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Post by passtheballquick on May 20, 2024 9:08:28 GMT -5
In the time frame 10:50-4:50 in the 3rd Q when the lead went down from 20 to 6 points, Nuggets didn't commit a single TO and took 9 shots and missed them all -Murray missed 4 -mental midget missed 2 -kcp missed 2 -Jokic missed 1 This was a 6 minute sequence of arrogance when the team played hero ball and went 100% away from the team ball I am sick of even thinking that you can lead by 20 in the 3rd and lose the game by 8
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Post by BBBbbb on May 20, 2024 9:14:48 GMT -5
We had good open shots in that sequence, they didn’t fall. If it’s just bad luck or physicality of the game I dunno, but we had good looks.
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Post by wizardofcozz on May 20, 2024 9:46:18 GMT -5
In the time frame 10:50-4:50 in the 3rd Q when the lead went down from 20 to 6 points, Nuggets didn't commit a single TO and took 9 shots and missed them all -Murray missed 4 -mental midget missed 2 -kcp missed 2 -Jokic missed 1 This was a 6 minute sequence of arrogance when the team played hero ball and went 100% away from the team ball I am sick of even thinking that you can lead by 20 in the 3rd and lose the game by 8 Thank you for that! I've had the night to reflect on things, and I'm going to give some of my thoughts from this series. 1.) For all the talk of MIN being a poor 1/2 court team, and at times they are, they have some many more scoring options then we do. The difference from 1st half to 2nd half is simple. Murray had it going 1st half and it loosened up everything else. 2nd Half he didn't and Jokic was way less effective. I don't think anyone would saya Jokic played great, he obviously was dead tired by 2nd half, but then you look at MIN and it's so frustrating. If ANT and Towns aren't playing well they have Conlye, and they have Reid to pick them up offensively. Reid can literally shoot the 3, drive, and post up players. We don't have enough dynamic offensive players on this team. At end of the day, we won more games in regular season then last year, in a Western Conference thata is better than last year, and lost in the playoffs to a team better than anay team we played last year. Now do we lose this series with Bruce. Probably not, but Bruce gives us the one thing this team doesn't have. 1 more guy who can kinda create, shoot 3's, and defend. We need more Bruce Brown's who can do a variety of things and less guys who are 1 or 2 dimensional. 2.) Moves need to be made. We can't just run it back or we are going to be in same boat as this year. We will be good enough to compete, but it's a razor's edge to win it, especially how tough the West is. OKC is going to get better, and MIN is going to be better with ANT being a year older. MAVS also aren't getting anay worse. I don't know whaat the answer is. I know this MPJ is the first guy I'm looking at moving. He's as 1-dimensional as they come, and for what we pay him it's an albatross of a contract around our necks. He made 33 million this year. That'd be like having Bruce Brown and Chris Bouchet from TOR. I think most on the eteam would rather have those two then MPJ. Or Bruce Brown and Kelly Olynik. We need depth anad players who can do multiple things. Let's then look at some of our other starters. Gordon had 4 pts and 4 rebs last night! He's paid 22 million dollars, and offers zero consistency from game to game. I'm not saying trade him, but we as a team, have to figure out how to get some consistency from guys in the playoffs. IN the bookend games that were the most winnable that we lost, Gordon had 9 pts and 4 pts. We need more of that. I also don't get how in some games he drives and gets to the rim and scores, and in other games he does nothing. It's extremely frustrating. KCP scored in double figures only twice in 7 games. He also only shot over 33% from 3 twice in the series. It's frustrating when we compare him to McDaniels who had 23 pts and 21 pts the final two games of the series. At the end of the day. We lost the series because there role players outplayed ours. 3) NEED MORE SHOT CREATORS. This series super exposed that we have 1.5 shot creators on this team. Jokic, and sometimes Murray. I'd label Murray more of a shot maker then a creator, where he gets shots off of Jokic gravity, and off of his ability to hit tough contested shots. But end of the day. Jokic is literally only guy on the team who can get to the rim and force a double. Teams will live with Murray hitting tough shots over guys, and so aren't going to double that very often. MIN on the other Hand can force a double off of ANT, Towns, and Reid at times, on top of the fact that McDaniels can also get to the rim and score. We have one dude who puts pressure on the rim, and it messes up other parts of our game. 4.) The game is changing. From 2014-2020 game was about small ball and spread and chuck 3's. GS maade a living out of this. The Lebron Cavs did the same things. Put shooters around a creator and go to work. To an extant LAL, MIL, and DEN have changed the game. LAL was most effective when they had 2 bigs tht allowed AD to play the 4. MIL when healthy was a long rangy defensive team, that scored jsut enough to win. DEN beat everyone last year, because we smacked around all of the small teams, and you can't small ball us. In fact We probably played the two toughest teams that can challenge us defensively in the first 2 rounds. Anyone else and we probably dominate, at least offensively. Our cheat code has been that with AG, MPJ, anad JOkic we bully ball all those small ball teams, well MIN has said we are going to go bigger than you. We need to find an answer for that. 5.) Last thing. We have to figure out how to play better out of teams who double team Jokic. What seemed like the difference to me between the 3 wins, and the 4 losses, was how much MIN doubled JOkic. LAL started doing the same thing. It seems like something teams are figuring out, and we need to figure our response. I think it points back to #3 on my list. If we had more legit shot creators who could attack closeouts it wouldn't be as big as issue, but teams know they can bull rush KCP and MPJ cause they aren't good slashers, and AG isn't a good enough shooter to closeout hard on. It's become extremely frustrating to watch, and is something we need to fix, probably from a roster standpoint going forward.
