Game 4: Denver Nuggets @ Los Angeles Lakers 6:30 MT

[JB]

that Jamal Murray/Barton/MPJ/AG/Jokic starting lineup was a plus-minus goldmine before the Warriors game when Murray tore his ACL. they looked unstoppable. especially now that Murray has finally put the "bubble fraud" fake news to bed and we know what he's capable of when healthy.

I know Barton has become a caricature of himself but that was probably the last season he was a productive NBA player. in that 4th-5th option role, he was very effective.

[duh88]

May 23, 2023 20:01:49 GMT -5 JB said:

that Jamal Murray/Barton/MPJ/AG/Jokic starting lineup was a plus-minus goldmine before the Warriors game when Murray tore his ACL. they looked unstoppable. especially now that Murray has finally put the "bubble fraud" fake news to bed and we know what he's capable of when healthy.

I know Barton has become a caricature of himself but that was probably the last season he was a productive NBA player. in that 4th-5th option role, he was very effective.

I try not to get upset about this. Something to be said that AG and Jokic got ample time to find a good sync together - and AG also spent that time getting more responsbilities and upping his game (same can be said for MPJ too). 

Let's also not forget that MPJ needed one more back surgery too. For me, I'm thankful that MPJ and Murray had their injuries at the same time. AG, MPJ, Murray and Jokic are all under contract for the next 2 seasons after this season. 

Don't begrudge too hard - let's get this banner, and then see what happens the next two seasons. 

[LotharBraunBrownBryant]

yeah, would have sucked to have Jamal out for 2 years and then lose MPJ the year Jamal came back.

[freakns]

May 23, 2023 15:41:05 GMT -5 famicommander said:

I don't think it's even arguable that the Kroenkes are great sports owners. I don't know dick about Euro soccer so I won't comment on Arsenal or Arsenal WFC, but on this continent they've owned or partially owned 6 teams
Rams - 1 Super Bowl as full owners, 1 Super Bowl as minority owners
Avs - 2 Stanley Cups (first one was before they bought them)
Mammoth - 2 NLL Championships, playing for a 3rd starting Saturday
Rapids - 1 MLS Championship
Crush - 1 Arena Bowl as minority owner (with John Elway and Pat Bowlen; league went bankrupt when the real estate bubble popped in 2008)
Nugs - playing for their first NBA championship

If the Mammoth and Nugs both pull it off they'll have 10 championships in less than 30 seasons as a sports owner in North America.

Arsenal had complete meltdown started right around when NBA playoffs started. Last 8 matches, they won 2, draw 3 and lose 3, so they won 9 out of possible 24 points. In same time, main rival for title, Manchester City, won all 8 matches and 24 points. So Arsenal was 8 points up, now they 7 points behind. There are only 3 games left, so thats pretty much it. They will stay second as they are 11 points in front of third place.

European soccer has no salary cup or things like that, so you kind of have 5-6 upper echelon teams in Premier League. Arsenal is kind of on the bottom there. When you look at money, its Manchester City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Manchester United and top 4, then slightly behind Arsenal and Tottenham. So second place is still great result for Arsenal, but they blew great chance for title, one they haven't won for 20 years. And no, there are no playoffs in soccer domestic leagues. Only Euroleague has playoffs

[scooter]

May 24, 2023 0:39:37 GMT -5 freakns said:

May 23, 2023 15:41:05 GMT -5 famicommander said:

I don't think it's even arguable that the Kroenkes are great sports owners. I don't know dick about Euro soccer so I won't comment on Arsenal or Arsenal WFC, but on this continent they've owned or partially owned 6 teams
Rams - 1 Super Bowl as full owners, 1 Super Bowl as minority owners
Avs - 2 Stanley Cups (first one was before they bought them)
Mammoth - 2 NLL Championships, playing for a 3rd starting Saturday
Rapids - 1 MLS Championship
Crush - 1 Arena Bowl as minority owner (with John Elway and Pat Bowlen; league went bankrupt when the real estate bubble popped in 2008)
Nugs - playing for their first NBA championship

If the Mammoth and Nugs both pull it off they'll have 10 championships in less than 30 seasons as a sports owner in North America.

