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Post by scooter on Aug 24, 2024 12:51:03 GMT -5
I think this is what annoy those that gets labeled Murray hater. That some people are completely delusional in his defense. Did anyone that watch the Nuggets and the NBA think Murray played like an All-Star? He OBVIOUSLY came into the season out of shape. And it is okay to point that out. No need to make s**t up lmao It’s tough for me to understand how objective numbers can be consistent with “delusion.” Your post is 100% consistent with my recent observation that a lot of Nuggets’ fans don’t seem to pay much attention to other teams and their players. You have an idea of an “allstar” that is a player who dominates every game (as with “max players”) but that’s not reality. There are a very few tier I players in the league — Jokic, Lebron (still) at his best, Curry (still) at his best, maybe SGA — and those guys consistently dominate and consistently play a hugely positive role in delivering wins, and have a litany of strengths. After those few guys, there is a big drop to the next level of players, who all have limitations and weaknesses to go with their strengths. There are some tier II guys who definitely rate more highly overall than Murray. But there are also a bunch of “allstars” whose relative amount of strengths and weaknesses are similar to Murray. You have your idea of what an “allstar” player plays like or looks like, but it’s not consistent with reality. Trae Young is a 2X allstar, and I’ll repeat that — since we want to make long playoff runs — I’ll take Murray 10X out of 10 over Young because there is no evidence and plenty of room for skepticism that you can win big in the postseason with Young. Lillard is an 8X allstar (including 2024) and he shot 42% from the field and only 35% on threes last season (compared to 48% and 43% for Murray). If you were a Bucks fan and actually watched him miss most of his shots last season, I think you’d have a different perspective about him being such a otherworldly superstar that Murray can’t carry his jock. “Allstar” doesn’t impress me that much. Joel Embiid is often the best player in the league in December, and at age 30 has yet to make a conference finals. |
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Post by JB on Aug 24, 2024 12:54:30 GMT -5
GBG, it's because many Nugget fans subscribe to the cult of Nikola Jokic and nuance is lost when you're a cult member. Nuggets win, Jokic is the GOAT. Nuggets lose, Jamal is a bum. no context is allowed.
listening to this faction of the fanbase you'd think Jamal was just another D'Angelo Russell, a regular season frontrunner that experiences PTSD in the playoffs and not a player that pretty much maxed out his moderate talent level and has always elevated his game in the playoffs when he had two working legs.
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Post by GBG on Aug 24, 2024 13:08:31 GMT -5
I am thinking primarily of Ring when I ask the question to Fami, why the hating on Murray? This whole phenomenon of Murray hate seems entirely due to recency bias to me. His poor showing for Team Canada, and his inconsistent play in 2024 postseason when he didn’t have two functioning legs all the time has turned some unrealistic fans against him. I agree with scooter that some fans around here have tunnel vision with regard to Murray, and don’t see the failings of other supposed “AllStar” guards around the league.
But Ring takes the cake around here. He actually posted last week that the Nuggets shouldn’t give the max to Murray and let him become a free agent after this season. Talk about hating! That carries the risk that we lose Murray and go into rebuild mode, perhaps even saying goodbye to Jokic in a trade. Because that’s entirely possible if there is no path to a chip after Murray leaves in free agency. Ring’s take, in short, was irrational. I hate using the word “insane” which he uses all the time, including in reference to responding to me. But it’s pretty crazy to let Murray play out the last season of his contract, unsigned, IMHO. It takes some real hate toward Murray to have that opinion.
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Post by JB on Aug 24, 2024 13:16:17 GMT -5
if we let Murray hit free agency, there's about a 100% chance Masai is going to clear cap room and enthusiastically give him a max deal.
it's funny, the fans who spend every waking moment panicking about Jokic's legacy would guarantee Joker would retire with 1 championship if the Nuggets would listen to them. it's like a Shakespearean tragedy.
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Post by nuggetshipster on Aug 24, 2024 18:01:22 GMT -5
I think this is what annoy those that gets labeled Murray hater. That some people are completely delusional in his defense. Did anyone that watch the Nuggets and the NBA think Murray played like an All-Star? He OBVIOUSLY came into the season out of shape. And it is okay to point that out. No need to make s**t up lmao It’s tough for me to understand how objective numbers can be consistent with “delusion.” Your post is 100% consistent with my recent observation that a lot of Nuggets’ fans don’t seem to pay much attention to other teams and their players. You have an idea of an “allstar” that is a player who dominates every game (as with “max players”) but that’s not reality. There are a very few tier I players in the league — Jokic, Lebron (still) at his best, Curry (still) at his best, maybe SGA — and those guys consistently dominate and consistently play a hugely positive role in delivering wins, and have a litany of strengths. After those few guys, there is a big drop to the next level of players, who all have limitations and weaknesses to go with their strengths. There are some tier II guys who definitely rate more highly overall than Murray. But there are also a bunch of “allstars” whose relative amount of strengths and weaknesses are similar to Murray. You have your idea of what an “allstar” player plays like or looks like, but it’s not consistent with reality. Trae Young is a 2X allstar, and I’ll repeat that — since we want to make long playoff runs — I’ll take Murray 10X out of 10 over Young because there is no evidence and plenty of room for skepticism that you can win big in the postseason with Young. Lillard is an 8X allstar (including 2024) and he shot 42% from the field and only 35% on threes last season (compared to 48% and 43% for Murray). If you were a Bucks fan and actually watched him miss most of his shots last season, I think you’d have a different perspective about him being such a otherworldly superstar that Murray can’t carry his jock. “Allstar” doesn’t impress me that much. Joel Embiid is often the best player in the league in December, and at age 30 has yet to make a conference finals. im sorry but i didnt bother reading more than the first sentence I will make this very clear. You saying Murray had an allstar calibre season is not objective numbers and is absolutely delusional |
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Post by nuggetshipster on Aug 24, 2024 18:02:43 GMT -5
Scooter either thinks there is an anti-Murray movement in the NBA or some other conspiracy or he so far up his own ass he thinks he is the only one that watch other teams.
