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Post by Ring on Jun 10, 2024 9:46:54 GMT -5
Watching the playoffs now and the Nuggets in recent years just confirms my big picture view that the Nuggets’ starting 5 is excellent. It’s clearly better than that of the Mavs, who don’t have enough high level players. The Celtics likely would have beaten us in the Finals this year, but every year is different and our Nuggets team would have beaten the Celtics in other seasons. Nothing in the playoffs has altered my view that the Nuggets’ bench was just terrible this season and that created all kinds of negative effects, including the biggest effect that it wore out the starters because of no ability to manage their load in a defending championship season in which other teams were coming at them harder than usual all season and the schedule was difficult because the west is so much better and you play most of your games in your conference. If the NBA is going to continue to allow the game to be this physical — so far the Finals are like the 90’s with “first team to 100 wins” (last season, the average points/game in the Nuggets’ playoff series against the TWolves, Suns and Lakers — Heat had little offensive talent so those games were misleading — was 220, 230, 224) — the one of the Nuggets’ top 6 players I’d consider trading is Porter. But I’d only consider it and only in the right deal and a good deal may not be available for a bit until his remaining contract is shorter. (In an ideal world PJ Washington was still in Charlotte and you could trade Porter for Washington + another player — I think Washington is really good). Watching these games makes me want even more for the team to retain KCP — he’s not as great as Holiday but he has a similar important role on the team and as I’m watching the Finals I cannot imagine the Nuggets being as good in this kind of basketball without KCP. Next year is going to be very interesting because it's very clear based off Malone's comments that he knows the starters were dead tired and worn out. They'll get an extra month of rest this year when compared to last which is nice. We'll see who plays in the Olympics. I don't really trust Malone to adjust because he is very stubborn and doesn't like losing games. It's clear that the starters were dead in the playoffs though, which is what makes the Spurs loss all that more infuriating. However, I don't believe this team fully rested wins a ring this year.
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Post by scooter on Jun 10, 2024 10:00:34 GMT -5
Trading Murray for multiple players would be a mistake. Just because one team is making a run off depth doesn't mean it's the norm. It always gets ignored the attention star players draw as well which makes is so much easier for role players. Just look how Murray is defended and the attention he gets in the playoffs. You can't just forget Murray closing out games in the playoffs. Depth won't do that. You don't move Murray yet but if he lays another egg next year and forces your hand than it needs to be a 1 for 1 where you raise your floor. Try and get as close as you can to the ceiling we know Murray provides while improving the floor because there's no denying Murray has consistency/durability issues at this point. MPJ I'd be fine with moving. Personally wouldn't trade him but I get the thinking. As the team loses depth the ceiling becomes less important. You need more stability. MPJ's ceiling is lower and his floor is also lower but it's built in a similar mold to Murray. Tough having 2 important players like that with poor depth. Even after a bad playoff year in which he was struggling with health issues (attributable in part to the Nuggets’ horrible lack of guard depth), here are Murray’s career playoff numbers: 24 points/6.2 assists/5 rebounds/2.4 turnovers with shooting splits of 46/39/91. I fail to see how the team gets better replacing that with one or more lesser guards (or anyone who would be available on the trade market) playing against playoff defenses.