Arsenal had complete meltdown started right around when NBA playoffs started. Last 8 matches, they won 2, draw 3 and lose 3, so they won 9 out of possible 24 points. In same time, main rival for title, Manchester City, won all 8 matches and 24 points. So Arsenal was 8 points up, now they 7 points behind. There are only 3 games left, so thats pretty much it. They will stay second as they are 11 points in front of third place.

European soccer has no salary cup or things like that, so you kind of have 5-6 upper echelon teams in Premier League. Arsenal is kind of on the bottom there. When you look at money, its Manchester City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Manchester United and top 4, then slightly behind Arsenal and Tottenham. So second place is still great result for Arsenal, but they blew great chance for title, one they haven't won for 20 years. And no, there are no playoffs in soccer domestic leagues. Only Euroleague has playoffs

I only follow as a casual fan, but I do know that Arsenal has a younger roster than all or most of its rivals, as the oldest guys who play regularly are 30 and 31 and a lot of their important players are in their early to mid 20’s. Now, some of that could be budget minded as it appears they’ve mostly eschewed big money transfers for veteran players. And I don’t know the contractual situation for these players. But in general, it appears they’ve done a good job of building for the long term. If you are winning in the Premier League with 21 year old starters, you are doing something right.

Big picture is that Kroenkes run their team as businesses because KSE is their main business, which is not the case with many owners today in the big money sports. Owning a sports team has always been a status and fun toy for some rich and now super rich people (both in the US and abroad), and that’s not the Kroenkes, who don’t “own a sports team,” they run a sports and entertainment empire. So they don’t give blank checks to management guys they hire and consider cost/benefit when it comes to spending. That can frustrate fans, many of whom prefer to see a fan rather than a businessman owning their team. But on balance they are good owners despite seeming to be rather emotionally remote from their teams and fans. Neither Stan nor Josh makes an effort to appear to be “a man of the people” and that’s definitely a turn off for some fans.

[okie25]

May 23, 2023 16:46:01 GMT -5 inyourmind said:

May 23, 2023 15:44:08 GMT -5 okie25 said:

Are they or are the Nuggets used to being neglected from the Ascent/comsat days? I've seen too many first-rounders sent out to dump salaries and too many deals for cash considerations.

Not doubt there's been some cheap moments but they've spent when it was needed for the most part.

All the MPJ/Murray injuries when you have an MVP had to be tough. Pretty great argument that we maxed MPJ/Murray earlier than alot of teams would have as well. Would have been easy to try and trade 1 of them to save a little cash. Especially MPJ. If they traded MPJ along with some assets to get a player back who was actually healthy on a shorter deal to save some money .. I think alot of the fanbase would have been fine with that at the time.

Ownership has shown a ton of patience with this Nuggets core/Malone and it's paid off with the first ever finals app.

Malone's rotations have been baffling (You can't tell me that Nnaji or Bryant couldn't have contributed against the Suns when they went small or the Lakers when AD did get a rest) at times. Jokic has given the Nuggets a uniqueness. Booth has assembled a much improved defensive team, but that credit doesn't go to leadership as much as common sense. Malone's crutches in Campazzo and Barton had to be traded.

And to be controversial, I'm not sure Porter Jr. wasn't an overpay. Is he a max player? To an extent in this market, you do have to overpay, but I'm not sure this move had to be done---which also contradicts my comments on the owner's cheapness, but I don't think Joshy should get a ton of the credit here as the Nuggets do seem kind of like his plaything. Hitting on Jokic and then having Murray fall (and drafting him was a no-brainer) fixed a lot of ills and mistakes by the franchise. When you have a franchise-changing player with the court-vision that Jokic has, it fixes a lot of ills and makes everyone look better. Credit to Booth for helping fix some of the perimeter defense issues...hopefully next year, the post-defense is fixed (calling Kamagate!) and a usable backup point guard joins. An old poster from the RMN forum days (indra) always had a theory to fast or assist-minded pgs in round two as they're more abundant...and that theory from the 90s is still a touch relevant today (Monte Morris, etc.). The 40 pick can do that, or the title run may attract a veteran willing to sign for less.