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Post by passtheballquick on May 20, 2024 9:50:06 GMT -5
We had good open shots in that sequence, they didn’t fall. If it’s just bad luck or physicality of the game I dunno, but we had good looks. Good looks don't count as we died on good looks. This team is one of the worst 3pt shooting teams and on the other hand they have unstoppable 2 man game. Straying away from your best part of the game and opting out for 3pt shooting for more than half of the quarter means only hero ball
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Post by jimijam28 on May 20, 2024 10:09:34 GMT -5
i wont call it hero ball- it was panic mode in the 3rd - I think malone coaching was bad in the playoffs.
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Post by passtheballquick on May 20, 2024 10:18:41 GMT -5
i wont call it hero ball- it was panic mode in the 3rd - I think malone coaching was bad in the playoffs. No panick mode in any sport when you have that high lead. When you're up by 20 and you take 5 3pointers, knowing that you're one of the worst 3pt shooting teams that's only hero ball
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Post by jimijam28 on May 20, 2024 10:26:43 GMT -5
i wont call it hero ball- it was panic mode in the 3rd - I think malone coaching was bad in the playoffs. No panick mode in any sport when you have that high lead. When you're up by 20 and you take 5 3pointers, knowing that you're one of the worst 3pt shooting teams that's only hero ball and that all malone- this offense is so easy to figure out ,, Min lock down and made a run in the 3rd and we started to panic and started too jack up soo many 3- how many times did jokic take a stupid 3 after a timeout..... better team won - time to retool this summer.
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Post by scooter on May 20, 2024 10:55:41 GMT -5
In today’s game a player that can defend and spot up for 3 is getting payed over 20mil. ...and that's the issue as he will get $20 mil/year tossed at him by a team and unless MPJ can be shipped out for less returning money before free agency, KSE will not agree to add more salary to a team eliminated in the 2nd round. Flip CB into the starting lineup and get a legit 6th man scorer off the bench. I don’t think the team gets better that way: 1) even if Braun and KCP are an even steven proposition in the starting lineup, how does the bench not get worse by subtracting Braun, the team’s best bench player? 2) Who is this legit 6th man scorer who is a non-Bird rights UFA willing to take the taxpayer’s MLE of $5-6 mil per? I like Taurean Prince and in some world of luck he is this year’s Bruce Brown but the odds are strongly against the Nuggets pulling that off again.
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Post by scooter on May 20, 2024 11:20:07 GMT -5
Repeating being hard is a lame ass excuse. We have what should have been a back2back2back2back MVP Tell Jordan that repeating is hard The NBA is a very different league than it was during Jordan’s era. Revenue for the entire league was $165 mil in 1984 and now it’s about $10 bil/year. When Jordan was playing (he had a salary of $30 mil in the mid 90’s when league revenue was still a fraction of what it is now) , there were a handful of teams that could even afford to compete for a title. Now every team can. This season the NBA has top teams in Oklahoma City and Minneapolis and Denver and Indianapolis — teams better than those in NY and LA and Chicago and SF. The league has changed. Even Lebron has only repeated once and his 4 titles (1 in the bubble after a 5 month stoppage in NBA play) are on 3 different teams.
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Post by JB on May 20, 2024 11:34:51 GMT -5
I would like the Nuggets to at least attempt to utilize the free agent market this summer.
