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Post by Ring on May 17, 2023 12:12:06 GMT -5
Until I see the Nuggets solve a roaming AD, I'm not going to believe it. It's now the biggest pivot point in the series. Game 2 is a must win IMO. Jeesuz Ring — your panicky negativity is something to behold. You don’t think Jokic can figure out how to deal with being guarded by Rui Hachimura? Hand up, I'm in full blown panic mode after that game. I think Jokic will figure out Hachimura, but that's not the only key to the matchup. If Jokic figures out Rui and AD is still able to roam in the paint, Jokic's efficiency is going to drop, the Nuggets will score way less at the rim and AD will be super fresh on the offensive end. I simply do not trust AG on the offensive end. Everyone keeps pointing to Jokic/AG screens and all that will do is get Hachimura on AG and Jokic on AD at the top of the key. And then Hachimura can just roam. It doesn't solve anything. Braun and Green were absolute disasters last night and they're going to continue to get more minutes than they should because Malone doesn't trust MPJ to the level he needs to. There's no reason why MPJ shouldn't be playing 38-40 minutes a night at this point. He's not the defensive weak link. He's the best floor spacer in basketball. He's a very good rebounder. It's a joke. Jeff Green should be getting about 10 MPG. He almost played double that last night. |
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Post by Ring on May 17, 2023 12:13:15 GMT -5
fully agreed scooter. Jokic got a touch overzealous because he clearly understands AD as the help is bad news and wanted to return to the status quo, which played into LA's hands. I have less than 1% doubt he's going to adjust and make light work of Rui if Ham wants to start him and make him the primary Jokic defender. I recall one late game possession in which Murray fed Jokic in the post while the other three Nuggets were all on the other side of the court. Murray’s defender doubled Jokic, and after passing the ball Murray drifted to the three point line completely — and I mean completely — undefended, and Jokic tried passing it inside through the entire Lakers’ defense instead of making the easiest pass possible to an open Murray. Jokic was also quite punchy in the post-game press conference. I think he was exhausted and I don’t blame him. The Nuggets offensive game plan was to run at every opportunity and tire the Lakers — especially Lebron — out. It also tired Jokic out but I have faith he can recover. Hachimura has been absurdly good this postseason in light of his 4 year career of ineffectiveness. The Wizards dumped him for practically nothing (typical of the usually dumb eastern conf) and he’s really helped the Lakers. But I’m sure there is a limit to his contribution, and the Nuggets will make adjustments. There was also a play late where Jokic forced a floater over AD/Rui instead of passing to a wide open Bruce in the corner. It's nit-picky and realistically I think Jokic was just trying to put the team on his back. |
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Post by Ring on May 17, 2023 12:15:36 GMT -5
Taking Murray out offense/defense is a slam dunk when he visibly had no legs or energy and was getting picked on every play. Van Gundy was perplexed he didn't do it. Draymond was perplexed he didn't do it. You had TOs to get him back in on offense. He's sick. Have a conversation with the man about managing his energy, especially late, to ensure the best chance to win. It's not outlandish. It's the WCF. Even Jokic is not immune to offense/defense subs. I have no clue why Murray would be exempt from that if he's the mark and getting cooked for an entire half. I'm a little perplexed why Malone was so defiant about "we switch other than Nikola" after the game. I'm certain they'll adjust for Game 2, but this is what LeBron does. Anybody with a shitty podcast knew LeBron would hunt Murray. He did it against Curry - down to the scoring at will, foul trouble, and the tired legs that affected his shooting. Need to be much better prepared for that in Game 2. Murray is exempt because Malone loves him. It's as simple as that. People can argue that it's because he's the 2nd best player, he makes max money, etc. MPJ gets pulled all the time for defensive purposes which makes us weaker on the glass AND he's been a better defender than Murray all year long. All regular season, all playoffs, etc. The Nuggets have to find a way to hide Murray. The only way I can think of doing that is to go under on Lebron. Why we were allowing a switch so easily is still unfathomable to me. It's Lebron f***ing James. Why was our gameplan to switch a PG onto him? |