So, while my posts do contradict themselves to an extent, it's the uniqueness with an MVP who is changing the entire game of basketball that is the main factor here and it would have happened with or without the Kroenkes as any decent owner (not Ascent/COMSAT) would have seen his value. To borrow a poster's handle, it's a "duh" moment.

[scooter]

May 24, 2023 9:36:23 GMT -5 okie25 said:

Malone's rotations have been baffling (You can't tell me that Nnaji or Bryant couldn't have contributed against the Suns when they went small or the Lakers when AD did get a rest) at times.

Strong disagree.

A huge key to the Nuggets postseason run has been a low number of turnovers and winning the possession game. It just cannot be underestimated in importance. For the 15 game postseason, the Nuggets have a team-wide 2.5 A/To ratio (#1 of 16 playoff teams), only 10.3 turnovers/game (#1), and 7.1 steals/game (2nd to Heat among conference finalists). If you want to beat playoff opponents — really good teams with high end NBA talent — at the turnover/steal/possession game, the guys who actually play in the playoffs have to have shown they will help and not hurt the team in its effort to win that aspect of basketball. Its one of the reasons you don’t see many inexperienced players — on any teams — playing in the playoffs. Neither Nnaji nor Bryant had proven that they could cut it — against top teams at playoff intensity — when it came to these factors. Malone played the guys who could be trusted and even cut CB out of the rotation the last couple of games after he started looking increasingly shaky whenever he got the ball.

[okie25]

My counter: Jeff Green. He continually was beat by his man, but continued to play.

CB needed to be cut out vs. LAL so no disagreement there, but it's difficult to go seven deep, which indicates roster construction is not what it needs to be.

[GBG]

They’ve certainly gotten by with seven man rotation and an elderly stiff being the seventh guy. I don’t know how much longer we can stick with that until our luck runs out and losses happen.

[rock]

May 24, 2023 12:47:10 GMT -5 GBG said:

They’ve certainly gotten by with seven man rotation and an elderly stiff being the seventh guy. I don’t know how much longer we can stick with that until our luck runs out and losses happen.

Why can’t we squeeze two more guys in for 5-8 min each?

I feel like it can help.

Fortunately the finals aren’t every other day so our guys can recover between games

[nuggetshipster]

May 24, 2023 9:36:23 GMT -5 okie25 said:

May 23, 2023 16:46:01 GMT -5 inyourmind said:

Not doubt there's been some cheap moments but they've spent when it was needed for the most part.

All the MPJ/Murray injuries when you have an MVP had to be tough. Pretty great argument that we maxed MPJ/Murray earlier than alot of teams would have as well. Would have been easy to try and trade 1 of them to save a little cash. Especially MPJ. If they traded MPJ along with some assets to get a player back who was actually healthy on a shorter deal to save some money .. I think alot of the fanbase would have been fine with that at the time.

Ownership has shown a ton of patience with this Nuggets core/Malone and it's paid off with the first ever finals app.

Malone's rotations have been baffling (You can't tell me that Nnaji or Bryant couldn't have contributed against the Suns when they went small or the Lakers when AD did get a rest) at times. Jokic has given the Nuggets a uniqueness. Booth has assembled a much improved defensive team, but that credit doesn't go to leadership as much as common sense. Malone's crutches in Campazzo and Barton had to be traded.

And to be controversial, I'm not sure Porter Jr. wasn't an overpay. Is he a max player? To an extent in this market, you do have to overpay, but I'm not sure this move had to be done---which also contradicts my comments on the owner's cheapness, but I don't think Joshy should get a ton of the credit here as the Nuggets do seem kind of like his plaything. Hitting on Jokic and then having Murray fall (and drafting him was a no-brainer) fixed a lot of ills and mistakes by the franchise. When you have a franchise-changing player with the court-vision that Jokic has, it fixes a lot of ills and makes everyone look better. Credit to Booth for helping fix some of the perimeter defense issues...hopefully next year, the post-defense is fixed (calling Kamagate!) and a usable backup point guard joins. An old poster from the RMN forum days (indra) always had a theory to fast or assist-minded pgs in round two as they're more abundant...and that theory from the 90s is still a touch relevant today (Monte Morris, etc.). The 40 pick can do that, or the title run may attract a veteran willing to sign for less.

