pie
Joe Wolf Towel Boy
Posts: 352
|
Post by pie on Aug 22, 2024 7:59:14 GMT -5
|
|
pie
Joe Wolf Towel Boy
Posts: 352
|
Post by pie on Aug 22, 2024 7:59:52 GMT -5
Dear Josh,
Jamal Murray is rarely healthy. Do us all a favor and TRADE HIM. Nikola Jokic will not be in his prime forever.
Sincerely,
Denver Nuggets fans
|
|
|
|
Post by scooter on Aug 22, 2024 17:14:03 GMT -5
Dear Josh, Jamal Murray is rarely healthy. Do us all a favor and TRADE HIM. Nikola Jokic will not be in his prime forever. Sincerely, Denver Nuggets fans Aside from the time he missed for his ACL injury, Murray has been durable, has played a lot of games, and has shouldered a big workload. He was durable before that injury, and has been durable since. In the past 2 seasons, he’s played more NBA games (156) than most high profile “on ball” players, including Booker, Lillard, Irving, George, Morant, the Ball brothers, Herro, LaVine, Mitchell, Halliburton, Maxey, Curry, Beal, Young, Harden, Fox and most others. A very small number of scoring/playmaking guards — Edwards, Brunson, Doncic (who played 2 more games than Murray over 2 years and also wasn’t very healthy in the 2024 playoffs) — have been more durable recently. I often get the impression that Nuggets’ fans don’t pay much attention to the rest of the NBA and have mythic ideas about what is going on with other teams and non-Nuggets players. It’s a physically punishing sport and most players battle injuries. There are a few Ironmen who have avoided significant injury and consistently play a lot of games but those guys are rare exceptions. The rule is that NBA players get hurt from time to time. Murray was actually very good last season but after a short offseason and a big workload in the regular season, he wore down and didn’t have much left for the playoffs. He needs to take time and get treatment and get healthier. Hopefully, Westbrook will be a better backup PG and that will enable the team to do a better job of managing Murray’s workload and give him a better chance to stay reasonably healthy. |
|
|
|
Post by LotharBraunBrownBryant on Aug 22, 2024 17:20:04 GMT -5
Dear Josh, Jamal Murray is rarely healthy. Do us all a favor and TRADE HIM. Nikola Jokic will not be in his prime forever. Sincerely, Denver Nuggets fans dear pie, please do not pretend to speak for Denver Nuggets fans. Sincerely, the substantial portion of the Denver Nuggets fan base that doesn't overreact the way you do |
|
|
|
Post by JB on Aug 22, 2024 18:53:19 GMT -5
it's probably closer to 50/50
|
|
|
|
Post by famicommander on Aug 22, 2024 19:57:19 GMT -5
Josh Kroenke isn't going anywhere. The very notion is utter delusion. His parents are worth a collective ~20 billion dollars and he's being groomed to take over at least the sports part of the empire, if not the entire thing (his sister seems to be more interested in artistic and philanthropic ventures).
At some point in the future Josh will be the controlling owner of:
Arsenal FC (EPL)
Arsenal WFC (WSL)
Colorado Avalanche (NHL)
Colorado Mammoth (NLL)
Colorado Rapids (MLS)
Denver Nuggets (NBA)
Los Angeles Rams (NFL)
And there's still every bit the chance that Stan adds more teams to his collection before he passes them down. Nobody would be shocked at all if he bought a WNBA, NWSL, AHL, G-League, or PLL team (right now the PLL is single-entity ownership but they want to eventually sell to local owners). Even an MLB team wouldn't be hugely shocking.
