMALE born boxer that has higher test levels genetically. Why are we treating it differently? P.S. I am absolutely against ppl that just decided to identify as an opposite gender and want to compete in that group. Sorry but no, there are some rights you don’t get when deciding to chose gender… |
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Post by LotharBraunBrownBryant on Aug 10, 2024 2:43:37 GMT -5
By the way -- if I was writing the regulations, I absolutely would write them to protect women's sports in the maximal way. No Y chromosomes, no SRY genes, and no high testosterone. But I also don't trust the IBA, and even if they're telling the truth, I acknowledge the possibility that this could exclude some people who are unambiguously female in every phenotypic way (see the NIH article I linked to on the previous page) and it would suck for them, and wouldn't be some sort of great culture-war victory, it'd just be an edge case that I think it's better not to make an exception for.
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Post by nuggetshipster on Aug 10, 2024 3:10:52 GMT -5
Anyone thinking any woman with that testosteron levels should be fighting «normal» women is legit insane So this is either advocating for everyone getting participation awards and canceling ranking or saying women’s sports are a gimmick. Why? Because we seem to tolerating the same situation in men’s sports. Do you think Mike Tyson had normal hormon levels at 18yo? That body did not see much myostatin. Do you think LBJ’s natural hormon levels near the average. That man is deviating in genetics from an average man so much it’s ridiculous, doing this at age 39… Should have we banned Messi from football for having external hGH so he doesn’t end up a dwarf? You can yell - they’re using steroids, and probably yes, but so are many others, and yet it is the fact they are genetical freaks that sets them apart and makes them so successful. So you have a FEMALE born boxer that has higher test levels genetically. Why are we treating it differently? P.S. I am absolutely against ppl that just decided to identify as an opposite gender and want to compete in that group. Sorry but no, there are some rights you don’t get when deciding to chose gender… So much going on here. There are medical factors. Like the strenght of ones cranium for one. LBJ doesnt try to punch his opponent as hard as he can in the face You, no offense kinda seem anti trans and doesnt understand the essenece of the problematic situation. It is literally about safety of the boxers. |
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Post by nuggetshipster on Aug 10, 2024 3:12:52 GMT -5
By the way -- if I was writing the regulations, I absolutely would write them to protect women's sports in the maximal way. No Y chromosomes, no SRY genes, and no high testosterone. But I also don't trust the IBA, and even if they're telling the truth, I acknowledge the possibility that this could exclude some people who are unambiguously female in every phenotypic way (see the NIH article I linked to on the previous page) and it would suck for them, and wouldn't be some sort of great culture-war victory, it'd just be an edge case that I think it's better not to make an exception for. Why dont you trust IBA? Why would they frame Khelif? An up until now extremely mediocre boxer |
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Post by famicommander on Aug 10, 2024 3:30:43 GMT -5
By the way -- if I was writing the regulations, I absolutely would write them to protect women's sports in the maximal way. No Y chromosomes, no SRY genes, and no high testosterone. But I also don't trust the IBA, and even if they're telling the truth, I acknowledge the possibility that this could exclude some people who are unambiguously female in every phenotypic way (see the NIH article I linked to on the previous page) and it would suck for them, and wouldn't be some sort of great culture-war victory, it'd just be an edge case that I think it's better not to make an exception for. Why dont you trust IBA? Why would they frame Khelif? An up until now extremely mediocre boxer Since Umar Kremlev took over the organization he has moved its operations to Russia, banned all Ukrainian fighters, and took on the Russian government as the sole financial sponsor of an organization that was already in trouble for decades worth of corruption, ethical concerns, unpaid debt, cheating scandals, and other various nonsense. Kremlev is also literally in charge of the only legal bookmaker in Russia, is in charge of regulating all gambling laws in Russia, and is the largest financial stakeholder in the three largest betting companies in Russia, a position he was directly appointed to by Vladimir Putin. He opposes independent oversight of judges and referees and he heavily engages in cult of personality behavior. He also has a history of using homophobia to attack opponents, calling the head of the IOC a sodomite and later fabricating these gender issues against two fighters at the exact moment they beat favored Russian fighters. Even his own subordinates admonished him for changing the standards in the middle of a competition when he disqualified the two women for reasons he has given multiple contradictory explanations for and repeatedly refused to show anybody any proof. He literally claimed the WADA did some sort of gender test and they replied that they only test for drugs. Again, you didn't look into this at all. He's a Putin-appointed, homophobic gambling czar pretending to be objective while he oversees a formerly "international" organization that is now funded entirely by the Russian state. |
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Post by bignuggets on Aug 10, 2024 8:42:02 GMT -5
Bogdanovic would be so good on DEN. Came here just to say this. Trade MPJ. Win a title. |
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Post by wizardofcozz on Aug 10, 2024 8:52:44 GMT -5
Bogdanovic would be so good on DEN. Came here just to say this. Trade MPJ. Win a title. If you could get Bogdanovic and Hunter I'd do that trade! Gives us two shooters for one and more versatility. |
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Post by JB on Aug 10, 2024 9:16:56 GMT -5
great to see Algeria and Arab world embrace Imane.
I guess Arabs know what a woman is, unlike conservative wack jobs in the west conducting the modern day equivalent of witch trials.
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Post by wizardofcozz on Aug 10, 2024 9:35:20 GMT -5
great to see Algeria and Arab world embrace Imane. I guess Arabs know what a woman is, unlike conservative wack jobs in the west conducting the modern day equivalent of witch trials. They did a genetic test and they has an xy chromosome. The person is mostly likely intersex. And shouldn't be competing in a women's division. |
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Post by JB on Aug 10, 2024 10:20:51 GMT -5
great to see Algeria and Arab world embrace Imane. I guess Arabs know what a woman is, unlike conservative wack jobs in the west conducting the modern day equivalent of witch trials. They did a genetic test and they has an xy chromosome. The person is mostly likely intersex. And shouldn't be competing in a women's division. "they" = some corrupt untrustworthy body under the control of Vladmir Putin's cronies. perhaps you should read Lothar's post. I've heard members of the 'trans skeptic' community say "you can only call yourself a woman if you were born with a vagina" so many times it could be their personal mantra. Imane meets their criteria of a woman, period. |
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Post by wicked3line on Aug 10, 2024 10:43:28 GMT -5
Bogdanovic would be so good on DEN. Came here just to say this. Trade MPJ. Win a title. Most, if not all of us would love to see MPJ traded for a couple of rotation pieces. However, in the 2nd apron era nobody is taking on MPJ for three more seasons on a max deal unless Calvin includes multiple 1st round picks...which Denver doesn't have. Not saying I like it, but I've accepted the fact MPJ isn’t going anywhere since Stan forced an MPJ contract that the franchise is stuck with at least until the trade deadline of his last year (e.g., February 2027). |
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