So, while my posts do contradict themselves to an extent, it's the uniqueness with an MVP who is changing the entire game of basketball that is the main factor here and it would have happened with or without the Kroenkes as any decent owner (not Ascent/COMSAT) would have seen his value. To borrow a poster's handle, it's a "duh" moment.

People still complaining about Malone lmao

[nuggetshipster]

May 24, 2023 12:47:10 GMT -5 GBG said:

They’ve certainly gotten by with seven man rotation and an elderly stiff being the seventh guy. I don’t know how much longer we can stick with that until our luck runs out and losses happen.

Our «luck» will run out because we dont play Nnaji or Bryant?

[famicommander]

If there's a ninth man who gets minutes in this series it's damn sure not Thomas Bryant.

Zeke, Vlatko, Watson, Jackson, and even Jordan and Ish are way ahead of him in the line for minutes. Bryant is the 15th man.

[chelu_DN]

Hey Nuggets Fans, here on Guam we just got hit by a pretty big storm and we are just waking up and starting to see the extent of the damage. Storms are a part of life here but doesn’t make it any easier when we have to deal with one. Spent most of the night hoping my windows and doors wouldn’t blow in. It was stressful and exhausting. I made i through alright and thankfully we still have cellular service. Hopefully the weather lightens up enough today and we can start the recovery process. Sorry for the long post but just needed to vent. One thing that will definitely keep my spirits up is the fact that the Nuggets are in the Finals!!! Be well, everyone and Go Nuggets!!!

[duh88]

I understand rotation criticisms -
But we don’t sweep LA without Jeff green. We beat them, but not in 4.

Uncle Jeff took so many critical charges and made some critical 3-pointers. On the whole, he also played excellent defense for who he is (stayed in front of his man).

I don’t like the 7 man rotation - but suggestions that green doesn’t play - I’m not in agreement with that.

[duh88]

May 24, 2023 15:55:23 GMT -5 chelu_DN said:

Hey Nuggets Fans, here on Guam we just got hit by a pretty big storm and we are just waking up and starting to see the extent of the damage. Storms are a part of life here but doesn’t make it any easier when we have to deal with one. Spent most of the night hoping my windows and doors wouldn’t blow in. It was stressful and exhausting. I made i through alright and thankfully we still have cellular service. Hopefully the weather lightens up enough today and we can start the recovery process. Sorry for the long post but just needed to vent. One thing that will definitely keep my spirits up is the fact that the Nuggets are in the Finals!!! Be well, everyone and Go Nuggets!!!

Sorry to hear fam - are you and your family okay

[rock]

May 24, 2023 15:55:23 GMT -5 chelu_DN said:

Hey Nuggets Fans, here on Guam we just got hit by a pretty big storm and we are just waking up and starting to see the extent of the damage. Storms are a part of life here but doesn’t make it any easier when we have to deal with one. Spent most of the night hoping my windows and doors wouldn’t blow in. It was stressful and exhausting. I made i through alright and thankfully we still have cellular service. Hopefully the weather lightens up enough today and we can start the recovery process. Sorry for the long post but just needed to vent. One thing that will definitely keep my spirits up is the fact that the Nuggets are in the Finals!!! Be well, everyone and Go Nuggets!!!

Sorry to hear this!

I know it’s a long shot but lmk if I can help in anyway

[chelu_DN]

Thanks duh and rock!!! Family is safe, that’s the important thing. Came through it pretty well considering how strong the storm was. I will be good, just as long as we get electricity back in time for the finals 🤣🤣 Take care everyone!!

[blackhill]

Justin Kubatko: Players who who have averaged at least 30 PPG with 50/40/90 shooting splits in a conference finals: ✅ Jamal Murray (2023) That’s it. That’s the list.

[duh88]

May 24, 2023 19:44:03 GMT -5 blackhill said:

Justin Kubatko: Players who who have averaged at least 30 PPG with 50/40/90 shooting splits in a conference finals: ✅ Jamal Murray (2023) That’s it. That’s the list.

Further reason - second best nugget ever.

Yes we’ve had guys average more. But energy is not an endless thing. Murray conserves and brings out his best when it matters most. One of the few players in this league that can win games single-handedly, and truly values banners over easy points.