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Post by wizardofcozz on May 17, 2023 12:30:38 GMT -5
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Post by nuggetshipster on May 17, 2023 12:38:14 GMT -5
I thought there was no timeline where Jokic is bothered by AD help defense? But now its bad news Erik, literally nobody said that. you're arguing a strawman. you argued that a small like Vando is capable of slowing down/bothering Jokic in a vacuum, citing Joe Johnson from like 7 years ago. all Rui did was funnel Jokic into AD... and yeah, the strategy worked for a short period of time (mostly because we played into their hands) but if Ham wants to try a small on Jokic to start G2, he's going to operate farther from the basket and try to put them in foul trouble immediately. bruh retire the strawman bit. Who is guarding Joker? You know AS wants no piece of him and, even if he did, Joker pulling him out to the perimeter greatly diminishes their defense. AD as a help defender could be very rough for Jokic Why cant Vando defend Jokic? Its not like Jokic have never struggled against smaller defenders there is no timeline where Jarred Vanderbilt can effectively be the primary defender on Jokic. nor can Rui Hachimura. Not sure why AD was being ignored like if you were talking about a 1 on 1 competition. But that would have been awfully confusing Stop moving the goal post. |
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Post by JB on May 17, 2023 12:56:57 GMT -5
Erik, you should actually look up what a strawman argument is so you can stop engaging in them.
I stand by the actual words I wrote. once the Nuggets adjust by either 1. removing AG from the dunker 2. having Jokic operate farther from the basket, neither Rui nor Vando will have a chance to guard him.
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Post by game on May 17, 2023 12:57:19 GMT -5
I've seen a few great one liners about wondering how the Nuggets will ever recover from such a devastating moral victory from the Lakers. Definitely the way it's being framed on ESPN, and I think that's great. I don't like the Nuggets without a chip on their shoulder. I love the idea of some of those guys (not Ham, not LeBron, but a few of the role guys) walking into Game 2 with "we figured them out" in their head.
I see fixable stuff. The fact that you blew up the notion AD 1:1 on Jokic is even a draw after one half of basketball is a great thing. Now it's just on Malone to counter Ham's counter. I would have liked to see more preparedness early for it, but you're ultimately up 1-0 in the conference finals. If LA comes out swinging in Game 2 and you can rope-a-dope them and make it 2-0, that is massive.
I think the single biggest advantage the Lakers have in this series is LeBron in clutch time making decisions is the most seasoned and trustworthy person on the court - except - if he's gassed. Then he takes bail out 3s. If the Nuggets can keep the Lakers playing from behind in this series, the more he'll have to exert.
I think there's a real possibility Game 1 is the series in a nutshell if the Nuggets end up winning. Play from ahead, the Lakers are going to come back and scare you because they have LeBron and Davis, but hopefully you've sapped them late and hold on. Go up 2-0, make them go all out to claw back to 2-2, let's say, and I favor the younger team, at home, that hasn't been playing must-win basketball for two months. Game 7 against LeBron is terrifying stuff, though. Stay ahead of LeBron, don't let LeBron control the game/series with the lead.