Calvin is not Leonardo Dicaprio in Catch Me If You Can. he's not Kevin Spacey in The Usual Suspects. he attempted to game the system last summer and ended up with pie in his face. now, his recruiting job will be harder since we lost the championship allure, but he has no one to blame but himself for that.
you can strike out, but If I don't read at least 5 "...and player x also received interest from the Denver Nuggets" agent press clippings, then perhaps it's time to admit Calvin needs help with his job.
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Post by GBG on May 20, 2024 11:48:10 GMT -5
I would like the Nuggets to at least attempt to utilize the free agent market this summer. Calvin is not Leonardo Dicaprio in Catch Me If You Can. he's not Kevin Spacey in The Usual Suspects. he attempted to game the system last summer and ended up with pie in his face. now, his recruiting job will be harder since we lost the championship allure, but he has no one to blame but himself for that. you can strike out, but If I don't read at least 5 "...and player x also received interest from the Denver Nuggets" agent press clippings, then perhaps it's time to admit Calvin needs help with his job. This is oversimplification. What can we pay to a free agent? Do you know? I’ll stop here and listen.
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Post by sawyeral on May 20, 2024 11:52:49 GMT -5
Tough night. I f***ing dreamt about Jayden Mcdaniels knocking down corner threes while MPJ was hitting the backboard on his. Gonna take awhile to get over this one. Not only coughing up a 20 pt lead, but doing so in just a few minutes and losing going away. Arguably the best home court advantage in the league, and you comfortably lose 3 of 4 home games in a series. Came within a couple eyelashes of losing 5 home games out of 7 these playoffs. Minnesota was supposed to have terrible conditioning, yet looked like the stronger team late. Nugs were supposed to be the ultimate clutch time team, yet looked shook consistently against the wolves. A lot was made of our ‘perfectly constructed’ starting lineup…yet against Minny we have our dunker spot guy completely neutralized except when he shoots 11-12 and cashes threes.
Had a chance…real chance to escape this series and make another run. Blew our lead and our composure and now get to sit with it until October. Just sucks.
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Post by freakns on May 20, 2024 12:08:25 GMT -5
Yeah if Calvin just lean on «internal growth» aka saving money again this summer i might puke second apron is not about money, its about trades, signings and picks. for example, if you are over 2nd apron you can't trade one player for multiple players. ie. if you want to trade MPJ, you can't trade him for two or more guys, you have to trade him for equal or slightly lower contract. for example, if you are under 2nd apron, MPJ for Kyrie is legit trade. if you are over, its not cause Kyrie is getting something like 1.5M more then MPJ. you are also losing rights to MLE, and if you are 2 years into 2nd apron, you are losing picks... something like that. its insanely restrictive. you'll see it with Suns, they will have hell trying to retool their roster unless they trade KD or Booker(I think no one sane will trade for Beal even if he agrees to be traded cause of his no trade clause) so last year Booth didn't try to save money, he was trying to stay below 2nd apron for other reasons. in a same time, after loosing Bruce, Nuggets needed to find another ball handler. thats why they signed Reggie. and after signing Reggie we knew Uncle Jeff is not getting back... so Nuggets needed another ball handler, another center and one more big. that was everything they could afford. and all of them had to cost less then 10M total. well, that was impossible. so they decided to sign Reggie and DAJ and add Holiday, and gave Zeke extension. I think plan was to trade him and get someone. but now we are stuck with horrible contract that no one wants and we need money badly... next season, Booth still have not many options. I wouldn't be surprised if Reggie comes back, they resign DAJ again and then extend KCP. KCP will pick up his option and in return he will get something like 4 yrs 80M extension that would kick next season, same time new "TV deal"(its more network deal, but you know what I'm talking about) kicks in and give us some money... he will probably also give Jamal max. so more likely then not, we are running it back. either that, of we are letting KCP go and give starting job to CB and find some cheap bench player who will most likely suck ass, cause you are not getting quality players for 5M. Bruce was lucky exception. third option is trading MPJ, but giving his contract, not sure who would take him and what would you get in return. for example, OG is looking at same type of contract MPJ has. 4 seasons, 35 per season. everyone here is mentioning how he would be perfect fit etc, etc... in last 4 seasons, OG Anunoby has played more then 50 games only once, and was injured during playoffs this season. MPJ has played more then 50 games in 4 out of 5 seasons for Nuggets and was available for playoffs in each of those 4 seasons. not to mention other qualities he has. guy has overcome 3 back surgeries and played full season! and people would trade him for someone who cant stay on the court... fml
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Post by wizardofcozz on May 20, 2024 12:09:51 GMT -5
Tough night. I f***ing dreamt about Jayden Mcdaniels knocking down corner threes while MPJ was hitting the backboard on his. Gonna take awhile to get over this one. Not only coughing up a 20 pt lead, but doing so in just a few minutes and losing going away. Arguably the best home court advantage in the league, and you comfortably lose 3 of 4 home games in a series. Came within a couple eyelashes of losing 5 home games out of 7 these playoffs. Minnesota was supposed to have terrible conditioning, yet looked like the stronger team late. Nugs were supposed to be the ultimate clutch time team, yet looked shook consistently against the wolves. A lot was made of our ‘perfectly constructed’ starting lineup…yet against Minny we have our dunker spot guy completely neutralized except when he shoots 11-12 and cashes threes. Had a chance…real chance to escape this series and make another run. Blew our lead and our composure and now get to sit with it until October. Just sucks. 100% what I saw as well. I don't understand what happened to AG taking guys off the dribble. He'd have games where he'd attack, theen other games nothing. Exceedingly frustrating.
