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Post by scooter on Oct 2, 2024 16:33:50 GMT -5
You were easily fooled. The gameplan for Vance was to be civil, because he’s been an embarrassment since being picked as running mate. He’s not a civil guy, he’s a lying sociopath. Watch the Maddow A block link I provided the other day and relink below. Vance is a Peter Thiel plant to upend democracy in the United States. See who he’s really aligned with, Curtis Yarvin, who says Americans need a dictator and need to get over their dictator phobia. Learn something about Vance before saying he should be the one running for president. To prefer him over Harris is laughably and tragically wrong…. youtu.be/VeVhHNSe9Ks?si=oWNo53oIcbuA8_CMI wasn't fooled at all. All politicians are liars and corrupt. Kamala Harris is a liar, and is corrupt as well. You're not breaking any news here. This is the problem with modern politics. If you are a Democrat you just hate everything Republican and vice versa. In your opinion, if you have conservative beliefs who should you vote for? “Conservative beliefs” sounds like a reasonable POV when used with this level of vagueness and without any regard to any particular place and time. The question I always have is what US government policy agenda in 2025 does this hypothetical “conservative beliefs” person want and which party is closer when one accounts for the entirety of the policy agenda? The date and context are critically important in my estimation because my lifetime has seen an enormous change in the distribution of wealth in the US. If I had been a ridiculously precocious 3 year old, I would very much have understood it for someone to argue for changes in tax law to lower the top marginal rates (91% at the very top when I was born in 1960) based on an argument that continued US economic growth depended on lower rates freeing up capital for investment and domestic spending that would propel the economy, and that the huge WWII expenditures were well behind us, and that the postwar baby boom would provide a large workforce tax base making a continuation of very high marginal rates unnecessary. The government pursued that line of “conservative” thinking and policy, lowering tax rates throughout the 1960’s. But the past 50 years have seen a massive concentration of wealth and a huge growth in the ranks of the working poor while the tax burden on wealthy Americans has been slashed. As far as I can tell, the 2024 Republican Party plan/appeal for the poor and lower middle class is not to adopt government policies to significantly lift them up economically and chip away at the wealth disparity (as the government did with programs like social security and the GI Bill and Medicare during the 1930’s to 60’s), but instead to rely on rhetoric of fearmongering and scapegoating about brown people. I’m just going to leave it at that as I don’t have time for a full some discussion of “conservative” policy. Then there is the fact that Trump has no respect for US law, or historic presidential norms that have served us (and other democracies) well, or international alliances that have served us and our democratic allies well. He’s a scammer and scofflaw whose only real concern is his self-interest. Even those with “conservative beliefs” should recognize that Trump is very bad for the country and that our government’s checks and balances would limit the power of a “more liberal than one might like” but mainstream President. |
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Post by GBG on Oct 2, 2024 17:42:28 GMT -5
Yeah, I know what it means, it means selfish conservatives who want weed legalized nationwide, taxes near zero, and no foreign wars. They are Isolationists. RFK Jr doesn’t fit it precisely since he’s a staunch Israel war supporter, but he’s a conspiracy theory crackpot. Honestly, I don’t think he fits into any box except narcissistic womanizer box, and that probably is why he felt comfortable to endorse Trump. Plus Trump would give him a job in his admin. Libertarians are not isolationists, they are non-interventionists. They support free trade and free travel, not tariffs and immigration crackdowns. They are not conservatives at all. That some conservatives are so embarrassed by their own labels that they try to hide behind the libertarian label now is not an indictment of libertarianism itself but of conservative cowards. Libertarians support free trade. Conservatives are protectionist. Libertarians support free travel. Conservatives hate immigrants. Libertarians support non-interventionism. Conservatives love war. Libertarians support queer rights. Conservatives hate queer people. Libertarians support ending the drug war. Conservatives love the drug war. Libertarians support free speech. Conservatives ban books. Libertarians support separation of church and state. Conservatives support Christo-fascism. Libertarians support ending the death penalty. Conservatives love the death penalty. Libertarians support a demilitarization of the police. Conservatives militarized them to begin with and want more. Libertarians support women making their own health care decisions. Conservatives don't even want them to be able to divorce their abusive husbands, let alone get an abortion or in vitro. Libertarians support cutting taxes and spending drastically across the board. Conservatives support enriching their campaign donors at the expense of everyone else and never actually cutting spending. ever. Your last bullet