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Post by duh88 on Apr 15, 2023 3:22:16 GMT -5
Minny has been very shaky, overall, with many of their games. Let's not lose sight of the fact that - yes - they completely shellacked OKC, but OKC was also basically playing without a center, against KAT and Gobert.
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Post by freakns on Apr 15, 2023 6:00:18 GMT -5
Nuggets needs to win as soon as possible. Winning in 7 is just not good enough.
Win both in Denver, steal one in Minnesota, close the series in Denver. Cause thats what Championship contenders do.
So we need to start at 90% or above, cause guys need to realize, everyone's future is on line. I dont think anyone but Jokic and Booth are safe. Malone is gone if Nuggets aren't in finals. Murray and MPJ will be dealt if Nuggets fail. Maybe not by their own fault, but if you are max player, you can't just miss 2 playoffs then underperform in 3rd. Similar goes to AG who had terrible playoffs last year. This all can change if Jokic plays bad and Nuggets go out, then I'm not sure what next step is, but every other scenario is either finals or full team reconstruction. Thats how serious it is cause we are in year 3 of Jokic's prime and first two were waisted on incompetent roster.
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Post by JB on Apr 15, 2023 8:32:23 GMT -5
yes, Favors/Gobert gave Jokic trouble. but that was a long time ago.
in theory, having a physical defender rough up Joker with an elite help defender shading all action is the best way to defend Jokic. it's what the Lakers did with the Dwight/AD combo to great effect.
but Karl Anthony-Towns is no Derrick Favors defensively. he's no Dwight Howard defensively. he's closer to Trey Lyles. I would be surprised if Finch subjects KAT to Jokic duty so Gobert will be compelled to be the primary Jokic defender, thus nullifying his help defense.
Nuggets in 5.
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Post by scooter on Apr 15, 2023 11:44:40 GMT -5
Malone is gone if Nuggets aren't in finals. Murray and MPJ will be dealt if Nuggets fail. Maybe not by their own fault, but if you are max player, you can't just miss 2 playoffs then underperform in 3rd. Similar goes to AG who had terrible playoffs last year. This all can change if Jokic plays bad and Nuggets go out, then I'm not sure what next step is, but every other scenario is either finals or full team reconstruction. Thats how serious it is cause we are in year 3 of Jokic's prime and first two were waisted on incompetent roster. This is so overly dramatic. The Clippers have a payroll $30 mil more (plus tons of luxury tax) than the Nuggets — is literally everyone gone there if they don’t upset the Suns in the first round and at least make it to the western conference finals? Lue, Leonard, George, Powell, Morris, Batum, Zubac, Mann . . . Everyone not named Ballmer? Or is it everybody except one player (2x Finals MVP Leonard?) as in this post? Since the Clippers payroll including luxury tax is about $140 mil more than the Nuggets, why wouldn’t all the heads there roll in the absence of a Finals appearance? Same for Suns, whose payroll including luxury tax is $50+ Mil more than the Nuggets — is everyone there going to get fired/traded if they don’t make the Finals? How about the Pelicans, who missed the playoffs? Ingram, McCollum and Williamson are all max players — I suppose every one of them is traded this offseason while coach Willie Green and all of his assistants and VP David Griffin (head of FO) and the mascot and all of the ball boys and are fired. I could go on and on with this, but ya’ll get the point: Dramaqueens. |
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Post by Ring on Apr 15, 2023 12:11:28 GMT -5
Malone is 100% gone if the Nuggets don't make the WCF. I don't think there's any way possible that doesn't happen.
He's the 4th longest tenured coach in the NBA and hasn't made a finals. 8th season here. That just doesn't happen.
If the Nuggets flame out early it's basically a guarantee that Malone is gone and Murray's probably traded.
Don't compare the Nuggets to the Clippers or Pelicans because they both have major injuries to their star players nor have Ty Lue/Willie Green been coaching those teams for 8 years.