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Post by Ring on May 17, 2023 13:00:23 GMT -5
Erik, you should actually look up what a strawman argument is so you can stop engaging in them. I stand by the actual words I wrote. Jokic operating in the paint with AG in the dunker spot is playing into LA's hands. once the Nuggets adjust by either 1. removing AG from the dunker 2. having Jokic operate farther from the basket, neither Rui nor Vando will have a chance to guard him. There's nowhere you can put AG on the floor if you want Jokic posting up which is where he is most effective. He can face up and take contested jumpers but I don't think that's a great strategy. Him operating farther from the basket also does us no good because AD will be sitting in the paint. The only answers are either to sit AG, have Jokic take contested jumpers over Hachimura, or run 2 man game where the goal is to get Jokic shots from the mid-range. There are other things you can do such as use AG as a ball handler but that's not a role he's going to be comfortable in on this team. |
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Post by wizardofcozz on May 17, 2023 13:05:25 GMT -5
Erik, you should actually look up what a strawman argument is so you can stop engaging in them. I stand by the actual words I wrote. Jokic operating in the paint with AG in the dunker spot is playing into LA's hands. once the Nuggets adjust by either 1. removing AG from the dunker 2. having Jokic operate farther from the basket, neither Rui nor Vando will have a chance to guard him. There's nowhere you can put AG on the floor if you want Jokic posting up which is where he is most effective. He can face up and take contested jumpers but I don't think that's a great strategy. Him operating farther from the basket also does us no good because AD will be sitting in the paint. The only answers are either to sit AG, have Jokic take contested jumpers over Hachimura, or run 2 man game where the goal is to get Jokic shots from the mid-range. There are other things you can do such as use AG as a ball handler but that's not a role he's going to be comfortable in on this team. If you watch the videos from the article from the Ringer you can see it's not just AD camped out in the post it's all of em, and Lebron is sagging down on AG in the dunker's spot. Jokic misses some guys who are open especially MPJ in the corner. Now I think he wanted to try and get something at the rim, and KCP had recently missed a wide open 3 so I don't think we want to live by the 3, but it is what LAL is going to give us I think. I also think if you put Jokic in PnR you don't have to settle for jumpers because you'll have some time where Jokic has Rui trailing and it's him vs. AD 1 on 1, what I don't think will work is just parking him on the block and having him back down. IMO. |
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Post by JB on May 17, 2023 13:11:34 GMT -5
Erik, you should actually look up what a strawman argument is so you can stop engaging in them. I stand by the actual words I wrote. Jokic operating in the paint with AG in the dunker spot is playing into LA's hands. once the Nuggets adjust by either 1. removing AG from the dunker 2. having Jokic operate farther from the basket, neither Rui nor Vando will have a chance to guard him. There's nowhere you can put AG on the floor if you want Jokic posting up which is where he is most effective. He can face up and take contested jumpers but I don't think that's a great strategy. Him operating farther from the basket also does us no good because AD will be sitting in the paint. The only answers are either to sit AG, have Jokic take contested jumpers over Hachimura, or run 2 man game where the goal is to get Jokic shots from the mid-range. There are other things you can do such as use AG as a ball handler but that's not a role he's going to be comfortable in on this team. I'm really not worried about Rui Hachimura Ring. Jokic will cook him outside the paint if need be. the size differential is too much for Rui. and we should at least give the AG/Joker PnR a run. working on that 2man game was the lone silver lining of the ACL year(s). |
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Post by Ring on May 17, 2023 13:14:46 GMT -5
