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Post by famicommander on Mar 24, 2023 12:15:04 GMT -5
Speaking of Embiid's body not holding up, he had surgery on not just the right thumb but also the left index finger. Didn't even know he hurt his left hand too, but not surprising. Im glad this got bumped Embiid has already missed more games than he missed last year and there's still time for him to miss more.
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Post by GBG on Mar 24, 2023 12:18:50 GMT -5
the vast majority of MVP voters are swayed by narrative so 6er game will absolutely determine the MVP. as a matter of principle, I'm hoping Jokic beats the dog s**t out of the 6ers but winning 3x would put the Nuggets in "anything less than a championship is a total failure" mode so get ready for that. Why are YOU buying into the false narrative that “anything short of championship is failure”? That’s just dumb. Getting into the Finals would be a major success. Losing in Finals to the Buck or Celtics would be disappointing but not failure. The top Eastern teams are better than the top Western teams. The Eastern Conference is better this year, teams 1-10 or 1-4. It’s true.
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Post by JB on Mar 24, 2023 12:29:50 GMT -5
I'm "buying" into anything. I'm acknowledging reality.
if Jokic wins 3xMVP, he's going to be judged by the same metric they judged Bird, MJ, Bron and all the former greats. in the words of the great Phil Collins, that's just the way it is.
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Post by passtheballquick on Mar 24, 2023 12:30:10 GMT -5
the vast majority of MVP voters are swayed by narrative so 6er game will absolutely determine the MVP. as a matter of principle, I'm hoping Jokic beats the dog s**t out of the 6ers but winning 3x would put the Nuggets in "anything less than a championship is a total failure" mode so get ready for that. Championship or failure is already on the table so mvp or not won't change that. If Jokic doesn't win it, he'll be runner up and won't save us from bad narratives. It's not like people will forget that Jokic was right there. If Embiid ducks out Jokic and still wins it, it'll be embarrassing. I have no doubt that the whole Nuggets team will play for Jokic tomorrow and on Monday. He deserved it
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Post by scooter on Mar 24, 2023 12:38:21 GMT -5
the vast majority of MVP voters are swayed by narrative so 6er game will absolutely determine the MVP. I get the impression that votes for the biggest awards — MVP and all-NBA and DPOY— are scrutinized and the voters take it seriously, partly because there is huge money involved in the form of “supermax” contracts. I’ve heard from media members in the know that the relatively small number of people who have votes for those awards take it seriously and definitely do not vote based on who or what ESPN wants to cover. They canvass front office executives around the leaugue, confer with analytics gurus etc. That said, we’ve seen in the past that voters like to mix it up if they can and right now they can justify voting for Embiid, despite that fact that once again Jokic is way ahead according to most advanced metrics. Nobody (as in Nuggets’ ownership/management or Jokic’s agent) will complain if Embiid wins it for his first time. I’m good with Embiid playing as hard as he can in an effort to win the award. it’s probably not the smart strategy for spring success.
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Post by famicommander on Mar 24, 2023 12:39:14 GMT -5
Not one GM in the league right now would trade Jokic for Embiid and 5 first round picks.
Not one.
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Post by passtheballquick on Mar 24, 2023 12:42:27 GMT -5
the vast majority of MVP voters are swayed by narrative so 6er game will absolutely determine the MVP. I get the impression that votes for the biggest awards — MVP and all-NBA and DPOY— are scrutinized and the voters take it seriously, partly because there is huge money involved in the form of “supermax” contracts. I’ve heard from media members in the know that the relatively small number of people who have votes for those awards take it seriously and definitely do not vote based on who or what ESPN wants to cover. They canvass front office executives around the leaugue, confer with analytics gurus etc. That said, we’ve seen in the past that voters like to mix it up if they can and right now they can justify voting for Embiid, despite that fact that once again Jokic is way ahead according to most advanced metrics. Nobody (as in Nuggets’ ownership/management or Jokic’s agent) will complain if Embiid wins it for his first time. I’m good with Embiid playing as hard as he can in an effort to win the award. it’s probably not the smart strategy for spring success. The thing for Embiid is that he has to keep playing to win it. He didn't win it yet by any means and I am hearing rumors that he won't play against Nuggets. That's not going to win him mvp
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Post by scooter on Mar 24, 2023 15:35:51 GMT -5
the vast majority of MVP voters are swayed by narrative so 6er game will absolutely determine the MVP. as a matter of principle, I'm hoping Jokic beats the dog s**t out of the 6ers but winning 3x would put the Nuggets in "anything less than a championship is a total failure" mode so get ready for that. Why are YOU buying into the false narrative that “anything short of championship is failure”? That’s just dumb. Getting into the Finals would be a major success. Losing in Finals to the Buck or Celtics would be disappointing but not failure. For me — not even “disappointing” because a trip to the Finals would be the best season in Nuggets’ history. And if the team stays healthy the rest of the season, they’ll be in a position to take another shot next season as every starter is under contract and none of them are over the hill.
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Post by famicommander on Mar 24, 2023 15:38:56 GMT -5
It's sad how beaten down this fanbase is.
Championship or bust. Right now. Accept nothing less.
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Post by Ring on Mar 24, 2023 15:54:36 GMT -5
Not one GM in the league right now would trade Jokic for Embiid and 5 first round picks. Not one. I guarantee you more than half the GMs would do that trade.
