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Post by nuggetshipster on Mar 19, 2017 20:28:12 GMT -5
all evidence points to the oposite tho. that jokic would rot like every other rookie not named Ty Lawson (only because Karl has a hard on for Tar Heels)
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Post by GBG on Mar 19, 2017 20:28:23 GMT -5
Well Malone wasn't really playing Jokic much at the start. The guy is too much of a talent to ignore. Karl would 100% definitely play the vets though. I don't think he'd play Barton since he hates those type of players. This is correct. Karl hated guys who played for themselves the way Swaggy B does.
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Post by nuggetshipster on Mar 19, 2017 20:33:36 GMT -5
there wasnt many or any experts who saw the insane talent in Jokic before he really broke out. Us as fans dont really count considering how biased and desperate for positive signs we are. even a broken clock is right twice a day
so you all believe that Karl, despite no other coach or expert seeing it, will see the amazing talent in Jokic and play him despite all the years of evidence that proved his dislike of rookies? Faried would have never gotten a real chance had Nene gotten injured.
i dont see the logic.. karl would still be working if he was this much better than EVERYONE else at talent evaluating.
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Post by brick2 on Mar 19, 2017 20:37:51 GMT -5
What changes did they make between last years playoffs and the beginning of the season? Form goes up and down, especially for a jump shooting team like Portland. Been like this ever since LMA left, but they are/were still a f***ing good team. And more than good enough to win 40 f***ing games Come on I completely understand that teams have ups and downs. They're hot right now and probably would be with or without Nurk. But that doesn't change the fact that Nurk made them better. Aside from his whiny, bitchy attitude problems, he's a better player on the court than Plumlee, especially on the defensive side. You add a player who's a better player than the one you lost, you tend to get better. You don't honestly believe Plum's the better player on the court do you? No but sometimes fit and chemistry matter more.
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Post by GBG on Mar 19, 2017 20:39:25 GMT -5
Let's put it this way: I like our chances with this roster getting to the playoffs much more with Karl than with Malone. He had a special bond with three guys still here back in the 2013 year of "teamness". And yeah, he'd have loved Jokic because he embodies teamness with his selfless attitude and skills.
If Kosta Koufos can be an 82-game starter for Karl in the 2013 season, I have no doubt he'd have used Jokic a LOT.
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Post by brick2 on Mar 19, 2017 20:43:44 GMT -5
Now why the f**k do you think adding an decent first round pick is evidence of TC's stupidity instead of Nurkic's shitty trade value? He was literally a negative asset, we had to throw in a pick to get rid of him. For a player everyone knew Portland wasnt gonna extend in the summer Breaking news! TC isnt f***ing retarded Easily could have traded Nurk for a 2nd round pick and we both know for a fact that's the case. You can't tell me that 29 other teams wouldn't be willing to trade a 2nd round pick for a 22 year old center with tons of potential. His value was s**t but some team would make that deal. But hey...we wanted a backup C that is going to make 17-18 M a year and cut into Jokic's minutes. And BTW I have loved Plumlee lately. He's been fantastic. But let's not make it sound like TC had a gun forced to his head and had to trade him and a 1st to Portland. He chose that deal. Just like how he chose to not trade Gallo or Chandler at the deadline. The deals were there. I think it'll take until the summer to judge this, since the Nugs wanted Plumlee. A 2nd rounder is usually shite but they got a guy who can back up Jokic and play alongside him for short stretches. He'd have made bank as a FA but maybe the Nugs can get him to re-sign for a reasonable deal once he's familiar with the environment. If we have to overpay him or he bolts, you'll be absolutely right, but right now I'd say that I'd take Plumlee over a 2nd rounder.
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Post by brick2 on Mar 19, 2017 20:46:10 GMT -5
Did anybody pick us too make the playoffs?? nadie guey
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Post by jimijam28 on Mar 19, 2017 20:47:01 GMT -5
can we just rename this site to- NT- NURK TALK
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Post by brick2 on Mar 19, 2017 20:52:42 GMT -5
And you have totally unrealistic ideas about what a coach can do. You are the kind of guy that would never be happy with any coach (unless it was Pop) Did you like Karl? Yes, I liked Karl and thought he shouldn't have been fired after winning COY. It was a bush league move by Josh, IMO. You are literally the only poster on this forum who is happy with Malone this season. Consider the possibility that the consensus of this message board just might be right. No I think Malone is getting a bunch of undeserved s**t. He's made some mistakes but he's also progressed. Firing a coach who has potential usually just sets a team back so I wouldn't want to see him go just yet. And I liked Karl and it made me the target of an insane amount of flak from this board. I had to withdraw for a while. Coaches, like players, are human. Capable of adapting, capable of failing, capable of improving. Before we declare Malone a lost cause maybe he deserves a little more time.