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Post by GBG on Apr 15, 2023 12:16:38 GMT -5
Malone is 100% gone if the Nuggets don't make the WCF. I don't think there's any way possible that doesn't happen. He's the 4th longest tenured coach in the NBA and hasn't made a finals. 8th season here. That just doesn't happen. If the Nuggets flame out early it's basically a guarantee that Malone is gone and Murray's probably traded. Don't compare the Nuggets to the Clippers or Pelicans because they both have major injuries to their star players nor have Ty Lue/Willie Green been coaching those teams for 8 years. Oh yeah? I agree with scooter and you’re a dramaqueen. What if Murray is playing so hurt that they lose in the second round because he can’t shoot with his aching thumb? Is Malone gone? C’mon. Predict what you think will happen, not what YOU want to have happen if the Nuggets are eliminated before WCF. |
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Post by GBG on Apr 15, 2023 12:18:05 GMT -5
Malone is gone if Nuggets aren't in finals. Murray and MPJ will be dealt if Nuggets fail. Maybe not by their own fault, but if you are max player, you can't just miss 2 playoffs then underperform in 3rd. Similar goes to AG who had terrible playoffs last year. This all can change if Jokic plays bad and Nuggets go out, then I'm not sure what next step is, but every other scenario is either finals or full team reconstruction. Thats how serious it is cause we are in year 3 of Jokic's prime and first two were waisted on incompetent roster. This is so overly dramatic. The Clippers have a payroll $30 mil more (plus tons of luxury tax) than the Nuggets — is literally everyone gone there if they don’t upset the Suns in the first round and at least make it to the western conference finals? Lue, Leonard, George, Powell, Morris, Batum, Zubac, Mann . . . Everyone not named Ballmer? Or is it everybody except one player (2x Finals MVP Leonard?) as in this post? Since the Clippers payroll including luxury tax is about $140 mil more than the Nuggets, why wouldn’t all the heads there roll in the absence of a Finals appearance? No heads will roll, except they’ll trade Bones. 😉 |
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Post by Ring on Apr 15, 2023 12:32:52 GMT -5
Malone is 100% gone if the Nuggets don't make the WCF. I don't think there's any way possible that doesn't happen. He's the 4th longest tenured coach in the NBA and hasn't made a finals. 8th season here. That just doesn't happen. If the Nuggets flame out early it's basically a guarantee that Malone is gone and Murray's probably traded. Don't compare the Nuggets to the Clippers or Pelicans because they both have major injuries to their star players nor have Ty Lue/Willie Green been coaching those teams for 8 years. Oh yeah? I agree with scooter and you’re a dramaqueen. What if Murray is playing so hurt that they lose in the second round because he can’t shoot with his aching thumb? Is Malone gone? C’mon. Predict what you think will happen, not what YOU want to have happen if the Nuggets are eliminated before WCF. I think that Malone is gone if the Nuggets don't make the finals. If Murray is the reason they lost a series, I think he gets traded. I wouldn't be surprised if both of those things happen. I think there's a > 50% chance both happen if the Nuggets lose before the WCF. The Nuggets are paying the tax and Jokic hasn't had a 2nd all star his entire career. You think Stan and co are going to pay the tax after a 1st or 2nd round exit with a "Run it back" attitude? Not happening. There is no possible way Malone is surviving 8 seasons with a 2X MVP without a Finals appearance. Just not happening. Malone isn't special. He's going to get held to the same level of accountability every other NBA coach has. And realistically, he would have been gone already had Murray not bought him 2 free years. If the Nuggets hadn't reached a finals with a healthy team these past 2 years, he would have been gone. |
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Post by freakns on Apr 15, 2023 12:34:30 GMT -5
Malone is gone if Nuggets aren't in finals. Murray and MPJ will be dealt if Nuggets fail. Maybe not by their own fault, but if you are max player, you can't just miss 2 playoffs then underperform in 3rd. Similar goes to AG who had terrible playoffs last year. This all can change if Jokic plays bad and Nuggets go out, then I'm not sure what next step is, but every other scenario is either finals or full team reconstruction. Thats how serious it is cause we are in year 3 of Jokic's prime and first two were waisted on incompetent roster. This is so overly dramatic. The Clippers have a payroll $30 mil more (plus tons of luxury tax) than the Nuggets — is literally everyone gone there if they don’t upset the Suns in the first round and at least make it to the western conference finals? Lue, Leonard, George, Powell, Morris, Batum, Zubac, Mann . . . Everyone not named Ballmer? Or is it everybody except one player (2x Finals MVP Leonard?) as in this post? Since the Clippers payroll including luxury tax is about $140 mil more than the Nuggets, why