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Post by famicommander on Oct 23, 2024 22:49:42 GMT -5
Grizz get the win, Huff finishes the game with Ja, Bane, Smart, and Aldama.
Huff's debut statline:
13 points, 5 rebounds, 1 assist, 0 steals, 2 blocks, 0 turnovers, 2 fouls, 4/6 FG, 3/5 3PT, 2/2 FT, +2 in 22 minutes
Happy for him.
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Post by scooter on Oct 24, 2024 0:28:26 GMT -5
We went from 6 playable NBA guards to 4, and 3 of them were hurt last year. It's not complicated. How many “playable NBA guards” not named Holiday, White and/or Pritchard do the Celtics have? Answer is none; but they have enough capable playmakers overall. Our center was 2nd in the NBA in assists last season. |
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Post by famicommander on Oct 24, 2024 0:46:24 GMT -5
We went from 6 playable NBA guards to 4, and 3 of them were hurt last year. It's not complicated. How many “playable NBA guards” not named Holiday, White and/or Pritchard do the Celtics have? Answer is none; but they have enough capable playmakers overall. Our center was 2nd in the NBA in assists last season. Jaylen Brown is a true wing. He's a shooting guard who plays a lot of small forward because the Celtics start two point guards. And again, there is much more to playing guard than just tracking the number of assists. Ball handling, guarding other guards, shooting, communication and leadership. I don't have to explain to you the difference in proven NBA reliability between Holiday, White, Pritchard, and Brown versus Murray, old Russ, Strawther, and Braun. I also shouldn't have to explain to you that if Holiday and White missed a significant chunk of games at the same time (like Murray and Strawther did last year), it would hurt Boston significantly. Last year all four of those Boston guards played at least 69 games and that was with Boston load managing them significantly because they had such a big lead in the East. Guard depth was a gigantic issue for us last year and we approached the offseason like the goal was to get less guard depth. It just makes no sense. We are getting 36 year old Russ, not 26 year old Russ. We're all excited for Strawther, myself included, but he had an epic preseason last year and then had the rookie regular season that we saw. You can't just pencil him in as a quality rotation guy right now, and we can't assume he'll be healthy all year either. Jamal's health led to Reggie freaking Jackson having 82 games and 26 starts last year. Russell Wesbrook had surgery during the season last year. Strawther missed about 6 weeks last year. These are actual concerns based on recent history. CB has been an ironman so far, and I'm thankful for that at least, but we can't expect him to play in 96% of all regular season games for his whole damn career. |
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Post by inyourmind on Oct 24, 2024 1:04:52 GMT -5
How many “playable NBA guards” not named Holiday, White and/or Pritchard do the Celtics have? Answer is none; but they have enough capable playmakers overall. Our center was 2nd in the NBA in assists last season. I don't have to explain to you the difference in proven NBA reliability between Holiday, White, Pritchard, and Brown versus Murray, old Russ, Strawther, and Braun. This is the criticism I get and I fully believe in CB/Strawther. To me that's where the FO has took the risk. It's not the deep bench spots. If CB doesn't thrive as a starter, Westbrook isn't a good fit, and Strawther doesn't match the high expectations we all have than the Nuggets are in trouble. You throw in Watson who already had his minutes cut in the playoffs last year and the Nuggets bench does come with some legitimate risk even if your high on the players. Simply being biased to ignore that. I think Strawther is going to have a big year but it's completely possible he doesn't and at that point we don't need a 10th-15th man ... we need actual bench help. As much as Westbrook's mentality was needed after how soft this team was last season we probably could have used a much more stable backup PG. Instead of keeping CG in favor of Pickett or any of these deep bench players the Nuggets needed to add one more legitimate rotation piece. With Jokic I think you can get away with that player playing any of the 1-3. Holliday would have been nice insurance if Watson doesn't progress. I don't get the deep bench stuff at all. It wasn't a gigantic issue for us at all last year. The Nuggets literally would have been the 1 seed if they didn't choke away a gigantic lead late in the season. Just like for all the talk about wear and tear and running players into the ground the Nuggets simply needed to trade baskets for 5 minutes and they were headed to the WCF. Both of those things came at the hands of the starters. If the Nuggets get really banged up in the regular season the starters/bench will need to carry. Just like if we had a solid 3rd string PG. If it happens in the playoffs than we weren't winning a ring unless the top players go nuts. Same with Boston. Boston isn't accomplishing anything without Holiday/White in the playoffs and in the regular season the 3rd string replacement would be the 10th reason why their still winning/losing games. Nuggets went high risk/high reward IMO. If Stawther/CB/Watson/Westbrook all fit than this team is absolutely lethal if healthy. If the young guns don't progress and the lack of shooting is to much to overcome than your fucked. |