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Post by jimijam28 on Mar 19, 2017 21:01:17 GMT -5
Yes, I liked Karl and thought he shouldn't have been fired after winning COY. It was a bush league move by Josh, IMO. You are literally the only poster on this forum who is happy with Malone this season. Consider the possibility that the consensus of this message board just might be right. No I think Malone is getting a bunch of undeserved s**t. He's made some mistakes but he's also progressed. Firing a coach who has potential usually just sets a team back so I wouldn't want to see him go just yet. And I liked Karl and it made me the target of an insane amount of flak from this board. I had to withdraw for a while. Coaches, like players, are human. Capable of adapting, capable of failing, capable of improving. Before we declare Malone a lost cause maybe he deserves a little more time. hmmm who gave you flak for karl
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Post by nuggetshipster on Mar 19, 2017 21:02:14 GMT -5
Let's put it this way: I like our chances with this roster getting to the playoffs much more with Karl than with Malone. He had a special bond with three guys still here back in the 2013 year of "teamness". And yeah, he'd have loved Jokic because he embodies teamness with his selfless attitude and skills. If Kosta Koufos can be an 82-game starter for Karl in the 2013 season, I have no doubt he'd have used Jokic a LOT. Jokic wouldnt have gotten a single tripple double under Karl's random dribble penetration offense
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Post by nuggetshipster on Mar 19, 2017 21:07:30 GMT -5
Funny how the roles are reversed tho, i used to complain about Karl so much and anyone defending him
So this is really me, a pot calling a kettle black
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Post by brick2 on Mar 19, 2017 21:11:19 GMT -5
No I think Malone is getting a bunch of undeserved s**t. He's made some mistakes but he's also progressed. Firing a coach who has potential usually just sets a team back so I wouldn't want to see him go just yet. And I liked Karl and it made me the target of an insane amount of flak from this board. I had to withdraw for a while. Coaches, like players, are human. Capable of adapting, capable of failing, capable of improving. Before we declare Malone a lost cause maybe he deserves a little more time. hmmm who gave you flak for karl you, cabron
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Post by brick2 on Mar 19, 2017 21:13:39 GMT -5
Let's put it this way: I like our chances with this roster getting to the playoffs much more with Karl than with Malone. He had a special bond with three guys still here back in the 2013 year of "teamness". And yeah, he'd have loved Jokic because he embodies teamness with his selfless attitude and skills. If Kosta Koufos can be an 82-game starter for Karl in the 2013 season, I have no doubt he'd have used Jokic a LOT. Jokic wouldnt have gotten a single tripple double under Karl's random dribble penetration offense One thing Karl was good at was figuring out how to use the players he had. That was probably his greatest strength actually. So I think he would have figured out how to use Jokic. He also may have built the system around Nurkic. But he wouldn't have let either of those guys rot on the bench.
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Post by jimijam28 on Mar 19, 2017 21:24:15 GMT -5
jokic and nurk would have not play under karl- #1 karl small ball fan.
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Post by inyourmind on Mar 19, 2017 21:36:20 GMT -5
I also think Karl would have stolen a few wins late in games, and not blown nearly as many fourth quarter leads as Malone has done. Love or hate Karl, that guy simply knew how to win with Denver, no matter the roster, in the regular season. You also think Karl would have given a 41st pick any real minutes? Serious question Karl would have went nuts for Jokic. Karl hated laziness, guys who didn't play defense, and stupid players. He loved ball movement. Mudiay would have been forgotten under Karl. Nurkic's defense would have got him on the floor. Jokic? That basketball IQ would have made Karl play him. Murray's effort on the defensive side of the ball would have got him minutes. It was a flaw for Karl. Guys like Najera, Anthony Carter, LK who played smart basketball were always in favor and guys like J.R/Melo/Kenyon who were better he disliked. It's like Iverson. Karl loved Iverson because of his heart and energy. I was fine with Karl getting fired. IMO the game passed him by. He had a long stretch with us and couldn't get over the hump. Both sides needed a change. He was an amazing coach, HOFer, would have rings if MJ didn't exist. Near the end tho he was making mistakes. He could always string together regular season wins, would grab more than Malone, but come playoff time he couldn't adjust. His last few years in Denver really hurt his rep, I mean his last few years in the league. He got too egotistical. Post Melo I hated Karl because he didn't want a superstar. Jokic's personality would have fit. Karl always had that comment why can't we have a top 15 or whatever it was at every position and I just never believed in that. Karl also would never tank and Denver needed to rebuild and start over. I don't even like Karl. Malone has been inept. Karl was hard headed. For example I don't think Karl makes the switch and admits his mistakes like Malone did however think he's a better coach that would have had Jokic playing big minutes this season outta the gates. Also think he doesn't bench Nurkic, and someone like Murray gets better treatment. Murray would have got the Lawson role vs the up and down rollercoaster.