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Post by scooter on Jun 10, 2024 10:09:17 GMT -5
Watching the playoffs now and the Nuggets in recent years just confirms my big picture view that the Nuggets’ starting 5 is excellent. It’s clearly better than that of the Mavs, who don’t have enough high level players. The Celtics likely would have beaten us in the Finals this year, but every year is different and our Nuggets team would have beaten the Celtics in other seasons. Nothing in the playoffs has altered my view that the Nuggets’ bench was just terrible this season and that created all kinds of negative effects, including the biggest effect that it wore out the starters because of no ability to manage their load in a defending championship season in which other teams were coming at them harder than usual all season and the schedule was difficult because the west is so much better and you play most of your games in your conference. If the NBA is going to continue to allow the game to be this physical — so far the Finals are like the 90’s with “first team to 100 wins” (last season, the average points/game in the Nuggets’ playoff series against the TWolves, Suns and Lakers — Heat had little offensive talent so those games were misleading — was 220, 230, 224) — the one of the Nuggets’ top 6 players I’d consider trading is Porter. But I’d only consider it and only in the right deal and a good deal may not be available for a bit until his remaining contract is shorter. (In an ideal world PJ Washington was still in Charlotte and you could trade Porter for Washington + another player — I think Washington is really good). Watching these games makes me want even more for the team to retain KCP — he’s not as great as Holiday but he has a similar important role on the team and as I’m watching the Finals I cannot imagine the Nuggets being as good in this kind of basketball without KCP. Next year is going to be very interesting because it's very clear based off Malone's comments that he knows the starters were dead tired and worn out. They'll get an extra month of rest this year when compared to last which is nice. We'll see who plays in the Olympics. I don't really trust Malone to adjust because he is very stubborn and doesn't like losing games. It's clear that the starters were dead in the playoffs though, which is what makes the Spurs loss all that more infuriating. However, I don't believe this team fully rested wins a ring this year. I agree because they just had no bench outside of Braun and what he brings for defense and hustle. But no playable bench bigs and with the loss of BB, little ballhandling/scoring off the bench. So the Nuggets just had some real holes this season and were not as good. Now we get to wait and see if they can upgrade their roster over the summer and/or by next season’s trade deadline.
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Post by passtheballquick on Jun 10, 2024 10:29:34 GMT -5
The only team that can beat this well constructed team is Denver and nobody else. And for Denver to beat them, the starters needed to be rested 2 weeks before the end of the regular season. Rest>>>>rust and Boston has nobody to stop Jokic. Jokic would not only score on them but would destroy them with his playmaking. Their best 2 players Tatum and Brown are very good players but their feel for the game is similar to MPJ's and Jokic just toys with guys like that. I hope our dumb coaching stuff has learned something from the last 2 seasons. Seeding is the biggest BS and Dallas proved it this year, Heat proved it the year before and Hawks proved it before that. This is not 1990 or 2000. This is 2024 and different rules are in place Seeding doesn't matter.... Yet BOS had best record in NBA and is going to win the NBA championship most likely. Seething doesn't matter a bit. You just picked the wrong sample out the 2. Dallas showed you that seeding didn't matter. Boston is not going to win because of seeding. Boston is going to win because they're a much better team than Dallas. The only way we could have won it this year was to punt the games in the last 2 weeks. Had we done it, we would have benefited in multiple ways but just bored to type it. But it you want me to be more specific, we were not able to reach Boston seeding wise and Dallas went out of west without a home court in a single series
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Post by GBG on Jun 10, 2024 10:32:35 GMT -5
Next year is going to be very interesting because it's very clear based off Malone's comments that he knows the starters were dead tired and worn out. They'll get an extra month of rest this year when compared to last which is nice. We'll see who plays in the Olympics. I don't really trust Malone to adjust because he is very stubborn and doesn't like losing games. It's clear that the starters were dead in the playoffs though, which is what makes the Spurs loss all that more infuriating. However, I don't believe this team fully rested wins a ring this year. I agree because they just had no bench outside of Braun and what he brings for defense and hustle. But no playable bench bigs and with the loss of BB, little ballhandling/scoring off the bench. So the Nuggets just had some real holes this season and were not as good. Now we get to wait and see if they can upgrade their roster over the summer and/or by next season’s trade deadline. You write as though we have no potential for an internal upgrade, and it will have to come from this summer’s moves or the trade deadline next year. I remind you Watson made strides in his first full NBA season, and is a good player off the bench even if not the modern prototype 3&D wing. His 3 needs to get more consistent, but there is no reason not to think that will happen. Kid is not only a really good athlete, he’s a smart athlete. And by all accounts, a really hard worker. Our internal upgrade will be Watson turning into a more consistent 20 mpg pest off the bench. Don’t forget that. As for the rest of the bench, I’d agree they are unproven, but it’s not like there is no hope for them and none will be ready for playoffs in 2025. Strawther has a real shot to contribute, and while I have my doubts, you can’t just write him off. Tyson and Pickett are suspects more than prospects, and I wouldn’t miss them being dealt away with Zeke and a pick. But we do have a couple guys on our roster who can contribute to Postseason 2025.