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Post by rock on Oct 24, 2024 2:07:45 GMT -5
Grizz get the win, Huff finishes the game with Ja, Bane, Smart, and Aldama. Huff's debut statline: 13 points, 5 rebounds, 1 assist, 0 steals, 2 blocks, 0 turnovers, 2 fouls, 4/6 FG, 3/5 3PT, 2/2 FT, +2 in 22 minutes Happy for him. Dude looked absolutely unplayable last year. Guess he can play |
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Post by famicommander on Oct 24, 2024 2:14:58 GMT -5
Grizz get the win, Huff finishes the game with Ja, Bane, Smart, and Aldama. Huff's debut statline: 13 points, 5 rebounds, 1 assist, 0 steals, 2 blocks, 0 turnovers, 2 fouls, 4/6 FG, 3/5 3PT, 2/2 FT, +2 in 22 minutes Happy for him. Dude looked absolutely unplayable last year. Guess he can play The only two times he played 5 minutes in a game last year he was +12 in a 13 point loss and -3 in a 38 point loss. Hard to judge a guy based on 44 seconds here, 1:29 there, 2:19 here all in garbage time. If you'll check my posts from last year you'll see me say from watching him in the G-League that I fully believed he had the shooting and defense to be a roster guy. What holds him back are Zeke hands (not nearly as bad, but similar issues). He doesn't rebound as well as a guy who is nearly 7 foot 2 barefoot should, and his ball skills aren't great. He has good handles for a man his size but tracking rebounds, grabbing hold of them, catching and throwing passes are a challenge. But he can at least finish at the rim. |
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Post by nuggetshipster on Oct 24, 2024 4:36:50 GMT -5
If the NBA game is going to be teams taking 60 3s on a nightly basis going forward...that's just a shitty viewing experience. Sucks. Pretty sure Sticky been talking about this for a long time now |
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Post by nuggetshipster on Oct 24, 2024 4:39:34 GMT -5
Yeah, I just don't think that matters. That's the difference in maybe 1-2 losses in a season. There is no team in the NBA that would be successful if 3 of their top 4 guards got injured. Guards on the NBA Champion Boston Celtics last year Jrue Holiday, Derrick White, Jaylen Brown, Payton Prichard, Jaden Springer, Dalanton Banton, JD Davison. 1-2 losses made a HUGE difference last season. 1 fewer loss last year and we're the 1 seed; 1 more loss and we're the 3 seed. That's a substantial difference right there. And I'm not saying 3 guys are going to get injured at once. Any one of them getting injured at any point will result in another experiment with Pickett or CB trying to run the second unit. Or trying to run a 6'8" forward as a two guard. Two of them getting injured means we have to make an emergency roster move in the middle of the year and bring in someone who doesn't know our players or system. You're in denial if you think Reggie being forced to limp to the finish line after 82 regular season and 26 starts games didn't make a difference last year. You're in denial if you think KCP wouldn't have taken some extra games off and been more fresh in the playoffs if he didn't have to press down the stretch for playoff seeding. You're in denial if you think Strawther, Westbrook, and Braun are going to miss a combined 6 games this year like Braun, Reggie, and KCP did last year. The fact that you said we "thrived" with Rivers and Facu is some serious selective memory. We made the playoffs off the singular greatness of Nikola Jokic, yes, but those games were excruciating to watch. We severely lacked ball handling, perimeter defense, and three point shooting. Great post |
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Post by nuggetshipster on Oct 24, 2024 4:41:13 GMT -5
And you could argue those 1-2 losses should be made up for by your starters and bench. Nuggets were completely healthy for that Spurs game and choked away a big lead to one of the worst teams in the league. If Strawther/CB/Watson are all hits this year it won't matter. Nuggets are in championship or bust mode at this point. Build the deepest 1-10 possible. Yeah, the 10th-15th guys basically have no impact on winning or losing. They're a luxury. If Murray/MPJ stay healthy and have good seasons the Nuggets will be a 1 seed. 2 at worst. If they both struggle or get hurt the Nuggets will be in the 5-7 range. Simple as that. This is absolutely not true tho. Just because you can still win with trash 10-15 does not mean they can have no impact. Ridicilous take |
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Post by duh88 on Oct 24, 2024 5:44:44 GMT -5
I always loved Jay Huff's game. I wanted to keep him over DeAndre. Sigh.