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Post by JB on May 20, 2024 12:10:50 GMT -5
I would like the Nuggets to at least attempt to utilize the free agent market this summer. Calvin is not Leonardo Dicaprio in Catch Me If You Can. he's not Kevin Spacey in The Usual Suspects. he attempted to game the system last summer and ended up with pie in his face. now, his recruiting job will be harder since we lost the championship allure, but he has no one to blame but himself for that. you can strike out, but If I don't read at least 5 "...and player x also received interest from the Denver Nuggets" agent press clippings, then perhaps it's time to admit Calvin needs help with his job. This is oversimplification. What can we pay to a free agent? Do you know? I’ll stop here and listen. concerning last year, the Nuggets could have used the TPMLE to sign a free agent, which they used to sign Reggie Jackson. the Nuggets just needed one player that could ease the burden of their starters, instead they doubled down on a player that was clearly washed. it was a horrendous decision at the time and cost us a championship in retrospect. the Nuggets at the time had just won a championship and just delivered generational wealth to a player that bet on the Nuggets (Bruce Brown, obviously). it was not a hard sell to convince a player to sign, but we didn't even bother to look.
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Post by wizardofcozz on May 20, 2024 12:15:58 GMT -5
Yeah if Calvin just lean on «internal growth» aka saving money again this summer i might puke second apron is not about money, its about trades, signings and picks. for example, if you are over 2nd apron you can't trade one player for multiple players. ie. if you want to trade MPJ, you can't trade him for two or more guys, you have to trade him for equal or slightly lower contract. for example, if you are under 2nd apron, MPJ for Kyrie is legit trade. if you are over, its not cause Kyrie is getting something like 1.5M more then MPJ. you are also losing rights to MLE, and if you are 2 years into 2nd apron, you are losing picks... something like that. its insanely restrictive. you'll see it with Suns, they will have hell trying to retool their roster unless they trade KD or Booker(I think no one sane will trade for Beal even if he agrees to be traded cause of his no trade clause) so last year Booth didn't try to save money, he was trying to stay below 2nd apron for other reasons. in a same time, after loosing Bruce, Nuggets needed to find another ball handler. thats why they signed Reggie. and after signing Reggie we knew Uncle Jeff is not getting back... so Nuggets needed another ball handler, another center and one more big. that was everything they could afford. and all of them had to cost less then 10M total. well, that was impossible. so they decided to sign Reggie and DAJ and add Holiday, and gave Zeke extension. I think plan was to trade him and get someone. but now we are stuck with horrible contract that no one wants and we need money badly... next season, Booth still have not many options. I wouldn't be surprised if Reggie comes back, they resign DAJ again and then extend KCP. KCP will pick up his option and in return he will get something like 4 yrs 80M extension that would kick next season, same time new "TV deal"(its more network deal, but you know what I'm talking about) kicks in and give us some money... he will probably also give Jamal max. so more likely then not, we are running it back. either that, of we are letting KCP go and give starting job to CB and find some cheap bench player who will most likely suck ass, cause you are not getting quality players for 5M. Bruce was lucky exception. third option is trading MPJ, but giving his contract, not sure who would take him and what would you get in return. for example, OG is looking at same type of contract MPJ has. 4 seasons, 35 per season. everyone here is mentioning how he would be perfect fit etc, etc... in last 4 seasons, OG Anunoby has played more then 50 games only once, and was injured during playoffs this season. MPJ has played more then 50 games in 4 out of 5 seasons for Nuggets and was available for playoffs in each of those 4 seasons. not to mention other qualities he has. guy has overcome 3 back surgeries and played full season! and people would trade him for someone who cant stay on the court... fml It will be interesting to see wheree PHX goes this summer! I totally agree, I don't blame Booth, as i would of ran it back as well. But now we have another season of evidence, and we've seen the moves other teams have made, and we need to respond accordingly. Hopefully Jokic 3 PT shot returns this next season, that was a huge difference between last year and this in the playoffs. Obviously he's not missing em on purpose, but it is something he should invest in working on this offseason. Even if he could just get a consistent 36% I'd rather have that then 40% one season 29% the next. I don't disagree that are options are limited, I think option should be to showcase MPJ early in the season have him have some huge games and trade his ass for two pieces. But as you said we got to stay under 2nd apron.