wouldn’t all the heads there roll in the absence of a Finals appearance? Same for Suns, whose payroll including luxury tax is $50+ Mil more than the Nuggets — is everyone there going to get fired/traded if they don’t make the Finals? I could go on and on with this, but ya’ll get the point: Dramaqueens. its not dramatic at all. longest tenured coaches in NBA: Pop - 27 seasons, 5 rings Spoelstra - 15 seasons, 2 rings Kerr - 9 seasons, 4 rings Malone - 8 seasons, 0 NBA finals Budenholzer - 5 seasons, 1 ring Nurse - 5 seasons, 1 ring Since Casey got cooked, there is no other NBA with more then 5 seasons in their current team. so the only coaches with 5 or more seasons in one team are either NBA champions or Michael Malone. Jamal Murray is in his 3rd season as max player. While I'm the first one who will say what someone does should never be tied with his salary, cause if team overpays them, its team fault, not their, if in first 3 seasons of your max contract you do not show up in playoffs in two of those and then underperform in third, there is a big chance team will admit they fucked up, especially if that team changed general manager. Same goes for MPJ Or AG, great regular season, but he melts in playoffs? and then Dallas comes and say, Luka for Jamal and AG and first? Are you really going to say no? I would, but front office will surely think about it. I'm not saying this will happen for sure, but it will be on the line if Nuggets underperform. And yes, losing to Phoenix in second round as no1 seed would be underperforming. |
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Post by jimijam28 on Apr 15, 2023 12:49:42 GMT -5
Put up or shutup > bring it in
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Post by inyourmind on Apr 15, 2023 17:47:01 GMT -5
Malone is gone if Nuggets aren't in finals. Murray and MPJ will be dealt if Nuggets fail. Maybe not by their own fault, but if you are max player, you can't just miss 2 playoffs then underperform in 3rd. Similar goes to AG who had terrible playoffs last year. This all can change if Jokic plays bad and Nuggets go out, then I'm not sure what next step is, but every other scenario is either finals or full team reconstruction. Thats how serious it is cause we are in year 3 of Jokic's prime and first two were waisted on incompetent roster. This is so overly dramatic. The Clippers have a payroll $30 mil more (plus tons of luxury tax) than the Nuggets — is literally everyone gone there if they don’t upset the Suns in the first round and at least make it to the western conference finals? Lue, Leonard, George, Powell, Morris, Batum, Zubac, Mann . . . Everyone not named Ballmer? Or is it everybody except one player (2x Finals MVP Leonard?) as in this post? Since the Clippers payroll including luxury tax is about $140 mil more than the Nuggets, why wouldn’t all the heads there roll in the absence of a Finals appearance? Same for Suns, whose payroll including luxury tax is $50+ Mil more than the Nuggets — is everyone there going to get fired/traded if they don’t make the Finals? How about the Pelicans, who missed the playoffs? Ingram, McCollum and Williamson are all max players — I suppose every one of them is traded this offseason while coach Willie Green and all of his assistants and VP David Griffin (head of FO) and the mascot and all of the ball boys and are fired. I could go on and on with this, but ya’ll get the point: Dramaqueens. So many of these examples makes zero sense lol like why would the Pelicans have the same expectations as the 1st seed Nuggets? Especially when there missing Zion. We literally just saw everybody get a pass in Denver due to health the past two seasons. George/Leonard are 30+ and at this point what's left to tweak? Sooner or later it'll come for them. I do think context is important tho. If the Nuggets lose a tough WCF to the Suns? Nothing major is happening. If someone gets hurt or if Murray balls out and the Nuggets just come up short than maybe it'll just be Malone getting the axe. You have to let things unfold because what happens and how it happens will determine everything but there's no doubt this is a pivotal playoffs for the Nuggets and the expectations are as high as they've ever been and it's pretty obvious everyone including Malone/Joker was feeling that towards the end of the season. The reality is Malone's been here for 8 years, Nuggets ownership has paid absolutely everybody and will pay the lux tax, we've got the 1st seed and finally have a healthy core. Were low on assets/cap and with this core were likely looking at the best possible chance. If the Nuggets lose to the T-Wolves in the 1st round? I won't pretend to know what the braintrust will do but the obvious move will be making a major shakeup when Jokic still has a few more years left of his prime. Your not running things back 100% the same if the Nuggets disappoint in the playoffs. |
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Post by duh88 on Apr 15, 2023 18:32:57 GMT -5
You could easily run things back with a DIFFERENT coach.
We have a fantastic roster. If we don’t take the banner, then there’s one obvious fix to be made.
