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Post by scooter on Feb 8, 2020 18:36:22 GMT -5
Russell is a good enough #2 to compete for a lower seed in the West, especially with the likelihood of OKC dropping out of the playoff race this summer (unless you think it's Presti's goal to emulate the post-Melo Nuggets). there is nothing more demoralizing to a team than paying the max to a guy that plays with the same effort and passion for the game as Trey Lyles. the Warriors are about to learn that lesson. Yeah no clue how people don't like the move from the Wolves perspective. Russell-Beasley-KAT is a pretty lethal 3 point shooting trio. They'll be terrible defensivley but a ton of fun They will be bad, and the Warriors are smart enough to have taken advantage of that. Look at the TWolves' roster -- they have exactly 2 NBA starters (both of whom are terrible defenders) unless you count James Johnson who has played less than 300 minutes all season. I can't see them being a playoff team next season -- the Warriors, Blazers and Pelicans will definitely be better next season and other teams might be as well. I'd say it's more likely the Warriors are dead last in the west next season than that they'll be a playoff team.
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Post by blackhill on Feb 8, 2020 18:48:17 GMT -5
Wolves will suck so hard for long time.
Beasley will fight Vikings just so he can feel something inside again
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Post by AbdulJabber on Feb 8, 2020 20:12:18 GMT -5
Not worried at all about the wolves, but I do think Beas has some upside. It'll be kinda interesting to see what him and juancho do with bigger roles.
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Post by duh88 on Feb 8, 2020 20:28:49 GMT -5
Giannis is not going to the warriors.lol. He is happy in Milwaukee, isn't a I have to be in the Big city type. Now that doesn't mean he isn't going to leave but the Warriors are on the decline Curry be 32 next year fwiw and Green isn't a star. I wouldn’t bet on that. Just my 2 cents
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Post by duh88 on Feb 8, 2020 21:15:31 GMT -5
Damn - Beasley is apparently better than towns
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Post by fortcollinsnuggets on Feb 8, 2020 21:27:17 GMT -5
Russell is a good enough #2 to compete for a lower seed in the West, especially with the likelihood of OKC dropping out of the playoff race this summer (unless you think it's Presti's goal to emulate the post-Melo Nuggets). there is nothing more demoralizing to a team than paying the max to a guy that plays with the same effort and passion for the game as Trey Lyles. the Warriors are about to learn that lesson. Yeah no clue how people don't like the move from the Wolves perspective. Russell-Beasley-KAT is a pretty lethal 3 point shooting trio. They'll be terrible defensivley but a ton of fun because I watch bball. KAT is soft and lost 14 I n a row. Russell has the dumbest teammate moment ever in LA. They both like benefits of the NBA but don't care about the winning part. Just wait and see. Not a single team is afraid of the TWolves
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2020 11:45:49 GMT -5
Yeah no clue how people don't like the move from the Wolves perspective. Russell-Beasley-KAT is a pretty lethal 3 point shooting trio. They'll be terrible defensivley but a ton of fun because I watch bball. KAT is soft and lost 14 I n a row. Russell has the dumbest teammate moment ever in LA. They both like benefits of the NBA but don't care about the winning part. Just wait and see. Not a single team is afraid of the TWolves If you watched basketball you saw Russell lead the Nets to the playoffs last year right? People pretending like Russell/KAT isn't a good starting point for a team are just kidding themselves. You get the top tier talent first, then you build around those guys. I'm not saying they'll ever be a true contender but they're clearly much better than they were before the deadline. Russell/Beasley/KAT is a nice starting point. Okogie is a good defender. Culver has some good defensive upside. Maybe KAT will buy in defensively now that Wiggins is gone who he very clearly hated playing with. The way you're describing KAT/Russell is exactly what Wiggins is.
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Post by scooter on Feb 9, 2020 13:06:14 GMT -5
People pretending like Russell/KAT isn't a good starting point for a team are just kidding themselves. You get the top tier talent first, then you build around those guys. I'm not saying they'll ever be a true contender but they're clearly much better than they were before the deadline. Top tier talent? This is the 5th season for each of them, and each are on max contracts. Russell is so great he's cracked (just barely) 30 minutes/game in one of four seasons before this tanking season for the Warriors (serving as what GBG calls a "tank commander"), and he's now on his 4th team in 5 seasons. He's been a negative player defensively in 5 out of 5 seasons, is a second tier player on offense, and has had maturity/drama issues. I'm not saying he's a terrible player, but "top tier talent" he is not, or teams wouldn't keep trading him. Towns has top tier physical talent to be sure, but over almost 5 seasons his track record is that he doesn't play hard at least half the time. He has a -3.36 DRPM for the season -- dead last among league centers. To put that in perspective, the next worst DRPM among league centers averaging 30+ minutes is Tristan Thompson (on a team that's 13-39) at +0.42. You can't find a veteran coach in the league who would want to build a team around those two guys with the character/work ethic issues they've shown. And trading an almost unprotected first round pick for this debatable talent upgrade? Presumably the TWolves' owner was desperate to try to salvage the Towns era and avoid another complete rebuild. But if I were their GM and had unfettered discretion to run the team without regard to business considerations, I wouldn't have done it.