There's nowhere you can put AG on the floor if you want Jokic posting up which is where he is most effective. He can face up and take contested jumpers but I don't think that's a great strategy. Him operating farther from the basket also does us no good because AD will be sitting in the paint. The only answers are either to sit AG, have Jokic take contested jumpers over Hachimura, or run 2 man game where the goal is to get Jokic shots from the mid-range. There are other things you can do such as use AG as a ball handler but that's not a role he's going to be comfortable in on this team. I'm really not worried about Rui Hachimura Ring. Jokic will cook him outside the paint if need be. the size differential is too much for Rui. and we should at least give the AG/Joker PnR a run. working on that 2man game was the lone silver lining of the ACL year(s). I hope so. I f***ing hate the Lakers and cannot stomach losing to them. Last nights game was such an interesting one because everyone shot incredible. Murray, KCP, MPJ, Jokic, Brown, Reaves, Rui, Lebron, AD. This series is going to be won on the defensive side of the ball. The Nuggets HAVE to figure out how to prevent LA from generating easy looks and not turn the ball over. One of the reasons LA got hot in the 4Q was because Jokic was turning it over nonstop. Think he had 3 or 4 in the 4Q. |
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Post by wizardofcozz on May 17, 2023 13:17:59 GMT -5
I'm really not worried about Rui Hachimura Ring. Jokic will cook him outside the paint if need be. the size differential is too much for Rui. and we should at least give the AG/Joker PnR a run. working on that 2man game was the lone silver lining of the ACL year(s). I hope so. I f***ing hate the Lakers and cannot stomach losing to them. Last nights game was such an interesting one because everyone shot incredible. Murray, KCP, MPJ, Jokic, Brown, Reaves, Rui, Lebron, AD. This series is going to be won on the defensive side of the ball. The Nuggets HAVE to figure out how to prevent LA from generating easy looks and not turn the ball over. One of the reasons LA got hot in the 4Q was because Jokic was turning it over nonstop. Think he had 3 or 4 in the 4Q. Agree 100%, that's why when you look at film you have Jokic, Rui, Ad, and Lebron all hovering around the basket, AND Reaves and Schroder each have a foot in or near the paint. They are daring us to kick it out and make the open shot, when we start doing that it will open up more I think! |
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Post by scooter on May 17, 2023 13:37:11 GMT -5
I'm a little perplexed why Malone was so defiant about "we switch other than Nikola" after the game. There are “pick your poison” aspects to this. For one thing, there are few defenders who are good at getting around screens. KCP is good at it. Mikal Bridges is very good at it. Those guys are slim and quick and defense is their calling card. With most defenders, refusing to switch and fighting around screens is a recipe for picking up fouls since one cannot “blow up a screen” in the modern game. The Nuggets know that the free throw line is a big weapon for the Lakers — they have to game plan around that. The Nuggets were playing from ahead and the Lebron “back Murray down” plays were burning clock, so they likely did a bit of cost/benefit analysis and chose to switch and concede the mismatch and force Lebron to use energy playing bully ball. Malone isn’t going to be completely honest with the press. |
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Post by scooter on May 17, 2023 15:48:20 GMT -5
If you watch the videos from the article from the Ringer you can see it's not just AD camped out in the post it's all of em, and Lebron is sagging down on AG in the dunker's spot. Jokic misses some guys who are open especially MPJ in the corner. Now I think he wanted to try and get something at the rim, and KCP had recently missed a wide open 3 so I don't think we want to live by the 3, but it is what LAL is going to give us I think. I also think if you put Jokic in PnR you don't have to settle for jumpers because you'll have some time where Jokic has Rui trailing and it's him vs. AD 1 on 1, what I don't think will work is just parking him on the block and having him back down. IMO. Bingo. The last part of the Lakers’ comeback last night happened because Jokic was trying to force passes into a thicket of paint defenders. His uncharacteristically poor decision-making late was probably a combination of fatigue and wanting to take pressure off of our shooters. Jokic and the Nuggets will adapt. |
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Post by famicommander on May 17, 2023 15:55:35 GMT -5
That was the Lakers' best punch. They got 66 points on good efficiency from LeBron and AD, shot 46% from 3, and they knew they needed game 1 after winning it in both of the previous two series and then resting in game 2.
AD's offensive output has been wildly inconsistent all postseason long because they ask so much of him on defense. He can't give you 30-40 every single night and still be the best defensive player on the floor every possession. That's why he's only averaging 23, and again, that's largely against teams without any size.