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Post by inyourmind on Mar 19, 2017 21:45:08 GMT -5
there wasnt many or any experts who saw the insane talent in Jokic before he really broke out. Us as fans dont really count considering how biased and desperate for positive signs we are. even a broken clock is right twice a day so you all believe that Karl, despite no other coach or expert seeing it, will see the amazing talent in Jokic and play him despite all the years of evidence that proved his dislike of rookies? Faried would have never gotten a real chance had Nene gotten injured. i dont see the logic.. karl would still be working if he was this much better than EVERYONE else at talent evaluating. Except Jokic went off in the Olympics. Finished 3rd in rookie voting. He had flashes in his rookie season that at the very least screamed lets see what we have. NBA teams have accepted analytics and every franchise has guys in the FO that looks at that stuff. Jokic's advanced stats as a rookie were absurd. Even right now, it's why I don't give Jokic s**t. His numbers are ridiculous. To the point where realistically they'll need to come down abit because if they don't than he'll be an MVP talent and while I certainly think that's possible it's also pretty unlikely Jokic wins an MVP or finishes top 3. Very few coaches treat Jokic like Malone did. Same with Nurkic but to a far lesser extent. I mean Jokic saved our season. Malone came dangerous close to massively messing up. Kudo's to him for fixing his mistake, he still made that mistake tho. Alot of people saw it post draft. Jokic drank 3 litres of coca cola a day. Apparently at all the draft stuff Jokic was really overweight and his body was just brutal which is why he fell so hard. TC talked about it. I refuse to believe you couldn't see his talent in practice. That fans could see he deserved minutes, a media member like Zach Lowe was questioning Malone not playing Jokic, but NBA coaches wouldn't have been able to see it. He had his rookie year, offseason, Olympics, dropped 23/17 his second game of this year, followed that game with going at the Raptors lighting them up and got yanked and only saw like 20 minutes. Alot of people saw it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2017 21:49:38 GMT -5
I 100% would rather have Malone than Karl. In 3-4 years we'll all love Malone because we'll be a 55+ win team and we'll be contending. No team has better young talent than us except maybe the Sixers. But is that due to Malone or due to the talent?
Jokic. Harris. Murray. Juancho. Mudiay. Beasley. 2017 1st round pick (probably 12-15 range) Sixers - Embiid, Simmons, Saric, 2017 first
I'd take us over everyone including the Sixers due to Simmons/Embiids health issues.
One thing that bothered me too about Malone is in his post game press conference last night the only negative things he pointed out were Juancho/Murray being rookies and making rookie mistakes in the 4th quarter. Just like how he called out Jokic. Yet Barton plays like s**t and costs us 10+ games this year and Malone draws plays up for him at the end of games. Juancho played great last night and made a few rookie mistakes. Murray made mistakes (some were not his fault like the turnover where Faried/Jokic were standing on top of each other in the paint) but everyone forgets he hit a big 3 and also found Jameer for a wide open 3 late that cut the game down to 2. So he made mistakes but he also made huge plays. Barton made mistakes last night and did literally nothing positive except hit his first 3. He was absolute s**t last night, like he has been since February. But he'll continue to get huge minutes which drives me insane.
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Post by duh88 on Mar 19, 2017 23:36:37 GMT -5
No one is more sick over the Nurkic trade than I am, but a few things:
1. Don't fire TC: TC is a damn good GM. The next euro player whose flying under the radar will surely be identified by TC. Let's not cut our nose to spite our face - keep TC.
2. Keep Malone: I really can't believe I'm saying this, despite the terrible job that was done on Nurk and Mudiay, but....
You gotta give Malone credit for:
A. Masterminding the Jokic offense B. Developing a cadre of 3 point shooters (about every player on our team can competently shoot the 3) C. We're making our free throws D. The defense is getting better
I was Malone's first and most fierce antagonist. But I'm on board now - I want to see what Malone can get out of this roster going forward.
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Post by jimijam28 on Mar 20, 2017 0:13:52 GMT -5
#1 COY Malone fan
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