Delusion or just extreme amounts of ego
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Post by nuggetshipster on Aug 24, 2024 18:06:26 GMT -5
if we let Murray hit free agency, there's about a 100% chance Masai is going to clear cap room and enthusiastically give him a max deal. it's funny, the fans who spend every waking moment panicking about Jokic's legacy would guarantee Joker would retire with 1 championship if the Nuggets would listen to them. it's like a Shakespearean tragedy. Ive literally seen one guy say let Murray walk. Literally every other person that is «anti-murray» literally just want him to get in f***ing shape Who are these people you call out |
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Post by scooter on Aug 25, 2024 9:44:19 GMT -5
if we let Murray hit free agency, there's about a 100% chance Masai is going to clear cap room and enthusiastically give him a max deal. it's funny, the fans who spend every waking moment panicking about Jokic's legacy would guarantee Joker would retire with 1 championship if the Nuggets would listen to them. it's like a Shakespearean tragedy. Ive literally seen one guy say let Murray walk. Literally every other person that is «anti-murray» literally just want him to get in f***ing shape I’ll come to Murray’s defense once again: 1) If Murray was in the lousy shape that preseason MVP Luka Doncic is in, the Nuggets would not have won a championship. He was great throughout that run, playing good defense in addition to his big offensive role, and being pretty darn good when switched onto bigger players, like the plays against Lebron. Can you envision Trae Young bottling up a motivated Lebron — ever? 2) He’s a naturally stocky guy. Not quite as stocky as Edwards, but way thicker than guys like Lillard and Curry and Haliburton and Irving. This has pros and cons — on the negative side, it’s impossible to have the highest level of aerobic fitness and stamina when your body type is wider and has more muscle mass. If you watched the Olympics, you see the difference between the guys running the 100m and those running the 1500m or longer. At every increase in the length of runs, the bodies thin out. And in high level soccer, you’ll see a lot of guys who are like 5’9” and 140 lbs. — they lift weights and work out hard but that’s the body type that tends to have the combination of quickness and stamina for that sport (at some positions). By contrast, in the NFL, there are players who are 6’2” and 320 lbs — they don’t have to run (and do other stuff) for more than 10 seconds and then they get a break and spend long periods of the game sitting on the bench. Murray isn’t going to get to the fitness level of Steph Curry or US soccer player Christian Pulisic (currently on AC MIlan), who is one of those 5’9” 140 lb guys. 3) Last season all of the Nuggets played on the heels of playing playoff basketball into June. After a 9 month season, they had about 10 weeks off. How hard were they supposed to work during that break? Do you not realize that recovery time (when muscles and tendons repair themselves after strains and damage) is just as important as workout time when it comes to fitness? Murray had a huge workload in the 22-23 season and it would have been flat out dumb for him to work too hard during the Nuggets short 2023 offseason. The complaining about Murray being “out of shape” last season seems divorced from reality about what it takes to stay on the court in this sport. All of the Nuggets starters ran out of gas in the playoffs last season. The only way to avoid that would have been significant load management throughout the season and the weakness of the bench and pressure of western conference competition prevented it, at least from Michael Malone’s perspective during the season. We’ll see what happens this season, but the conference disparity (which gave the Celtics a huge advantage) continues to create a big problem in that regard. |
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Post by JB on Aug 25, 2024 10:03:31 GMT -5
if we let Murray hit free agency, there's about a 100% chance Masai is going to clear cap room and enthusiastically give him a max deal. it's funny, the fans who spend every waking moment panicking about Jokic's legacy would guarantee Joker would retire with 1 championship if the Nuggets would listen to them. it's like a Shakespearean tragedy. Ive literally seen one guy say let Murray walk. Literally every other person that is «anti-murray» literally just want him to get in f***ing shape Who are these people you call out plenty of Nugget fans consider giving Murray a max deal a red line. |
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Post by scooter on Aug 25, 2024 11:23:21 GMT -5
Ive literally seen one guy say let Murray walk. Literally every other person that is «anti-murray» literally just want him to get in f***ing shape Who are these people you call out plenty of Nugget fans consider giving Murray a max deal a red line. Let’s not and instead trade him for Ben Simmons or Deandre Ayton or Brandon Ingram. |
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Post by nuggetshipster on Aug 25, 2024 17:11:10 GMT -5
Man i only know one Ben Simmons fanboy on this site and he liked that ironic post
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Post by nuggetshipster on Aug 25, 2024 17:11:59 GMT -5