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Post by inyourmind on Feb 9, 2020 14:01:47 GMT -5
You could find a ton of teams that would build around Towns. He's amazing and another career the T-Wolves will hold back. The amount of assets that team destroys is comical. Towns is averaging 27/11/4 on 51/41/80 shooting splits. He's ridiculous. Yeah he's bad defensively but the amount of carrying he does on offensive is insane at times. He has no work ethic issues. Wolves fans rave about him. Butler had issues with the Bulls, Wolves, and Sixers at times.
Just think about this. Napier started 22 games for the Wolves and was there 4th/5th leading scorer at times. He was flipped from the Nuggets because he couldn't even see the court. He would have literally been a 3rd stringer and yet Towns played with him as his starting PG.
Russell I agree with but if Towns ever asked out it he'd return a fortune. T-Wolves will find a way to f**k up anything. Like give them LeBron/Leonard and there the one franchise in the league that would mess it up and surround them with d-leaguers.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2020 14:35:06 GMT -5
I think if you polled all 32 GMs and asked them what big they'd want to build around all 32 would say Jokic 1 KAT 2. The Russell argument I get to an extent but he led a team to the playoffs last year and the Nets look much worse without him even with Kyrie. He put up 21/4/7 as the first option on a playoff team. That's pretty good IMO considering his age.
Also, 99% of good offensive PGs are bad defensive PGs. Dame, Steph, Kyrie were all terrible defenders at the same age Russell is now.
Russell/Beasley/KAT is a trio that can be a nightmare offensively. They're 100% better than they were pre deadline. No clue how you can argue that.
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Post by scooter on Feb 9, 2020 14:40:05 GMT -5
Russell I agree with but if Towns ever asked out it he'd return a fortune. And if I was a fantasy GM of the Wolves, that's probably what I would have done instead of spending a lotto pick (probably a high lotto pick) trying to grind toward mediocrity and probably failing. Just blow it up again, trade Towns for a couple of good young players plus some FRPs and cap fodder (I think the Nets might have been a realistic trade candidate with an interest in combining Towns with Irving and Durant next season). Have a lot of picks including your own high lotto picks for multiple seasons, invest in a great scouting staff, and start over with a few good high character players. Maybe they'll prove me wrong -- maybe Beasley will prove to be a starting quality SG and they'll find a few other good players one way or another. But I'm not taking anything away from one game last night and jumping to any conclusions they're currently on a path to being a winning team (and not conveying a top 10 pick to the Warriors).
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Post by scooter on Feb 9, 2020 14:54:07 GMT -5
Russell/Beasley/KAT is a trio that can be a nightmare offensively. They're 100% better than they were pre deadline. No clue how you can argue that. Right now, they'll get the benefit of getting a bunch of teams' D game. And there might be something of a honeymoon -- like other honeymoons, it could go on for a year. If Beasley puts together a strong couple of months of meaningless games, he'll get paid and accomplish his goal. They might be better, but is it going to be better enough to justify what is currently a very bad team trading it's own first round pick with hardly any protections? Based on track record, I'd put my money on the Warriors' front office.
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Post by inyourmind on Feb 9, 2020 15:04:45 GMT -5
Russell I agree with but if Towns ever asked out it he'd return a fortune. And if I was a fantasy GM of the Wolves, that's probably what I would have done instead of spending a lotto pick (probably a high lotto pick) trying to grind toward mediocrity and probably failing. Just blow it up again, trade Towns for a couple of good young players plus some FRPs and cap fodder (I think the Nets might have been a realistic trade candidate with an interest in combining Towns with Irving and Durant next season). Have a lot of picks including your own high lotto picks for multiple seasons, invest in a great scouting staff, and start over with a few good high character players. Maybe they'll prove me wrong -- maybe Beasley will prove to be a starting quality SG and they'll find a few other good players one way or another. But I'm not taking anything away from one game last night and jumping to any conclusions they're currently on a path to being a winning team (and not conveying a top 10 pick to the Warriors). Yeah to each his own. I have no thoughts on the Wolves because at this point how can you predict anything with them. They've consistently managed to screw s**t up forever. It's always safer to bet against them. At this point I think there just making moves because there probably terrified Towns will bail and they'll "blow it up again" and be awful for another decade. My point was that Towns is a really good player who's valued in the NBA. He's losing games because the Wolves surrounded him with garbage. Nuggets fans complain but imagine if we had Napier starting for 22 games instead of Murray and no Monte. Beasley averaged 18 MPG with us and with his flaws was yanked off the court yet with the Wolves he should be a full time starter the rest of the season. Someone like Monte Morris would be one of there best players. Players on this Nuggets team that get trashed in game threads would have Wolves fans pumped. Baseless speculation but I wouldn't be shocked if Towns said something to them. Trading 1st round picks in there situation is a dangerous game. Screams we need immediate help to show him were committed to winning vs drafted another young player that'll take time.
