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Post by TNF on May 9, 2022 13:36:19 GMT -5
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Post by TNF on May 9, 2022 17:53:03 GMT -5
I realize it was pretty much a foregone conclusion, but I am surprised at the lack of comments about his accomplishment.
No Denver player in any sport has ever accomplished such a thing in this old, dusty cow-town.
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Post by jimijam28 on May 9, 2022 18:00:29 GMT -5
Yawn
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Post by LotharBraunBrownBryant on May 9, 2022 18:06:30 GMT -5
hoes mad
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Post by scooter on May 9, 2022 18:38:40 GMT -5
Jokic is fantastic and I love Bones’ enthusiasm! |
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Post by TNF on May 9, 2022 19:25:30 GMT -5
Agreed. Joker is amazing, and Bones' attitude is a great positive for the Nuggets future. My favorite rookie in recent memory.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2022 14:17:42 GMT -5
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Post by Miura on May 10, 2022 17:03:52 GMT -5
Meanwhile in Sombor, Serbia  |
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Post by passtheballquick on May 10, 2022 21:19:46 GMT -5
I just read a page or two and the strangest argument that Giannis's and Embiid's fans are trying to use is the number of wins. It's just straight stupid as neither Giannis or Embiid played in more wins than Jokic this year. People only without brain can use that as an argument. Wins do matter but only if you played in those wins. If you didn’t sorry, those are not your wins. But luckily voters are smart enough. Just curious what the argument is going to be next year when Jokic wins it again lol |
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Post by famicommander on May 10, 2022 21:38:33 GMT -5
There is no coherent argument for anybody but Jokic. Anyone who thinks he's not the MVP either didn't watch him play enough or is simply blinded by homerism.
Not one GM in the league would trade you Jokic for Embiid.
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Post by AbdulJabber on May 10, 2022 22:58:15 GMT -5
To be fair, I think the greatest argument is about defense. Didn't help that the Nuggets let GS run us off the court in games one and two. Jokic was often the target defensively and the warriors death lineup was just brutal. Once we slowed things down and made it a halfcourt game, Jokic started to shine again, but some of the damage was already done.
I'll take Jokic over both Embiid and Giannis, but we do need to play to his strengths.
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Post by JB on May 10, 2022 23:44:34 GMT -5
and to be additionally fair, Embiid has a negative DBPM in the playoffs so far so unless you're a wing/big hybrid like Giannis, you're getting targeted in the playoffs.
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Post by famicommander on May 11, 2022 0:14:28 GMT -5
To be fair, I think the greatest argument is about defense. Didn't help that the Nuggets let GS run us off the court in games one and two. Jokic was often the target defensively and the warriors death lineup was just brutal. Once we slowed things down and made it a halfcourt game, Jokic started to shine again, but some of the damage was already done. I'll take Jokic over both Embiid and Giannis, but we do need to play to his strengths. Jokic vs Embiid, defensive regular season stats Blocks per game: 0.9 vs 1.5 (advantage Embiid) Steals per game: 1.5 vs 1.1 (advantage Jokic) Defensive rebounds per game: 11.0 vs 9.6 (advantage Jokic) Deflections per game: 2.9 vs 1.7 (advantage Jokic) Fouls committed per game: 2.6 vs 2.7 (advantage Jokic) Total defensive RAPTOR: 6.0 vs 4.2 (advantage Jokic) On/Off defensive RAPTOR: 3.4 vs 3.3 (advantage Jokic) Defensive box score RAPTOR: +6.2 vs +4.1 (advantage Jokic) Defensive win shares: 4.5 vs 4.1 (advantage Jokic) Defensive box plus/minus: 4.5 vs 2.0 (advantage Jokic) Charges drawn per game: 0.03 vs 0.01 (advantage Jokic) Defensive loose balls per game: 0.3 vs 0.6 (advantage Embiid) Contested shots per game: 12.2 vs 9.5 (advantage Jokic) Defensive rating: 105.3 vs 105.3 (push) Opponents second chance points per game: 7.9 vs 8.8 (advantage Jokic) Defense is more than just blocking shots. |
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Post by planaria on May 11, 2022 5:15:37 GMT -5
Embiid defense had been completly exposed on the playoffs since Raptors series.
At this point, even the homers are avoiding the defense as argument.