Anyways - happy for him! He's clearly worked hard and its paying off.
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Post by Ring on Oct 24, 2024 7:26:39 GMT -5
Yeah, the 10th-15th guys basically have no impact on winning or losing. They're a luxury. If Murray/MPJ stay healthy and have good seasons the Nuggets will be a 1 seed. 2 at worst. If they both struggle or get hurt the Nuggets will be in the 5-7 range. Simple as that. This is absolutely not true tho. Just because you can still win with trash 10-15 does not mean they can have no impact. Ridicilous take They very rarely do though. Most Championship teams are the ones that are most healthy and that means those guys don't even play. Again, what guys on the deep bench on the Celtics or the Champion Nuggets played roles in them winning a Championship? |
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Post by somborshuffle on Oct 24, 2024 8:16:28 GMT -5
This is absolutely not true tho. Just because you can still win with trash 10-15 does not mean they can have no impact. Ridicilous take They very rarely do though. Most Championship teams are the ones that are most healthy and that means those guys don't even play. Again, what guys on the deep bench on the Celtics or the Champion Nuggets played roles in them winning a Championship? If those guys are half decent then Jokic doesn't have to come back into games after the bench consistently blows double digit leads. It's why we get so few blow out wins. It'd be great if Jokic and Jamal could have more of those games where they only have to play 25mins. I think being in the West magnifies this issue because it's just so much tougher than the East where there are easy wins everywhere. |
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Post by TNF on Oct 24, 2024 8:21:59 GMT -5
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Post by Ring on Oct 24, 2024 9:41:25 GMT -5
They very rarely do though. Most Championship teams are the ones that are most healthy and that means those guys don't even play. Again, what guys on the deep bench on the Celtics or the Champion Nuggets played roles in them winning a Championship? If those guys are half decent then Jokic doesn't have to come back into games after the bench consistently blows double digit leads. It's why we get so few blow out wins. It'd be great if Jokic and Jamal could have more of those games where they only have to play 25mins. I think being in the West magnifies this issue because it's just so much tougher than the East where there are easy wins everywhere. A) That's much more on the 6-10 guys than it is the 11-15. It's not like those guys are playing regular minutes. They play in garbage time so there's never a spot where they'd blow a lead big enough where the starters would have to come back in. If you're up 17 to start the 4Q and the bench can't extend that lead, that's on the bench...not on the guys that aren't playing. B) The Nuggets could be up 30 to start the 4Q and Malone is still going to play his starters. That's how he coaches. C) The Nuggets won 12 games by 17+ last year. That's a lot of blowouts. |
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Post by scooter on Oct 24, 2024 10:07:20 GMT -5
How many “playable NBA guards” not named Holiday, White and/or Pritchard do the Celtics have? Answer is none; but they have enough capable playmakers overall. Our center was 2nd in the NBA in assists last season. Jaylen Brown is a true wing. Is Brown a right wing or a left wing? What the hell is “wing” in basketball? OK fine, I suppose it’s a multi-skilled guy who can play multiple positions because he is multi-skilled. Brown isn’t really. According to Cleaning the Glass Brown played 74% of his minutes at forward last season and 69% the season before. Brad Stevens and Joe Mazzula had seen the Celtics get bounced early in the playoffs by lower seeded opponents multiple times in large part because Brown had been miscast as a guard and was a turnover machine when he had guard responsibilities to handle and pass. He’s a lousy offensive player in general for a guy considered a “star player” (and getting paid like a superstar) but I’ll grant that he’s a very good defender who can defend multiple positions and works well in the Celtics’ switch heavy defensive system. The Celtics are also a top heavy team without much deep bench talent. Sure most of their main guys have been durable, but aside from Holiday (who is older now at 34) there is no track record of those guys playing a full NBA season after playing in the Finals in June. In any event, if one is going to count non-guards in your “add to the guard ranks” explanation because they can be trusted to handle the ball and pass, then Watson and Gordon and Saric (to a lesser extent) and Jokic need to be added to the ranks of “playable NBA guards.” The Nuggets may also think that Alexander is “playable” and before we get into game limitations, let’s acknowledge that he can be converted to a roster contract during the season if the team thinks he’s good and they have time to figure out the roster spot. Since the Nuggets have Jokic, they don’t need as many old-school PGs. They do need to be able to guard perimeter players and we’ll see how that goes. Personally, I’m more concerned about shooting and floor spacing than I am about having enough guards to pound the ball. |