point is what makes libertarians right wing conservatives in disguise. They want to cut spending, regulations, and taxes to a bare minimum, some even think zero, which has the effect of widening the wealth gap while lowering or eliminating social programs. They believe not just in limited government, as traditional conservatives do, they also believe in no federal statism at all except for bare minimum services. I agree with cutting the MIC defense spending in half over the next decade, which I’m sure libertarians stand for too. I can co-sign many other of the bullet points you listed, but that doesn’t make me a libertarian because they are selfish people who don’t want government helping the most disadvantaged in society, as a means to ameliorate the wealth gap. Libertarians, if left to their own devices with total power, would get rid of Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, federal R&D spending, Pell grants, the Department of Education, the federal minimum wage, the IRS, the EPA, and so on. They want to starve government and make this a more dog eat dog, anarchic society. That’s weird and dangerous. No thanks. |
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Post by GBG on Oct 2, 2024 18:45:30 GMT -5
Pulled from another person I follow. I wholeheartedly agree, and this news is a bit of an October surprise… To my MAGA friends. This statement is based on real evidence in a court of law. Trump not only incited but his agent expressly encouraged the January 6 rioters to attack our Capitol in an effort to disrupt and halt the certification process of a free and fair election. Creating chaos was part of the illicit scheme. He cannot get near the office of the presidency again and all of us who love our flag and everything it stands for cannot in good conscience vote for him. Country first. 🇺🇸 I urge you to reflect on your support for him with this new, damning evidence. abcnews.go.com/US/bombshell-special-counsel-filing-includes-new-allegations-trumps/story?id=114409494 |
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Post by JB on Oct 2, 2024 19:13:20 GMT -5
I urge you not to support the party that is currently allowing messianic fascist Bibi Milekowsky to violently remake the Levant in his image.  that's not Gaza. that's central Beirut. |
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Post by GBG on Oct 2, 2024 19:55:26 GMT -5
Both parties support it, but it’s convenient to point fingers at the party holding the White House. Is any GOP or Dem leadership complaining in Congress?
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pie
Joe Wolf Towel Boy
Posts: 352
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Post by pie on Oct 2, 2024 20:12:13 GMT -5
Both parties support it, but it’s convenient to point fingers at the party holding the White House. Is any GOP or Dem leadership complaining in Congress? There was peace in the Middle East and World -- when Trump was President from 2016-2020. We have data (both qualitative and quantitative to back it up). Its simple. |
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Post by GBG on Oct 2, 2024 20:22:15 GMT -5
Both parties support it, but it’s convenient to point fingers at the party holding the White House. Is any GOP or Dem leadership complaining in Congress? There was peace in the Middle East and World -- when Trump was President from 2016-2020. We have data (both qualitative and quantitative to back it up). Its simple. No there wasn’t. There hasn’t been peace in the Middle East for thousands of years. Certainly not during all my life, and I’m 70. The fuse was burning from 2016-2020, and before and after that date range, that led to 10/7 and to Israel’s response. Israeli fundamentalists were violently occupying the West Bank during that period, displacing Palestinians. They were keeping Gaza an open air prison, just as Israel has done since Hamas took power there in 2006. The 10/7 attack was being planned for probably a decade before they pulled the trigger. Trump being in office wouldn’t have stopped Hamas from their evil acts, nor Netanyahu from his brutal and disproportionate war. In fact, Trump would have egged him on, unlike Biden. You seem really uneducated. |
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Post by jimijam28 on Oct 2, 2024 20:22:57 GMT -5
Both parties support it, but it’s convenient to point fingers at the party holding the White House. Is any GOP or Dem leadership complaining in Congress? There was peace in the Middle East and World -- when Trump was President from 2016-2020. We have data (both qualitative and quantitative to back it up). Its simple. 😂 |
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Post by JB on Oct 3, 2024 7:37:36 GMT -5
can't help but feel this is Genocide's Joe revenge on his party for couping him out of office. this is unprecedented self-destructive insanity by the incumbent party less than 30 days before an election.
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Post by Ring on Oct 3, 2024 7:55:00 GMT -5
Both parties support it, but it’s convenient to point fingers at the party holding the White House. Is any GOP or Dem leadership complaining in Congress? If only there were more than 2 parties  |
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Post by TNF on Oct 3, 2024 9:26:42 GMT -5
JB, as a lifelong Democrat who still plans to vote for Kamala/Walz, I have to say these recent actions, along with Biden's strong and full support of Israel, are political suicide.