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Post by freakns on Feb 9, 2020 17:03:59 GMT -5
I think if you polled all 32 GMs and asked them what big they'd want to build around all 32 would say Jokic 1 KAT 2. The Russell argument I get to an extent but he led a team to the playoffs last year and the Nets look much worse without him even with Kyrie. He put up 21/4/7 as the first option on a playoff team. That's pretty good IMO considering his age. Also, 99% of good offensive PGs are bad defensive PGs. Dame, Steph, Kyrie were all terrible defenders at the same age Russell is now. Russell/Beasley/KAT is a trio that can be a nightmare offensively. They're 100% better than they were pre deadline. No clue how you can argue that. Everything you said is true. However, there is so much more then that. 1. With whom did KAT or Russell build connection? You could see from day 1 LeBron and AD. Jokic and Murray, took them half a season maybe. Simmons and Tobias. Curry and Klay. Dame and CJ. Harden and Capella... List goes on and on. KAT have that special relationship with no one. Same goes for Russell. 2. How many ball dominant players were actually successful in a system? Harden, LeBron and Westbrook. All three special talents who will share the ball. Russell is not that kind of player. He plays outside of a system. 3. Team will always take over from their best players, they are the one setting a tone. Look at Nuggets. Jokic sharing the ball, everyone is sharing the ball. Suns, when they got Rubio, everyone started passing. GSW, when Curry shares, everyone shares... Same goes for defense. Jokic does play defense, everyone else is trying. Lakers cruising for 3 quarters, then in fourth, when LeBron increase intensity, everyone does... I just have problem imagining KAT or Russell pulling whole team to play defense. You are right when saying Dame or Steph are bad, but they are willing defenders. KAT and Russell aren't(just as Kyrie... and thats why Boston kind of fell apart last season) And list goes on and on... It remains to be seen, but I honestly dont see it. Both guys that came from TWolves, on first impression on Denver, they said brotherhood. You think LeBron comes to Lakers facilities and cry "omg, on ESPN they've said Kawhi is better then me?! but look at my stats!!! so disrespectful!"... it just looks to me that KAT is not a kind of guy who will bring team together. Maybe now with his buddy he become more tolerable, but true leader? I doubt it. Just remember, last season, after game 7 loss, Jokic came out and said "I'm responsible for the loss". He didn't ask for better teammates, or demanded respect, or cry for trade... And there is not a single player on Nuggets that thinks they need better players, or demands ball more, or cant connect with Jokic... I wonder why is that, cause Jokic sure as hell isn't more talented player then KAT
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Post by JB on Feb 9, 2020 17:28:40 GMT -5
remember, we're not comparing them to the Nuggets or the LA teams, we're comparing them to the likes of Memphis, OKC, Portland and NO. you can't honestly think Minnesota is that far behind them talent-wise.
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Post by passtheballquick on Feb 9, 2020 20:00:54 GMT -5
I think TW will be a much better team now. Duo Towns & Wiggins didn't work and they managed to get rid of that max contract in Wiggins. I like DAR a lot. He did some stupid things but I think his ceiling is high. He needs to settle with one team to start showing his real potential. Changing teams every season is not fun. Beasley and Juancho (if healthy) will help them too. They're problem is the rest of the team as they have no depth
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Post by GBG on Feb 9, 2020 20:30:15 GMT -5
I think TW will be a much better team now. Duo Towns & Wiggins didn't work and they managed to get rid of that max contract in Wiggins. I like DAR a lot. He did some stupid things but I think his ceiling is high. He needs to settle with one team to start showing his real potential. Changing teams every season is not fun. Beasley and Juancho (if healthy) will help them too. They're problem is the rest of the team as they have no depth LOL on Juancho helping, but them lacking depth. Uh, Juancho is not an NBA-caliber player either.
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Post by passtheballquick on Feb 9, 2020 21:11:09 GMT -5
I think TW will be a much better team now. Duo Towns & Wiggins didn't work and they managed to get rid of that max contract in Wiggins. I like DAR a lot. He did some stupid things but I think his ceiling is high. He needs to settle with one team to start showing his real potential. Changing teams every season is not fun. Beasley and Juancho (if healthy) will help them too. They're problem is the rest of the team as they have no depth LOL on Juancho helping, but them lacking depth. Uh, Juancho is not an NBA-caliber player either. I guess we will have to wait to see. This could be his last season in nba but he also could be a better player in Minnesota. Playing every game, with more minutes can help him to get into rhythm. The fact that he was very bad in his limited minutes with us doesn't mean he won't be a better player somewhere else BTW coming from Denver with 0 confidence he managed to score 14 pts on 6 shots with zero TO. I don't remember that kind of efficiency with us ever. I know it's only one game but he's got a chance to play now
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2020 10:59:47 GMT -5
According to Matt Moore "The Nuggets were very close to a major trade for a starting caliber player"
So at least we got the standard Tim "we were aggressive but the price was too high" spin this year just like every year before.
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Post by nuggetshipster on Feb 10, 2020 11:05:29 GMT -5
Matt Moore said we didn't want to give up the assets they wanted (probably MPJ)
not sure if that's "close"
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