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Post by wizardofcozz on May 20, 2024 12:16:59 GMT -5
This is oversimplification. What can we pay to a free agent? Do you know? I’ll stop here and listen. the Nuggets could have used the TPMLE to sign a free agent, which they used to sign Reggie Jackson. the Nuggets just needed one player that could ease the burden of their starters, instead they doubled down on a player that was clearly washed. it was a horrendous decision at the time and cost us a championship in retrospect. the Nuggets at the time had just won a championship and just delivered generational wealth to a player that bet on the Nuggets (Bruce Brown, obviously). it was not a hard sell to convince a player to sign, but we didn't even bother to look. I get the sentiment, but go back anad look who was available for that amount of money! There was literally no one. We're in a rock and a hard place. No knock on rock btw.
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Post by GBG on May 20, 2024 12:18:04 GMT -5
This is oversimplification. What can we pay to a free agent? Do you know? I’ll stop here and listen. the Nuggets could have used the TPMLE to sign a free agent, which they used to sign Reggie Jackson. the Nuggets just needed one player that could ease the burden of their starters, instead they doubled down on a player that was clearly washed. it was a horrendous decision at the time and cost us a championship in retrospect. the Nuggets at the time had just won a championship and just delivered generational wealth to a player that bet on the Nuggets (Bruce Brown, obviously). it was not a hard sell to convince a player to sign, but we didn't even bother to look. Fantastic way to not answer the question. You made a forward-looking comment about what Calvin needs to do this summer in free agent market, and I asked what he can pay, and then you go into a rant about Reggie Jackson. As if Bruce Brown types, at that salary level he took, grow on trees. That was a one-off, hardly repeatable. But use your time available to say how Reggie cost us a chip. I don’t care.
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Post by JB on May 20, 2024 12:22:21 GMT -5
the Nuggets could have used the TPMLE to sign a free agent, which they used to sign Reggie Jackson. the Nuggets just needed one player that could ease the burden of their starters, instead they doubled down on a player that was clearly washed. it was a horrendous decision at the time and cost us a championship in retrospect. the Nuggets at the time had just won a championship and just delivered generational wealth to a player that bet on the Nuggets (Bruce Brown, obviously). it was not a hard sell to convince a player to sign, but we didn't even bother to look. Fantastic way to not answer the question. You made a forward-looking comment about what Calvin needs to do this summer in free agent market, and I asked what he can pay, and then you go into a rant about Reggie Jackson. As if Bruce Brown types, at that salary level he took, grow on trees. That was a one-off, hardly repeatable. But use your time available to say how Reggie cost us a chip. I don’t care. the truth is, I have no idea if the TPMLE will be available to us this season. Calvin fucked us royally by handing out the extension to Zeke and the Player Option to Reggie, which he has about a 100% likelihood to pick up. so Calvin's bad decisions might leave us with no options, but I need our resident capologist Lothar to break it down for us.
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Post by JB on May 20, 2024 12:27:06 GMT -5
the Nuggets could have used the TPMLE to sign a free agent, which they used to sign Reggie Jackson. the Nuggets just needed one player that could ease the burden of their starters, instead they doubled down on a player that was clearly washed. it was a horrendous decision at the time and cost us a championship in retrospect. the Nuggets at the time had just won a championship and just delivered generational wealth to a player that bet on the Nuggets (Bruce Brown, obviously). it was not a hard sell to convince a player to sign, but we didn't even bother to look. I get the sentiment, but go back anad look who was available for that amount of money! There was literally no one. We're in a rock and a hard place. No knock on rock btw. as I said earlier, there wasn't even an attempt. agents like to run victory laps after their client signs with a team, and there wasn't a single "...my client also received interest from the NBA Champion Denver Nuggets" press clipping. not one. we handed out the TPMLE to Reggie on day one and called it a day. I'm not rock so I don't believe ring chasers and bag chasers are available to literally every other championship team except the Nuggets. we didn't even bother to look.
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