|
|
|
|
Post by nuggetshipster on Aug 23, 2024 7:16:58 GMT -5
Dear Josh, Jamal Murray is rarely healthy. Do us all a favor and TRADE HIM. Nikola Jokic will not be in his prime forever. Sincerely, Denver Nuggets fans Aside from the time he missed for his ACL injury, Murray has been durable, has played a lot of games, and has shouldered a big workload. He was durable before that injury, and has been durable since. In the past 2 seasons, he’s played more NBA games (156) than most high profile “on ball” players, including Booker, Lillard, Irving, George, Morant, the Ball brothers, Herro, LaVine, Mitchell, Halliburton, Maxey, Curry, Beal, Young, Harden, Fox and most others. A very small number of scoring/playmaking guards — Edwards, Brunson, Doncic (who played 2 more games than Murray over 2 years and also wasn’t very healthy in the 2024 playoffs) — have been more durable recently. I often get the impression that Nuggets’ fans don’t pay much attention to the rest of the NBA and have mythic ideas about what is going on with other teams and non-Nuggets players. It’s a physically punishing sport and most players battle injuries. There are a few Ironmen who have avoided significant injury and consistently play a lot of games but those guys are rare exceptions. The rule is that NBA players get hurt from time to time. Murray was actually very good last season but after a short offseason and a big workload in the regular season, he wore down and didn’t have much left for the playoffs. He needs to take time and get treatment and get healthier. Hopefully, Westbrook will be a better backup PG and that will enable the team to do a better job of managing Murray’s workload and give him a better chance to stay reasonably healthy. What does playing through injury help when his injuries is the excuse when he or we underpreform? Jokic co-star needs to be healthy. Lets not re-write history. Ive been noticing this and posting about it for years. Call him Cookie-Murray for a reason. Im not saying trade him tho. Because we wont get proper value. |
|
|
|
Post by wizardofcozz on Aug 23, 2024 9:39:43 GMT -5
Dear Josh, Jamal Murray is rarely healthy. Do us all a favor and TRADE HIM. Nikola Jokic will not be in his prime forever. Sincerely, Denver Nuggets fans Aside from the time he missed for his ACL injury, Murray has been durable, has played a lot of games, and has shouldered a big workload. He was durable before that injury, and has been durable since. In the past 2 seasons, he’s played more NBA games (156) than most high profile “on ball” players, including Booker, Lillard, Irving, George, Morant, the Ball brothers, Herro, LaVine, Mitchell, Halliburton, Maxey, Curry, Beal, Young, Harden, Fox and most others. A very small number of scoring/playmaking guards — Edwards, Brunson, Doncic (who played 2 more games than Murray over 2 years and also wasn’t very healthy in the 2024 playoffs) — have been more durable recently. I often get the impression that Nuggets’ fans don’t pay much attention to the rest of the NBA and have mythic ideas about what is going on with other teams and non-Nuggets players. It’s a physically punishing sport and most players battle injuries. There are a few Ironmen who have avoided significant injury and consistently play a lot of games but those guys are rare exceptions. The rule is that NBA players get hurt from time to time. Murray was actually very good last season but after a short offseason and a big workload in the regular season, he wore down and didn’t have much left for the playoffs. He needs to take time and get treatment and get healthier. Hopefully, Westbrook will be a better backup PG and that will enable the team to do a better job of managing Murray’s workload and give him a better chance to stay reasonably healthy. Last two regular seasons Murray -124 Booker -121 Lillard - 131 Irving - 78 SGA - 143 Brunson - 145 Mitchell - 123 Maxey -130 Doncic - 136 Jrue - 136 Edwards - 157 Fox - 147 Brown - 137 Derozan - 153 Herro - Curry - 130 Dejounte - 152 Herro - 109 Vanvleet - 142 Lamelo - 58 Sexton 126 Morant - 70 (part of this was his suspension, but he wqas injured last year as well) Lavine - 102 Haliburton - 125 Young - 127 Harden 130 Looking at these 26 players, Murray is 18th out of the 26, now to be fair, there are a few above him, that played only a few more games then him, so that is negligible, but it's still concerning that he is at the bottom end of durability. We also can't just ignore the ACL, that factors into frustration over his availability, even if it's not his fault. I was a huge Andrew Toney fan back in the day for PHI, guy was super injury-prone, and never got it back, while it sucks, and he doesn't hold personal responsiblity for being injury prone, it's still something the org has to take into consideration. While I would be for trading him in the right situation, there is no one to really trade him for that is going to net us equal value back. So hopefully we sign him, but to a fair deal, even if it's the max it should include some games played clauses, that if he doesn't meet he gets paid less IMO. That's where I'm at. If MPJ is durable again this year, he is a possibility to move for maybe two pieces back, as his salary is as big or bigger drain on our cap. OR he makes leap and this is all null and void. |
|
|
|
Post by GBG on Aug 23, 2024 10:19:21 GMT -5
Murray’s first year of the past two regular seasons was literally when he was coming back from an 18 month absence and not back to 100% conditioning. By the time the 2023 playoffs came around, Jamal was all the way back and we won a chip. So analyzing the past two regular seasons combined, in terms of games played, doesn’t factor in his ups and downs of returning after such a long rehab process, and obviously doesn’t take into account his two month long 20-game postseason in 2023 or 12 games in 2024 playoffs. Those 32 games of high intensity, playoff basketball in which he didn’t miss a game despite hurting in 2024 postseason counts for a lot.