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Post by inyourmind on Apr 15, 2023 19:12:02 GMT -5
You could easily run things back with a DIFFERENT coach. We have a fantastic roster. If we don’t take the banner, then there’s one obvious fix to be made. Yeah but HC's don't decide championships in the NBA. It's not the NFL. We've seen that. Phil Jackson didn't go to the Knicks and win rings. He didn't win rings with the Lakers/Kobe until they got the supporting cast. Nuggets will need to get pretty creative to create a roster that's better next season than it is this season. Certainly possible I guess with the right amount of luck and someone like Watson breaking out in a big way but far from a sure thing. You'd also have to add the reasons why we disappointed in the playoffs. It won't be 100% Malone and no other reason. I get some people on NT would like to think that but Malone won't decide a playoff series himself. It'll take other things. Murray not playing up to his potential, Gordon having another bad playoffs, Jokic continuing to not be aggressive scoring/teams attacking his defensive flaws etc. It's all premature and we need to see things play out. IMO comparing our expectations/situations to the Pelicans/Clippers make zero sense tho. Malone doesn't have the impact to decide if this team gets bounced in the 1st/2nd round. If you get knocked out in a close 2nd round matchup and everyone plays good? Than yeah fire Malone and run it back. If you make the WCF? Explore coaching options and potentially run it back. If the Nuggets are disappointing overall and certain players lay an egg? You'd be insane to run it back given where Jokic is age wise. Like if we go out in 6 games in the 2nd round with Murray playing poorly, AG playing poorly, and Jokic not being able to play to his standards .. than yeah only changing the coaching would make me wanna pull my hair out. |
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Post by duh88 on Apr 15, 2023 20:34:01 GMT -5
You must not have heard of Doug Collins in Chicago (before Phil jackson), or Steve Kerr in GS before Mark Jackson; or Gregg Popavich before Bob Hill in SA.
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Post by Ring on Apr 15, 2023 20:36:46 GMT -5
Yeah the Kerr/Jackson one stands out the most to me because Kerr came in and completely changed the offensive system the Warriors played and really focused on off-ball movement. The rest is history.
Like there's no doubt in my mind a different coach could get much more out of MPJ on the offensive end. I don't know what exactly Malone does well in terms of on-court stuff. The ATOs are never creative, he struggles with rotations/adjustments, etc
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Post by inyourmind on Apr 15, 2023 21:19:46 GMT -5
You must not have heard of Doug Collins in Chicago (before Phil jackson), or Steve Kerr in GS before Mark Jackson; or Gregg Popavich before Bob Hill in SA. I have heard of them. I'm just like 99.9% of the basketball community where I don't assign the majority of the credit to the coach. Fun fact duh .. it was Tex Winter who created the triangle offense. Not Phil Jackson. Pop is the perfect example. You think if you gave him Vince Carter instead of Duncan they'd have rings? You think D-Rob gets a ring if it wasn't for one of the GOAT 1st overall picks in Tim Duncan. What's Pop up to these days? The GOAT coach.. I've already posted articles/interviews multiple times in the past but Mark Jackson literally got fired in GS because of politics. Not basketball reasons. He's basically blacklisted from the NBA. If you think a coach is the deciding factor between a Curry/Green/Thompson core winning a ring? Your lost in the sauce and no need to continue this conversation. If you think adding Durant doesn't make the coach irrelevant than I don't even know what to say. Malone would have a ring if you gave him Durant/Curry/Klay/Green lol like imagine replacing Murray with prime Curry right now? Firing Malone won't be the difference between being a 1st/2nd round exit and a ring. It can be the difference between being a tough WCF out/championship team maybe. It can be the difference between being a 2nd round out and than a finals team assuming you tweak the core. Malone deserves to be fired outside of a WCF/finals birth. If we don't win a ring this year than I legit won't mind if he gets fired no matter. Like we can make the WCF and if he gets the boot I'll personally be like whatever and time for a new voice. Only on NT would some people think that's the only difference that needs to be made. Feels like for some the entire core could crumble and convince themselves a coach is the only reason why. |
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Post by inyourmind on Apr 15, 2023 21:24:58 GMT -5
Yeah the Kerr/Jackson one stands out the most to me because Kerr came in and completely changed the offensive system the Warriors played and really focused on off-ball movement. The rest is history. Like there's no doubt in my mind a different coach could get much more out of MPJ on the offensive end. I don't know what exactly Malone does well in terms of on-court stuff. The ATOs are never creative, he struggles with rotations/adjustments, etc lmao Steph Curry has been lighting it up off the ball since Davidson. Same with Klay. If you think Steve Kerr is responsible for taking advantage of the two of the greatest off the ball scorers in the history of the NBA(and two guys who absolutely dominated at it during college as well ftr) than your insane. You know what the biggest differences were? Curry/Klay/Green were all a year older and got better and they swapped out David Lee for Andrew Bogut. Klay was like 23 years old in Jackson's last year. Curry still 25. It's rare to win rings that early. They literally lost in the finals next season and needed to add Durant to win more .. but yeah that Steve Kerr addition was the big move lmao |
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Post by rock on Apr 15, 2023 21:39:32 GMT -5
Man I hope the nuggets have even half the heart these kings have
When the nuggets get down, they tend to stay down
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Post by JB on Apr 15, 2023 22:22:00 GMT -5
is this the greatest playoff debut of all time? Fox is something else man.
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Post by jimijam28 on Apr 15, 2023 22:27:22 GMT -5
light the beam
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