Ive literally seen one guy say let Murray walk. Literally every other person that is «anti-murray» literally just want him to get in f***ing shape I’ll come to Murray’s defense once again: 1) If Murray was in the lousy shape that preseason MVP Luka Doncic is in, the Nuggets would not have won a championship. He was great throughout that run, playing good defense in addition to his big offensive role, and being pretty darn good when switched onto bigger players, like the plays against Lebron. Can you envision Trae Young bottling up a motivated Lebron — ever? 2) He’s a naturally stocky guy. Not quite as stocky as Edwards, but way thicker than guys like Lillard and Curry and Haliburton and Irving. This has pros and cons — on the negative side, it’s impossible to have the highest level of aerobic fitness and stamina when your body type is wider and has more muscle mass. If you watched the Olympics, you see the difference between the guys running the 100m and those running the 1500m or longer. At every increase in the length of runs, the bodies thin out. And in high level soccer, you’ll see a lot of guys who are like 5’9” and 140 lbs. — they lift weights and work out hard but that’s the body type that tends to have the combination of quickness and stamina for that sport (at some positions). By contrast, in the NFL, there are players who are 6’2” and 320 lbs — they don’t have to run (and do other stuff) for more than 10 seconds and then they get a break and spend long periods of the game sitting on the bench. Murray isn’t going to get to the fitness level of Steph Curry or US soccer player Christian Pulisic (currently on AC MIlan), who is one of those 5’9” 140 lb guys. 3) Last season all of the Nuggets played on the heels of playing playoff basketball into June. After a 9 month season, they had about 10 weeks off. How hard were they supposed to work during that break? Do you not realize that recovery time (when muscles and tendons repair themselves after strains and damage) is just as important as workout time when it comes to fitness? Murray had a huge workload in the 22-23 season and it would have been flat out dumb for him to work too hard during the Nuggets short 2023 offseason. The complaining about Murray being “out of shape” last season seems divorced from reality about what it takes to stay on the court in this sport. All of the Nuggets starters ran out of gas in the playoffs last season. The only way to avoid that would have been significant load management throughout the season and the weakness of the bench and pressure of western conference competition prevented it, at least from Michael Malone’s perspective during the season. We’ll see what happens this season, but the conference disparity (which gave the Celtics a huge advantage) continues to create a big problem in that regard. Okay so Murray is perfect in every way lmao |
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Post by nuggetshipster on Aug 25, 2024 17:12:41 GMT -5
I hope you as good at making excuses for every nugget
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Post by nuggetshipster on Aug 25, 2024 17:18:51 GMT -5
Not one single f***ing person is saying Murray was in bad shape during their championship run. Its impossible to have an actual discussion about this.
Lets just let it go
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Post by duh88 on Aug 26, 2024 21:50:01 GMT -5
Scooter either thinks there is an anti-Murray movement in the NBA or some other conspiracy or he so far up his own ass he thinks he is the only one that watch other teams. Delusion or just extreme amounts of ego I think there's an anti-Murray movement. I don't really know why? But Murray doesn't get the love he deserves. We're talking a PG that got triple-doubles in the NBA finals. How he's not equated to legendary status is beyond me. |
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Post by GBG on Aug 26, 2024 22:34:08 GMT -5
Adam Mares said on today’s DNVR Podcast that he expects Murray to sign his contract this week, or very soon after that. Don’t know if he’s been told some inside info, but I found that interesting when listening to the podcast during my daily walk around the neighborhood.
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Post by nuggetshipster on Aug 27, 2024 3:41:36 GMT -5
Scooter either thinks there is an anti-Murray movement in the NBA or some other conspiracy or he so far up his own ass he thinks he is the only one that watch other teams. Delusion or just extreme amounts of ego I think there's an anti-Murray movement. I don't really know why? But Murray doesn't get the love he deserves. We're talking a PG that got triple-doubles in the NBA finals. How he's not equated to legendary status is beyond me. This is an insane take tho. Everyone praised him during our championship run. But he failed to keep the momentum going. |
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pie
Joe Wolf Towel Boy
Posts: 352
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Post by pie on Aug 27, 2024 11:37:02 GMT -5
Hey Josh Kroenke,  Sincerely, Denver Nuggets fans |
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pie
Joe Wolf Towel Boy
Posts: 352
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Post by pie on Aug 28, 2024 12:44:21 GMT -5
Maybe the Kroenke's are too preoccupied with Arsenal than to find all-star talent to surround Nikola Jokic
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pie
Joe Wolf Towel Boy
Posts: 352
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Post by pie on Sept 1, 2024 8:39:52 GMT -5
Its September 1st: Jalen Pickett, Hunter Tyson and Zeke Nnaji are still on the roster. And Calvin Booth is still the GM.
Fire Josh Kroenke
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