I have no problem with Murray getting the max. He deserves it.
|
|
|
|
Post by scooter on Aug 23, 2024 11:34:57 GMT -5
Aside from the time he missed for his ACL injury, Murray has been durable, has played a lot of games, and has shouldered a big workload. He was durable before that injury, and has been durable since. In the past 2 seasons, he’s played more NBA games (156) than most high profile “on ball” players, including Booker, Lillard, Irving, George, Morant, the Ball brothers, Herro, LaVine, Mitchell, Halliburton, Maxey, Curry, Beal, Young, Harden, Fox and most others. A very small number of scoring/playmaking guards — Edwards, Brunson, Doncic (who played 2 more games than Murray over 2 years and also wasn’t very healthy in the 2024 playoffs) — have been more durable recently. I often get the impression that Nuggets’ fans don’t pay much attention to the rest of the NBA and have mythic ideas about what is going on with other teams and non-Nuggets players. It’s a physically punishing sport and most players battle injuries. There are a few Ironmen who have avoided significant injury and consistently play a lot of games but those guys are rare exceptions. The rule is that NBA players get hurt from time to time. Murray was actually very good last season but after a short offseason and a big workload in the regular season, he wore down and didn’t have much left for the playoffs. He needs to take time and get treatment and get healthier. Hopefully, Westbrook will be a better backup PG and that will enable the team to do a better job of managing Murray’s workload and give him a better chance to stay reasonably healthy. What does playing through injury help when his injuries is the excuse when he or we underpreform? Jokic co-star needs to be healthy. Lets not re-write history. Ive been noticing this and posting about it for years. Call him Cookie-Murray for a reason. Im not saying trade him tho. Because we wont get proper value. In prior playoff runs, Murray has generally ranged from really good to supersonic great. He had one bad year in the playoffs when his legs were shot and he was playing hurt (which did help the team as otherwise they would have lost in the first round to the Lakers). You know who also kinda sucked in the playoffs this year? Preseason MVP favorite Luka Doncic, who shot only 32% on threes over their run of 22 playoff games. Or how about supermax contract players Jayson Tatum (5 year/$314 mil + huge lux tax $$$ starting 2025) and Jaylen Brown (5 year/$285 mil + lux tax $$$)? In the Finals, Tatum shot 26% on threes (39% overall) and Brown shot 23% on threes. Those guys completely sucked on offense (tbf they played good defense) but were bailed out by their “supporting cast” and they got their rings despite missing most of their shots. Supermax player Jaylen Brown has a career playoff WS/48 (7 seasons of playoff runs) of .102 and Box +/- of 1.3 (barely positive) both of which are vastly inferior to Murray’s career playoff advanced numbers. Brown has often been a turnover machine in the playoffs, a glaring weakness which led Celtics’ management to move him to SF and bring in a new backcourt so Brown wouldn’t have the ball much. Just a little perspective about “superstar” players and how, unlike Jamal Murray, they always deliver in the playoffs. |
|
|
|
Post by scooter on Aug 23, 2024 12:07:53 GMT -5
Aside from the time he missed for his ACL injury, Murray has been durable, has played a lot of games, and has shouldered a big workload. He was durable before that injury, and has been durable since. In the past 2 seasons, he’s played more NBA games (156) than most high profile “on ball” players, including Booker, Lillard, Irving, George, Morant, the Ball brothers, Herro, LaVine, Mitchell, Halliburton, Maxey, Curry, Beal, Young, Harden, Fox and most others. A very small number of scoring/playmaking guards — Edwards, Brunson, Doncic (who played 2 more games than Murray over 2 years and also wasn’t very healthy in the 2024 playoffs) — have been more durable recently. I often get the impression that Nuggets’ fans don’t pay much attention to the rest of the NBA and have mythic ideas about what is going on with other teams and non-Nuggets players. It’s a physically punishing sport and most players battle injuries. There are a few Ironmen who have avoided significant injury and consistently play a lot of games but those guys are rare exceptions. The rule is that NBA players get hurt from time to time. Murray was actually very good last season but after a short offseason and a big workload in the regular season, he wore down and didn’t have much left for the playoffs. He needs to take time and get treatment and get healthier. Hopefully, Westbrook will be a better backup PG and that will enable the team to do a better job of managing Murray’s workload and give him a better chance to stay