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Post by famicommander on May 17, 2023 16:01:15 GMT -5
Look at AD's scoring output working forwards from game 1 of the postseason:
22 (W)
13 (L)
31 (W)
12 (W, OT)
31 (L)
16 (W)
30 (W)
11 (L)
25 (W)
23 (W)
23 (L)
17 (W)
40 (L)
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Post by sawyeral on May 17, 2023 18:13:42 GMT -5
Erik, you should actually look up what a strawman argument is so you can stop engaging in them. I stand by the actual words I wrote. Jokic operating in the paint with AG in the dunker spot is playing into LA's hands. once the Nuggets adjust by either 1. removing AG from the dunker 2. having Jokic operate farther from the basket, neither Rui nor Vando will have a chance to guard him. There's nowhere you can put AG on the floor if you want Jokic posting up which is where he is most effective. He can face up and take contested jumpers but I don't think that's a great strategy. Him operating farther from the basket also does us no good because AD will be sitting in the paint. The only answers are either to sit AG, have Jokic take contested jumpers over Hachimura, or run 2 man game where the goal is to get Jokic shots from the mid-range. There are other things you can do such as use AG as a ball handler but that's not a role he's going to be comfortable in on this team. So you can’t put AG up high and weak side screen for the other 3 shooters? If AD is gonna spy jokic, who’s gonna switch/hedge on an AG pin down for Kcp or MPJ? Jokic might be the best guy that ever lived at finding open guys ANYWHERE with his back to the basket. There are worries here, but this is not the silver bullet laker fans are hoping for. |
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Post by inyourmind on May 17, 2023 19:22:43 GMT -5
Taking Murray out offense/defense is a slam dunk when he visibly had no legs or energy and was getting picked on every play. Van Gundy was perplexed he didn't do it. Draymond was perplexed he didn't do it. You had TOs to get him back in on offense. He's sick. Have a conversation with the man about managing his energy, especially late, to ensure the best chance to win. It's not outlandish. It's the WCF. Even Jokic is not immune to offense/defense subs. I have no clue why Murray would be exempt from that if he's the mark and getting cooked for an entire half. I'm a little perplexed why Malone was so defiant about "we switch other than Nikola" after the game. I'm certain they'll adjust for Game 2, but this is what LeBron does. Anybody with a shitty podcast knew LeBron would hunt Murray. He did it against Curry - down to the scoring at will, foul trouble, and the tired legs that affected his shooting. Need to be much better prepared for that in Game 2. Murray is exempt because Malone loves him. It's as simple as that. Yeah. He's the 2nd option. He's currently putting up what like 26/6/5 on great shooting splits? No doubt has had his issues with consistency. Malone's tied to him. If Murray can't work out as the 2nd option it'll likely mean Malone getting fired. It's an unrealistic ask to expect Murray to be sat for extended periods of time. I think people ignore the human element of the game at times too. Sitting Murray even for a possession or two could rattle his confidence. You know your going to need him for the long haul and he'll need to figure it out defensively and build that chemistry so even doing it late in games isn't smart IMO. I always thought it was dumb was we did it with Plumlee/Jokic. You ride or die with your stars in the playoffs. Murray will be hunted defensively just like a bunch of past star PG's have been. Curry, Irving during his Cleveland run, Steve Nash his entire career, Dame, Harden etc. He'll just need to keep producing to make the trade off worth it. Same with Gordon honestly. You can't have a 19 million dollar anchor on this current team and win a ring. He's going to need to figure it out along with Jokic. |
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Post by passtheballquick on May 17, 2023 21:23:44 GMT -5
Murray was very good yesterday. 31/5/5/1/3 with only one TO shooting 60% fg and 50% from 3 is as elite as it gets. He outplayed Bron. With such a good offensive game he literally offsets all bad things on D. I don't care that LBJ was attacking him and scoring at will. At the end we won. The problem is his consistency. Had he scored 20 points on 20 shots we would've lost the game. He's our worst defender and we have to live with that. But when he's not scoring at high efficiency and still taking more shots than Jokic we're playing 4 on 5. His contributions like assists and rebounding is not enough as we need his buckets
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Post by famicommander on May 17, 2023 21:30:19 GMT -5
Murray had 3 steals, 4 defensive rebounds, and a block and he did a good job on the opposing point guards Russell and Schroeder. He got obliterated by LeBron, but that's the obvious result of a 6'8" monster forward versus a point guard. Murray is never going to be a great defender but it's hard to blame him for yesterday. We were just stupid to keep switching that.
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