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Post by inyourmind on Mar 24, 2023 17:25:13 GMT -5
I think if Jokic wins it again the narrative will depend on how he plays in the playoffs. Given the West Jokic has to be able to carry us to the WCF. I agree with it too. Jokic needs to put the team on his back and win rounds 1/2 if this team falls apart. I think from there outside of your typical first take bullshit which most agree is dumb it'll come down to how he plays. If he goes off and the team lets him down in the conference finals I think it'll be fine. Some will give him s**t, some will point to the supporting cast. If we lose to Milwaukee/Boston and Jokic has an A+ finals? I think he'll be fine.
Gotta let things play out. If Jokic averages 23 points and has an off series and Murray has a big series than yeah it's going to be an absolute s**t show. If Jokic pops off and the supporting cast struggles than as long as the Nuggets make the conference finals/finals and Jokic goes off than I think it'll be no different than what it is today. He'll have the doubters and the people who ignore context but that's not going away until he wins a ring and a big chunk of those people probably won't be satisfied until he has 2-3 rings.
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Post by nuggetshipster on Mar 24, 2023 17:26:08 GMT -5
the vast majority of MVP voters are swayed by narrative so 6er game will absolutely determine the MVP. as a matter of principle, I'm hoping Jokic beats the dog s**t out of the 6ers but winning 3x would put the Nuggets in "anything less than a championship is a total failure" mode so get ready for that. Jokic is the MVP if he wins MVP or not so it kinda is ring or total faliure
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Post by nuggetshipster on Mar 24, 2023 17:27:19 GMT -5
Embiid has already missed more games than he missed last year and there's still time for him to miss more. He like 6games behind Jokic and people of NT been begging for load management If Embiid goes from no MVP to MVP then you wont get away with saying he is declining
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Post by nuggetshipster on Mar 24, 2023 17:28:39 GMT -5
I'm "buying" into anything. I'm acknowledging reality. if Jokic wins 3xMVP, he's going to be judged by the same metric they judged Bird, MJ, Bron and all the former greats. in the words of the great Phil Collins, that's just the way it is. Why are people scared of having a Bird, MJ, Bron on the nuggets?
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Post by nuggetshipster on Mar 24, 2023 17:29:59 GMT -5
It's sad how beaten down this fanbase is. Championship or bust. Right now. Accept nothing less. Amen
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Post by duh88 on Mar 24, 2023 23:52:43 GMT -5
I'm sorry but Embiid just isn't the MVP. Great player - but not MVP.
To me, it's either Jokic or Giannis.
I really don't get where Embiid gets the love?
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Post by famicommander on Mar 24, 2023 23:54:18 GMT -5
I'm sorry but Embiid just isn't the MVP. Great player - but not MVP. To me, it's either Jokic or Giannis. I really don't get where Embiid gets the love? He spends most of his time campaigning for it and Philly as a market is bigger than Denver and Milwaukee combined.
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Post by nuggetshipster on Mar 25, 2023 2:21:01 GMT -5
People saying 34/10/5 on 55% shooting isnt MVP level. Yikes the homerism
I also think Jokic is better but that aint a good look
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Post by famicommander on Mar 25, 2023 3:01:04 GMT -5
People saying 34/10/5 on 55% shooting isnt MVP level. Yikes the homerism I also think Jokic is better but that aint a good look If Jokic is better then, by definition, Embiid's numbers aren't MVP level. There's only one MVP and Jokic is a substantially better player. It's really that simple. It's not like there's some arbitrary statistical threshold that a certain number of guys meet to be "MVP level" and then you just pick one of their names out of a hat. There's exactly one player in the league whose numbers are MVP level and it's clearly Jokic. WS/48: Jokic .316, Embiid .264 VORP: Jokic 8.5, Embiid 5.8 OBPM: Jokic 8.8, Embiid 6.8 DBPM: Jokic 4.4, Embiid 2.4 BPM: 13.2, Embiid 9.2 PER: Jokic 31.9, Embiid 31.5 TS%: Jokic .715, Embiid .654 ORTG: Jokic 136, Embiid 124 DRTG: Jokic 110, Embiid 108 P/M per 100: Jokic +12.6, Embiid +9.8 Net Plus Minus on/off per 100: Jokic 24.1, Embiid 9.7 RAPTOR WAR: Jokic 19.9, Embiid 11.5 Total overall RAPTOR: Jokic 14.6, Embiid 8.2 Offensive RAPTOR: Jokic 10.4, Embiid 4.2 Defensive RAPTOR: Jokic 4.3, Embiid 4.0 Total On/Off RAPTOR: Jokic 13.3, Embiid 6.0 Offensive On/Off RAPTOR: Jokic 11.8, Embiid 2.0 Defensive On/Off RAPTOR: Jokic 1.5, Embiid 3.9 Total Box Score RAPTOR: Jokic 14.1, Embiid 8.4 Offensive Box Score RAPTOR: Jokic 9.4, Embiid 4.5 Defensive Box Score RAPTOR: Jokic 4.7, Embiid 3.9 The advanced metrics show Jokic blowing him away in every offensive category and beating him in every defensive category except 2. While playing on a higher seeded team and missing fewer games. It really shouldn't even be a discussion. The only reason it is one is because of this narrative that Jokic shouldn't win three in a row.
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Post by nuggetshipster on Mar 25, 2023 3:13:41 GMT -5
Welcome to the NBA lmao
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