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Post by Ring on Jun 10, 2024 10:43:33 GMT -5
The Nuggets need to improve by landing a good vet min big and a good player for the tax MLE. Won't be easy. Expecting guys like Strawther/Tyson/Pickett and even Watson to contribute heavily to a playoff team is rose colored glasses stuff. We saw with Watson how inconsistent he was. He really needs to work on his body and get stronger. He still has a ton of potential but he has a lto of work to do.
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Post by TNF on Jun 10, 2024 10:49:14 GMT -5
One thing for sure is we need to at least think about changes at all but one position, with AG being the safest after Joker. Non-playoff/Bubble Jamal is a damned good player but is absolutely NOT untouchable, and if we can get ANY kind of value, MPJ has to be at least on the table. His medical issues are not secret and neither are his playoff disappearances. However, I think we all agree he's never been fully trusted by Malone to expand his game, or have we seen his peak? We cannot stand pat, but we also have to work on resolving the whole Malone-won't play rooks or second tier bigs, which is his pattern. Clearly this year he killed the starters with overwork.
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Post by passtheballquick on Jun 10, 2024 11:52:14 GMT -5
I'm a firm believer we need a PG creator on the perimeter that can both unlock Jokic's full power with a two-man game and get his own shot. Bogie is 32 years old and is not that guy. I'm basing my evidence on the championship we won. and you went from "defense and transition" wins championships to a Bogie/Lauri/Joker lineup. lol, bruh. goodnight is right. Your are correct about Bogie. His stats look exactly like Barton’s before he fell apart, and he’s older. The Euro bias here is strong. Comparing Bogie with Barton lol. One is out of the league and the other one will bring you picks and a decent player in return. Bogie is a better player than MPJ and even in the year when he retires he'll be a better player than mpj. Simply one is a winner and one is a loser. One is a choker and the other one plays the best when the pressure is on
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Post by passtheballquick on Jun 10, 2024 12:06:02 GMT -5
Watching the playoffs now and the Nuggets in recent years just confirms my big picture view that the Nuggets’ starting 5 is excellent. It’s clearly better than that of the Mavs, who don’t have enough high level players. The Celtics likely would have beaten us in the Finals this year, but every year is different and our Nuggets team would have beaten the Celtics in other seasons. Nothing in the playoffs has altered my view that the Nuggets’ bench was just terrible this season and that created all kinds of negative effects, including the biggest effect that it wore out the starters because of no ability to manage their load in a defending championship season in which other teams were coming at them harder than usual all season and the schedule was difficult because the west is so much better and you play most of your games in your conference. If the NBA is going to continue to allow the game to be this physical — so far the Finals are like the 90’s with “first team to 100 wins” (last season, the average points/game in the Nuggets’ playoff series against the TWolves, Suns and Lakers — Heat had little offensive talent so those games were misleading — was 220, 230, 224) — the one of the Nuggets’ top 6 players I’d consider trading is Porter. But I’d only consider it and only in the right deal and a good deal may not be available for a bit until his remaining contract is shorter. (In an ideal world PJ Washington was still in Charlotte and you could trade Porter for Washington + another player — I think Washington is really good). Watching these games makes me want even more for the team to retain KCP — he’s not as great as Holiday but he has a similar important role on the team and as I’m watching the Finals I cannot imagine the Nuggets being as good in this kind of basketball without KCP. Next year is going to be very interesting because it's very clear based off Malone's comments that he knows the starters were dead tired and worn out. They'll get an extra month of rest this year when compared to last which is nice. We'll see who plays in the Olympics. I don't really trust Malone to adjust because he is very stubborn and doesn't like losing games. It's clear that the starters were dead in the playoffs though, which is what makes the Spurs loss all that more infuriating. However, I don't believe this team fully rested wins a ring this year. We will never know if we win it or not, if fully rested but one thing is for sure:the only team that would stand a chance in beating Boston would be Denver. Also if Tatum were to average 17pts on 31%fg and 28% from 3 and Brown averages 21pt while shooting 27% from 3 we take both games in Boston to start the series
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Post by GBG on Jun 10, 2024 12:25:41 GMT -5
The Nuggets need to improve by landing a good vet min big and a good player for the tax MLE. Won't be easy. Expecting guys like Strawther/Tyson/Pickett and even Watson to contribute heavily to a playoff team is rose colored glasses stuff. We saw with Watson how inconsistent he was. He really needs to work on his body and get stronger. He still has a ton of potential but he has a lto of work to do. So you are assuming KCP is gone, I guess. If we keep KCP, we do not have the taxpayer MLE to use since we are in second apron. Which would you rather have? KCP and no MLE to hand out, or no KCP and the tax MLE? Count me in for the former.