(I am responding minimally as I only have my phone, and I am a 99.9% desktop user when discussing anything. My computer is being worked on.)
The funny thing is, I always thought Reagan had one advantage in possible war-time...the fact he was stupid and nuts, and nobody knew what he might do, so he could keep bad guys at bay. Trump has tbis same advantage.
Of course, if the s**t really hit the fan and his bluff was called, be'd be pissing his pants and crying for his mommy. Just another dumb bully.
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Post by JB on Oct 3, 2024 10:01:11 GMT -5
TNF, I appreciate your honestly brother. your fears of another Trump term are not obviously not unfounded but it's important not to be a complete partisan and allow the party running on Not Being Trump to get away with this neocon insanity.
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Post by GBG on Oct 3, 2024 10:30:06 GMT -5
TNF, I appreciate your honestly brother. your fears of another Trump term are not obviously not unfounded but it's important not to be a complete partisan and allow the party running on Not Being Trump to get away with this neocon insanity. I am certain that Trump would be more likely than Biden to give the green light to Netanyahu to conduct a preemptive strike on Iran, namely its nuclear facilities and energy infrastructure including ports. This is being hyped as a good possible action by neocons at The NY Times by the likes of Bret Stephens: www.nytimes.com/2024/10/01/opinion/iran-israel-hezbollah.htmlTNF, his fanboy Bill Maher also likely supports that as he had Bret on recently, and extolled his writing and how he reads every column. Maher also on his podcast told Henry Winkler, aka The Fonz, how he supports Netanyahu and all he does. I hope you don’t patronize his show anymore. JB, there was no coup of Biden. That’s probably something you heard Jimmy Dore say or something. I know Trump has made the same accusation, so you know it’s bullshit disinformation. Biden felt pressure, no doubt, but voluntarily did the right thing to allow his handpicked VP, the younger and more energetic Harris, to prosecute the case against Trump this fall, and I think it will work. |
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Post by JB on Oct 3, 2024 10:42:35 GMT -5
Trump would probably ramp up sanctions and allow the IDF to run rampant in the West Bank but he would absolutely not give Bibi Miliekowsky the green light to attack Iran as it would send the world economies into a tailspin, as I and now the Bank of England are warning.
It's obvious the individuals currently running policy see their proxy state gaining hegemonic dominance over the entire middle east as more important than any domestic concern. Trump is the opposite, he will allow the apartheid state to commit any atrocities they like so long as it doesn't negatively effect his bottom line.
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Post by JB on Oct 3, 2024 11:19:57 GMT -5
this is all setting the stage for future conflict.
BRICS is proposing an alternate currency to replace the dollar supremacy which will essentially end the US empire, and the US is showing the world what it's willing to do to stop that from happening.
very dark days ahead.
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Post by GBG on Oct 3, 2024 11:51:09 GMT -5
this is all setting the stage for future conflict. BRICS is proposing an alternate currency to replace the dollar supremacy which will essentially end the US empire, and the US is showing the world what it's willing to do to stop that from happening. very dark days ahead. Especially if “Trump the Deranged” wins. More than ever, we need prudent sanity in the White House. BTW, BRICs currency is the RMB, and it’s nowhere close to unseating the USD. |
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Post by JB on Oct 3, 2024 11:51:29 GMT -5
God help us all.
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Post by jimijam28 on Oct 3, 2024 15:06:17 GMT -5
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Post by JB on Oct 3, 2024 16:13:36 GMT -5
Rula agrees with my conspiracy theory re Genocide Joe
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Post by GBG on Oct 3, 2024 16:18:37 GMT -5
Nonsense. Joe wants Harris to win. He picked her for VP, picked her as his successor nominee rather than open the process to a mini-primary at an open convention, and came back from being VP under Obama to prevent Trump from having second term. “Restoring the soul of America” as he put it. JB, you will believe any outlandish thing as long as it confirms your predispositions. If you listen closely, this conversation doesn’t say there is a conspiracy theory, certainly not YOUR conspiracy theory. Mehdi said Joe might be undermining Kamala UNWITTINGLY. Rula didn’t disagree.
Also, did you notice he answered a question about Jill Stein (did you ask it?) and scoffed at her as not viable.
I’m a Mehdi Hassan fan, btw, and there is no question he wants Harris as president and will vote for her. You should too.
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