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Post by nuggetshipster on May 11, 2022 10:11:43 GMT -5
To be fair, I think the greatest argument is about defense. Didn't help that the Nuggets let GS run us off the court in games one and two. Jokic was often the target defensively and the warriors death lineup was just brutal. Once we slowed things down and made it a halfcourt game, Jokic started to shine again, but some of the damage was already done. I'll take Jokic over both Embiid and Giannis, but we do need to play to his strengths. Jokic vs Embiid, defensive regular season stats Blocks per game: 0.9 vs 1.5 (advantage Embiid) Steals per game: 1.5 vs 1.1 (advantage Jokic) Defensive rebounds per game: 11.0 vs 9.6 (advantage Jokic) Deflections per game: 2.9 vs 1.7 (advantage Jokic) Fouls committed per game: 2.6 vs 2.7 (advantage Jokic) Total defensive RAPTOR: 6.0 vs 4.2 (advantage Jokic) On/Off defensive RAPTOR: 3.4 vs 3.3 (advantage Jokic) Defensive box score RAPTOR: +6.2 vs +4.1 (advantage Jokic) Defensive win shares: 4.5 vs 4.1 (advantage Jokic) Defensive box plus/minus: 4.5 vs 2.0 (advantage Jokic) Charges drawn per game: 0.03 vs 0.01 (advantage Jokic) Defensive loose balls per game: 0.3 vs 0.6 (advantage Embiid) Contested shots per game: 12.2 vs 9.5 (advantage Jokic) Defensive rating: 105.3 vs 105.3 (push) Opponents second chance points per game: 7.9 vs 8.8 (advantage Jokic) Defense is more than just blocking shots. This is my problem with advanced stats tho, because IMO Embiid is pretty clearly a more impactful defender. One on one and help. But Jokic is being coached by a guy obsessed with Munders. Saying Embiid is a better defender is not saying Embiid should win MVP tho |
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Post by nuggetshipster on May 11, 2022 10:12:11 GMT -5
Embiid defense had been completly exposed on the playoffs since Raptors series. At this point, even the homers are avoiding the defense as argument. Like Jokic defense wasn't exposed tho lol |
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Post by JB on May 11, 2022 10:18:19 GMT -5
like I said, all traditional bigs get "exposed" to one degree or another in the playoffs. NBA coaches are well aware that extremely large humans are less mobile than (relatively) smaller humans and exploit that fact.
but we need to be honest fellas. I really don't care what the numbers say, Jokic with Embiid's athletic/defensive ability is a better basketball player than Lebron and virtually unstoppable.
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Post by jimijam28 on May 11, 2022 11:29:59 GMT -5
Yawn
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Post by famicommander on May 11, 2022 12:15:04 GMT -5
Jokic vs Embiid, defensive regular season stats Blocks per game: 0.9 vs 1.5 (advantage Embiid) Steals per game: 1.5 vs 1.1 (advantage Jokic) Defensive rebounds per game: 11.0 vs 9.6 (advantage Jokic) Deflections per game: 2.9 vs 1.7 (advantage Jokic) Fouls committed per game: 2.6 vs 2.7 (advantage Jokic) Total defensive RAPTOR: 6.0 vs 4.2 (advantage Jokic) On/Off defensive RAPTOR: 3.4 vs 3.3 (advantage Jokic) Defensive box score RAPTOR: +6.2 vs +4.1 (advantage Jokic) Defensive win shares: 4.5 vs 4.1 (advantage Jokic) Defensive box plus/minus: 4.5 vs 2.0 (advantage Jokic) Charges drawn per game: 0.03 vs 0.01 (advantage Jokic) Defensive loose balls per game: 0.3 vs 0.6 (advantage Embiid) Contested shots per game: 12.2 vs 9.5 (advantage Jokic) Defensive rating: 105.3 vs 105.3 (push) Opponents second chance points per game: 7.9 vs 8.8 (advantage Jokic) Defense is more than just blocking shots. This is my problem with advanced stats tho, because IMO Embiid is pretty clearly a more impactful defender. One on one and help. But Jokic is being coached by a guy obsessed with Munders. Saying Embiid is a better defender is not saying Embiid should win MVP tho Steals, deflections, charges taken, contested shots, and fouls aren't even advanced stats. They're basic ones. Embiid is stronger and faster than Jokic, he can jump higher, and he can block shots better. Jokic has faster hands, is way more durable, he has way better court vision, he has better communication, and most importantly a way higher basketball IQ. Jokic impacts the entire team defense on a level Embiid cannot. Embiid is simply a better rim protector. Jokic is better at literally every other aspect of defense. |
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Post by JB on May 11, 2022 12:34:51 GMT -5
well, rim protection is pretty important from your front court - which is why I've spent years preaching the necessity of pairing Jokic with a shot-blocking 4.
and while Jokic is certainly underrated defensively, we should be cognizant of the fact that the physical toll of playing on both ends of the court is far greater for Jokic. he cannot rest on his athleticism to get stops and has to exert more energy which causes significant fatigue issues for him. that is a problem for Joker and the Nuggets and surrounding him with soft finesse players that are incapable of staying in front of a shopping cart makes the problem 100x worse.
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