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Post by scooter on Jun 10, 2024 12:27:16 GMT -5
I agree because they just had no bench outside of Braun and what he brings for defense and hustle. But no playable bench bigs and with the loss of BB, little ballhandling/scoring off the bench. So the Nuggets just had some real holes this season and were not as good. Now we get to wait and see if they can upgrade their roster over the summer and/or by next season’s trade deadline. You write as though we have no potential for an internal upgrade, and it will have to come from this summer’s moves or the trade deadline next year. I remind you Watson made strides in his first full NBA season, and is a good player off the bench even if not the modern prototype 3&D wing. His 3 needs to get more consistent, but there is no reason not to think that will happen. Kid is not only a really good athlete, he’s a smart athlete. And by all accounts, a really hard worker. Our internal upgrade will be Watson turning into a more consistent 20 mpg pest off the bench. Don’t forget that. As for the rest of the bench, I’d agree they are unproven, but it’s not like there is no hope for them and none will be ready for playoffs in 2025. Strawther has a real shot to contribute, and while I have my doubts, you can’t just write him off. Tyson and Pickett are suspects more than prospects, and I wouldn’t miss them being dealt away with Zeke and a pick. But we do have a couple guys on our roster who can contribute to Postseason 2025. Sure Watson presumably will continue to improve, although based on everything we’ve seen, it’s likely to be — like Braun — as a 2/3, just a somewhat different one. Watson came to the Nuggets raw as steak tartare, and we need to be patient. It could easily take a couple more years for him to put significantly more polish on his offensive game. Strawther is a SG as well. So we haven’t really identified anyone in the pipeline who can help us going forward as either a big or as a ballhandling type of guard. Cancar might be able to help a little at the 4 as a sort of poor man’s PJ Washington.
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Post by GBG on Jun 10, 2024 12:39:33 GMT -5
You write as though we have no potential for an internal upgrade, and it will have to come from this summer’s moves or the trade deadline next year. I remind you Watson made strides in his first full NBA season, and is a good player off the bench even if not the modern prototype 3&D wing. His 3 needs to get more consistent, but there is no reason not to think that will happen. Kid is not only a really good athlete, he’s a smart athlete. And by all accounts, a really hard worker. Our internal upgrade will be Watson turning into a more consistent 20 mpg pest off the bench. Don’t forget that. As for the rest of the bench, I’d agree they are unproven, but it’s not like there is no hope for them and none will be ready for playoffs in 2025. Strawther has a real shot to contribute, and while I have my doubts, you can’t just write him off. Tyson and Pickett are suspects more than prospects, and I wouldn’t miss them being dealt away with Zeke and a pick. But we do have a couple guys on our roster who can contribute to Postseason 2025. Sure Watson presumably will continue to improve, although based on everything we’ve seen, it’s likely to be — like Braun — as a 2/3, just a somewhat different one. Watson came to the Nuggets raw as steak tartare, and we need to be patient. It could easily take a couple more years for him to put significantly more polish on his offensive game. Strawther is a SG as well. So we haven’t really identified anyone in the pipeline who can help us going forward as either a big or as a ballhandling type of guard. Cancar might be able to help a little at the 4 as a sort of poor man’s PJ Washington. Watson has good handles and passing skills. And he’s versatile as a 2-4. I would bet he will still come in for Gordon as Malone used him that way this season.
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Post by LotharBraunBrownBryant on Jun 10, 2024 13:11:50 GMT -5
I think of Braun/Watson/Vlatko as a suitable 2/3/4 bench rotation, and Strawther seems like he could play in small lineups. Reggie is a subpar 1 but not absolutely terrible. Really need a 5 who can set screens and rebound.
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Post by GBG on Jun 10, 2024 13:29:32 GMT -5
I think of Braun/Watson/Vlatko as a suitable 2/3/4 bench rotation, and Strawther seems like he could play in small lineups. Reggie is a subpar 1 but not absolutely terrible. Really need a 5 who can set screens and rebound. Yep. We may not have a Naz Reid type or 6MOY candidate, but our bench is better than what is being portrayed on this thread right now. It’s a young bench, to be sure, and lacks top end outside shooting, but they have fundamentals and defensive skills if healthy. We just need one more vet who can shoot and handle as a backup PG, and an inexpensive center who can play.