reasonably healthy. Last two regular seasons Murray -124 Booker -121 Lillard - 131 Irving - 78 SGA - 143 Brunson - 145 Mitchell - 123 Maxey -130 Doncic - 136 Jrue - 136 Edwards - 157 Fox - 147 Brown - 137 Derozan - 153 Herro - Curry - 130 Dejounte - 152 Herro - 109 Vanvleet - 142 Lamelo - 58 Sexton 126 Morant - 70 (part of this was his suspension, but he wqas injured last year as well) Lavine - 102 Haliburton - 125 Young - 127 Harden 130 Looking at these 26 players, Murray is 18th out of the 26, now to be fair, there are a few above him, that played only a few more games then him, so that is negligible, but it's still concerning that he is at the bottom end of durability. We also can't just ignore the ACL, that factors into frustration over his availability, even if it's not his fault. I was a huge Andrew Toney fan back in the day for PHI, guy was super injury-prone, and never got it back, while it sucks, and he doesn't hold personal responsiblity for being injury prone, it's still something the org has to take into consideration. While I would be for trading him in the right situation, there is no one to really trade him for that is going to net us equal value back. So hopefully we sign him, but to a fair deal, even if it's the max it should include some games played clauses, that if he doesn't meet he gets paid less IMO. That's where I'm at. If MPJ is durable again this year, he is a possibility to move for maybe two pieces back, as his salary is as big or bigger drain on our cap. OR he makes leap and this is all null and void. Murray falls roughly in the middle of the pack when you look at these regular season numbers, but here’s the thing — hardly any players on this list, including the Heat’s Tyler Herro who played only 19 minutes in the Heat’s 2023 playoff run, played to the Finals like Murray did during this period. The only guys on this list with Finals runs during this period are Curry and Brown (both played in the 2022 Finals), the latter of whom is definitely durable but has been moved to a smaller, mostly off ball role in the offense. Take 30 year old Fred VanVleet — he played only 117 total games (regular season and playoffs) in the 2 seasons after winning the 2019 title. Murray isn’t the most durable guy, but most of the guys on this list have not proven an ability to stay healthy for long regular season and playoff runs and stay really good despite that high workload. Its really tough — Edwards was a killer against the Nuggets and then ran out of gas in the subsequent 5 game series against the Mavs, with a net rating of -10. I’m just encouraging Nuggets’ fans to be a bit fairer in their assessment. |
|
|
|
Post by rock on Aug 23, 2024 14:10:47 GMT -5
Murray’s first year of the past two regular seasons was literally when he was coming back from an 18 month absence and not back to 100% conditioning. By the time the 2023 playoffs came around, Jamal was all the way back and we won a chip. So analyzing the past two regular seasons combined, in terms of games played, doesn’t factor in his ups and downs of returning after such a long rehab process, and obviously doesn’t take into account his two month long 20-game postseason in 2023 or 12 games in 2024 playoffs. Those 32 games of high intensity, playoff basketball in which he didn’t miss a game despite hurting in 2024 postseason counts for a lot. I have no problem with Murray getting the max. He deserves it. He “deserves” the max in the sense that’s just how the nba is He doesn’t deserve it if you feel that “max” salaries should be reserved for the top players only. The nba salary system is just so flawed. Why are guys like beal, maxey and garland “max” players when so are Luka, giannis and Lebron? Agents just know they can demand the max because teams are pushed into a corner. Agents have all the leverage. Teams cannot replace who they lose. What other sport would players similar to Scottie barnes and franz Wagner get max deals after 3 decent seasons? |
|
|
|
Post by LotharBraunBrownBryant on Aug 23, 2024 18:04:05 GMT -5
I’m just encouraging Nuggets’ fans to be a bit fairer in their assessment. Sports fans don't do that. Everything is an overreaction. We the GOAT team or we trash. Jamal is the perfect second option or he trash. Malone is the Lakers' daddy or he trash. |
|
|
|
Post by nuggetshipster on Aug 24, 2024 5:50:25 GMT -5
Murray’s first year of the past two regular seasons was literally when he was coming back from an 18 month absence and not back to 100% conditioning. By the time the 2023 playoffs came around, Jamal was all the way back and we won a chip. So analyzing the past two regular seasons combined, in terms of games played, doesn’t factor in his ups and downs of returning after such a long rehab process, and obviously doesn’t take into account his two month long 20-game postseason in 2023 or 12 games in 2024 playoffs. Those 32 games of high intensity, playoff basketball in which he didn’t miss a game despite hurting in 2024 postseason counts for a lot. I have no problem with Murray getting the max. He deserves it. What happened after he won in 2023? |