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Post by Ring on Oct 24, 2024 10:10:09 GMT -5
Jaylen Brown is a true wing. Is Brown a right wing or a left wing? What the hell is “wing” in basketball? OK fine, I suppose it’s a multi-skilled guy who can play multiple positions because he is multi-skilled. Brown isn’t really. According to Cleaning the Glass Brown played 74% of his minutes at forward last season and 69% the season before. Brad Stevens and Joe Mazzula had seen the Celtics get bounced early in the playoffs by lower seeded opponents multiple times in large part because Brown had been miscast as a guard and was a turnover machine when he had guard responsibilities to handle and pass. He’s a lousy offensive player in general for a guy considered a “star player” (and getting paid like a superstar) but I’ll grant that he’s a very good defender who can defend multiple positions and works well in the Celtics’ switch heavy defensive system. The Celtics are also a top heavy team without much deep bench talent. Sure most of their main guys have been durable, but aside from Holiday (who is older now at 34) there is no track record of those guys playing a full NBA season after playing in the Finals in June. In any event, if one is going to count non-guards in your “add to the guard ranks” explanation because they can be trusted to handle the ball and pass, then Watson and Gordon and Saric (to a lesser extent) and Jokic need to be added to the ranks of “playable NBA guards.” The Nuggets may also think that Alexander is “playable” and before we get into game limitations, let’s acknowledge that he can be converted to a roster contract during the season if the team thinks he’s good and they have time to figure out the roster spot. Since the Nuggets have Jokic, they don’t need as many old-school PGs. They do need to be able to guard perimeter players and we’ll see how that goes. Personally, I’m more concerned about shooting and floor spacing than I am about having enough guards to pound the ball. The only way the spacing becomes an issue is if one of the shooters go down. You have to ensure that 2 of Murray/MPJ/Strawther are on the floor at all times, which obviously can be quite a big challenge. |
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Post by Dante on Oct 24, 2024 19:21:20 GMT -5
I do not understand this "lack of guards" discussion taking so much heat here for entire offseason when if you look closely, this team in the last 6-8 years was always deficient at guard depth and had PF's for export.
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Post by famicommander on Oct 24, 2024 19:38:11 GMT -5
I do not understand this "lack of guards" discussion taking so much heat here for entire offseason when if you look closely, this team in the last 6-8 years was always deficient at guard depth and had PF's for export. Guard depth the one year we actually won the championship: Murray, KCP, Brown, Braun, Hyland-->Jackson, Smith The last guard on our bench, Ish, ended up playing in 43 games that year at almost 10 minutes per, so not just in garbage time. Bones and Reggie combined for 48 games. We didn't need them in the playoffs (Reggie contributed a little bit in 1 game, Ish only in garbage time) but the guard depth during the season absolutely was needed. We had six guards (treating Bones/Reggie's spot as one) and they all contributed meaningfully in the regular season. |
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Post by GBG on Oct 24, 2024 19:50:17 GMT -5
I do not understand this "lack of guards" discussion taking so much heat here for entire offseason when if you look closely, this team in the last 6-8 years was always deficient at guard depth and had PF's for export. We need three things in abundance: 1) ball handling, 2) perimeter defense, and 3) 3-point shooting. We have the D for the most part, but not sure we have the handles and especially 3PT shooting depth. We only have four above average 3 PT shooters, in theory: MPJ, Murray, Saric, and Strawther. The last name is hardly proven over a full season. Braun is average from distance, and Jokic is average from distance. The rest are below average guys. Just so happens that 3 point shooters with handles who can defend quick perimeter shooters are guards. |
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Post by Dante on Oct 24, 2024 20:01:00 GMT -5
Guys. I do understand that "lack of playable guards" is a problem. But my question was based on "Are you not used to this situation over the last 6-8 years"?
Remember the bubble when we rolled out 5 big man lineup? Plumdog,Jokic,Bol Bol, Grant, Millsap?
For some reason our front office prefer to have bunch of PF/Bigs over guards/wings. So, i am kinda used to it...Crying here for entire offseason will not change that picture.
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