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Post by TNF on Jun 10, 2024 13:31:38 GMT -5
I saw PWatt as a guy who started the year playing harder than anyone else, and during that time really being an over-achiever. Once he started to play as hard as everyone else, his skills dropped fro potential star to good-defense role-player.
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Post by GBG on Jun 10, 2024 13:37:42 GMT -5
I saw PWatt as a guy who started the year playing harder than anyone else, and during that time really being an over-achiever. Once he started to play as hard as everyone else, his skills dropped fro potential star to good-defense role-player. It’s a long season for a young guy who has played so little in recent years. Very hard for a kid like Watson to keep up that hair on fire energy all season.
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Post by TNF on Jun 10, 2024 13:52:08 GMT -5
Totally understandable, but is the reason he wasn't as good as we initially saw. There were a couple of Nuggets/T-Pups games where the Pups came out with "hair on fire energy". We never saw that from the Nuggets this playoff season. Malone had made that level almost impossible among the starters.
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Post by Ring on Jun 10, 2024 15:50:27 GMT -5
The Nuggets need to improve by landing a good vet min big and a good player for the tax MLE. Won't be easy. Expecting guys like Strawther/Tyson/Pickett and even Watson to contribute heavily to a playoff team is rose colored glasses stuff. We saw with Watson how inconsistent he was. He really needs to work on his body and get stronger. He still has a ton of potential but he has a lto of work to do. So you are assuming KCP is gone, I guess. If we keep KCP, we do not have the taxpayer MLE to use since we are in second apron. Which would you rather have? KCP and no MLE to hand out, or no KCP and the tax MLE? Count me in for the former. In a perfect world I'd want KCP back for 2 years but I think he's going to get a better deal from another team. I think the Nuggets are going to have Braun start at the 2 next year.
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Post by Ring on Jun 10, 2024 15:51:47 GMT -5
Next year is going to be very interesting because it's very clear based off Malone's comments that he knows the starters were dead tired and worn out. They'll get an extra month of rest this year when compared to last which is nice. We'll see who plays in the Olympics. I don't really trust Malone to adjust because he is very stubborn and doesn't like losing games. It's clear that the starters were dead in the playoffs though, which is what makes the Spurs loss all that more infuriating. However, I don't believe this team fully rested wins a ring this year. We will never know if we win it or not, if fully rested but one thing is for sure:the only team that would stand a chance in beating Boston would be Denver. Also if Tatum were to average 17pts on 31%fg and 28% from 3 and Brown averages 21pt while shooting 27% from 3 we take both games in Boston to start the series Are we 100% positive that Denver beats a fully healthy Minnesota last year? Last years Nuggets team was much better and they struggled with no Reid/McDaniels. I just think at the end of the day the Nuggets can't win unless Murray plays at an elite level and I don't think he was ever going to do that against the Minnesota defense of this year.
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Post by passtheballquick on Jun 10, 2024 17:36:02 GMT -5
We will never know if we win it or not, if fully rested but one thing is for sure:the only team that would stand a chance in beating Boston would be Denver. Also if Tatum were to average 17pts on 31%fg and 28% from 3 and Brown averages 21pt while shooting 27% from 3 we take both games in Boston to start the series Are we 100% positive that Denver beats a fully healthy Minnesota last year? Last years Nuggets team was much better and they struggled with no Reid/McDaniels. I just think at the end of the day the Nuggets can't win unless Murray plays at an elite level and I don't think he was ever going to do that against the Minnesota defense of this year. We smashed Minnesota last year. We took 3:0 lead with all comfortable wins. After that it's normal that the energy goes down. And you're somewhat right about Jamal as we lost game 4 because of him. But he doesn't need to be elite in every game. He just needs to be above G-leage level. This year in game 7 him and Jokic scored 70 and assisted on the other 20 points both shooting around 50%. That's more elite than I expected. We got nothing from mpj and he's the one that needs to go. If it wasn't for a historic choking in game 7 (never happened in the history of the game before) we beat Minnesota this year again with a weaker team so yes we're 100% sure we beat healthy minny last year
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