|
|
|
Post by scooter on Aug 24, 2024 10:44:53 GMT -5
Murray’s first year of the past two regular seasons was literally when he was coming back from an 18 month absence and not back to 100% conditioning. By the time the 2023 playoffs came around, Jamal was all the way back and we won a chip. So analyzing the past two regular seasons combined, in terms of games played, doesn’t factor in his ups and downs of returning after such a long rehab process, and obviously doesn’t take into account his two month long 20-game postseason in 2023 or 12 games in 2024 playoffs. Those 32 games of high intensity, playoff basketball in which he didn’t miss a game despite hurting in 2024 postseason counts for a lot. I have no problem with Murray getting the max. He deserves it. What happened after he won in 2023? He had an allstar caliber season, rather comparable overall to at least several allstars: Murray stats: 21.2 pts/6.5 assists/4.1 rebounds/2.1 TOs (>3:1 A/To ratio); shooting 48/43/85; WS/48 .153 Allstar guards: Halliburton (2X allstar): 20.1 pts/10.9 assists/3.9 rebounds/2.3 TOs; shooting 48/36/86; WS/48 .195 Mitchell (5X allstar): 26.6 pts/6.1 assists/5.1 rebounds/2.8 TOs; shooting 46/37/86; WS/48 .159 Young (2X allstar): 25.7 pts/10.8 assists/2.8 rebounds/4.4 TOs; shooting 43/37/85; ws/48 .115 Lillard (8X allstar): 24.3 pts/7.0 assists/4.4 rebounds/2.6 TOs; shooting 42/35/92; ws/48 .143 I didn’t feel like looking up more players, but this sample of allstar guards is good enough IMO. Some guys have some higher counting stats — the Nuggets do play at a slow pace — but it’s also noteworthy that Murray shot threes much better than any of these other guys and shot quite a bit better overall from the field than both Young and Lillard. Those guys do get to the line a lot and improve their TS%s that way. Still, missing more shots leads to more rebounds, which sometimes leads to fast break baskets the other way. Overall, I think Murray had a comparable regular season to a bunch of “allstar guards.” And I’d take him 10 times out of 10 over Young. We know that Murray battled injuries and fatigue in the 2024 playoffs, but 1) none of these other guys were playing in June 2023, and 2) Haliburton was the only one of these guys who made it to the conference finals this season and he missed multiple games with injury in that series. |
|
|
|
Post by nuggetshipster on Aug 24, 2024 12:21:55 GMT -5
I think this is what annoy those that gets labeled Murray hater.
That some people are completely delusional in his defense. Did anyone that watch the Nuggets and the NBA think Murray played like an All-Star? He OBVIOUSLY came into the season out of shape. And it is okay to point that out. No need to make s**t up lmao
|
|
|
|
Post by famicommander on Aug 24, 2024 12:27:50 GMT -5
I think this is what annoy those that gets labeled Murray hater. That some people are completely delusional in his defense. Did anyone that watch the Nuggets and the NBA think Murray played like an All-Star? He OBVIOUSLY came into the season out of shape. And it is okay to point that out. No need to make s**t up lmao Last year during the season I was ridiculed here for saying Jrue Holiday was better than Murray. Holiday has since been on an NBA Championship team and an Olympic gold medal team (his second in each category). |
|
|
|
Post by GBG on Aug 24, 2024 12:43:20 GMT -5
I think this is what annoy those that gets labeled Murray hater. That some people are completely delusional in his defense. Did anyone that watch the Nuggets and the NBA think Murray played like an All-Star? He OBVIOUSLY came into the season out of shape. And it is okay to point that out. No need to make s**t up lmao Last year during the season I was ridiculed here for saying Jrue Holiday was better than Murray. Holiday has since been on an NBA Championship team and an Olympic gold medal team (his second in each category). Why do Nuggets fans here hate on Murray? I am quite curious. Sure, he’s a borderline AllStar at best, but he doesn’t need the honor of making an AllStar team to feel validated. He would never win gold playing for Team Canada. He just needs to be healthy in postseason and do his thing, which has already won us one chip (Jokic can’t do it alone). So why do you hate on Murray? |
|
|
|
Post by nuggetshipster on Aug 24, 2024 12:48:45 GMT -5
How is saying he is injury prone and that he came into the season out of shape «hating»
|
|
|
|
Post by nuggetshipster on Aug 24, 2024 12:49:25 GMT -5
I love Murray. I do however get extremely annoyed with certain Nuggets fans delusional takes on him.
And it honestly is about respecting Jokic prime
|
|
