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Post by darkmatter on May 28, 2009 1:41:56 GMT -5
[quoteWell will you look at that? Even a Cavs fan knows the Nuggets got screwed in this game.] Go figure...a Cavs fan rooting for the WEAKER team..imagine that!! The Cavs have their own problems (I still KNOW they will win the ECFs!!!)...but they know the Lake Show is BETTER!! [/quote] If the Lakers somehow beat the Nuggets, and the Cavs beat the Magics, King James will finally be crown. Kobe will be denied again and cry. Phil Jackson won't come back and so is Odom.
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Post by callmeking on May 28, 2009 1:53:59 GMT -5
Go to the Warriors board. They just think we played a stupid endgame. Same on Spurstalk. Our rep. on boards I visit is generally "Very talented but low BB IQ (except for Billups)". LAUGH OUT LOUD
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larulez
Monte Towe Benchwarmer
Posts: 20
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Post by larulez on May 28, 2009 1:55:50 GMT -5
[If the Lakers somehow beat the Nuggets, and the Cavs beat the Magics, King James will finally be crown. Kobe will be denied again and cry. Phil Jackson won't come back and so is Odom. /code]
I will ignore the lack of education and the bad grammar..
you may be right..Odom won't be back..outside of that...continue with the English 101 lessons!!!
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Post by darkmatter on May 28, 2009 2:00:36 GMT -5
[If the Lakers somehow beat the Nuggets, and the Cavs beat the Magics, King James will finally be crown. Kobe will be denied again and cry. Phil Jackson won't come back and so is Odom. /code]
I will ignore the lack of education and the bad grammar..
you may be right..Odom won't be back..outside of that...continue with the English 101 lessons!!![/quote]
You know, I could care less about grammar and spelling at this point. If I wanted to, I could take my time and edit my silly mistakes. It's been a while since I got my BA in Business Administration. In time, when you don't write essays or memos on a consistent basis, your skills will diminish.
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Post by The Carterminator on May 28, 2009 2:15:43 GMT -5
Go to the Warriors board. They just think we played a stupid endgame. Same on Spurstalk. Our rep. on boards I visit is generally "Very talented but low BB IQ (except for Billups)". I'm not talking about what our rep is with other boards, nor do I care. I'm talking about the refs being a factor in this loss. Saying " we lost ONLY because we played a stupid endgame" and saying " we lost because we played a stupid endgame AND the refs also fucked us up" are two different things. So are you really saying that everyone of them thought that the Nuggets didn't get a crapload of s**t from the refs? Seriously?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2009 3:13:18 GMT -5
so how did the game end? i was watching and then i guess ESPN network totally switched programs after the third period! i was pissed! they had some stupid referee whistle blowing contest. all the refs were wearing yellow jerseys. it was weird. there was a good game on too. :/
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slowjoe
Skita's Pizza Delivery Guy
Posts: 8
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Post by slowjoe on May 28, 2009 3:39:58 GMT -5
the f***ing refs robbed the nuggets out of this game. did you see how kobe bryant was kissing the refs ass. kobe bryant is probally sucking the refs dick as i type this.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2009 3:49:49 GMT -5
that whole point thing he did at pau after his interview was priceless douche bagness. im glad nobody on our team is that gay.
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Post by callmeking on May 28, 2009 4:02:54 GMT -5
I'm watching the 4th now on ESPN and there were 6 killer plays that cost us the game and it wasn't the refs
1.Nene miss layup when he should've dunked it
2.A great out of bounds play for Billups and he miss a wide opened 3
3. 3 on 2 fastbreak, Chauncey pass to JR for an open 3 and he miss
4. Billups allow Kmart to take a floater
5. Billups allow Kmart to take a floater
5. Carmelo and LK gets confused on who to guard Kobe and he pass to Odom for a 3 pt play
Those plays destroyed us.
3 calls by the refs that killed us
1.Lakers throw it away, but they call an invisible holding foul on Billups
2. Nene is trying to get post up position and they call an offensive foul, with a tech
3.Gasol OBVIOUS charge was called a blocking foul and Nene fouled out.
Even with the no calls. Those plays killed us
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Post by scooter on May 28, 2009 8:58:21 GMT -5
In other words, you think that taking Billups out of the game and limiting his aggressiveness early on and completely preventing another very important player in Nene to get any rythm and then taking him out of the game for good does not count as costing us the game? If so then you sure do have put much higher expectations on this team than I did. There is no way to quantify those things. Really? Chew on this: Nuggets with Nene (26 minutes) = +5 Nuggets without Nene (22 minutes) = -14 Pretty huge difference don't you think. Nene is arguably a top 5 center in this league (behind only Howard, Gasol, Duncan, and Yao) when you consider all-around game -- post-scoring, passing, ballhandling, mid-range shot, free throw shooting, post defense, pick and roll defense, help defense anywhere on the court, rebounding, steals (Nene may be the best center in the league in that category), blocking and challenging shots, running the court, wearing out opposing bigs with physical play and strength. When the refs took him out of the game last night with multiple bad calls, it completely changed what we could do on both ends of the court. The guy just gets reffed like a rookie when he's twice the player than guys who have played in the allstar game in the last 10 years (Jamal Magloire anyone?). Those ridiculous calls (most of which were before he "lost his composure") completely changed the game and gave us little chance to win. Not no chance, but little chance. Bottom line.
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Post by bundo's ghost on May 28, 2009 9:04:45 GMT -5
We should've played DJ, too. He had a +/- of +4, the second highest on the team. Plus/minus is a stat that shouldn't be taken seriously. Nene's offensive production was almost nonexistent. 1-3 FG from the floor and a blown lay-up that could've put us in position to win the game. As far as Nene's defensive production goes, Pau Gasol has made Nene his b*tch the entire series. Top 5 Center my ss. Even if he is anywhere close to the elite at his position, it's because the center position is watered down and talentless for the most part. He has the potential to be an elite center, but the guy is as inconsistent as they come. Rebounding? Blocking and challenging shots? LMAO.
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Post by scooter on May 28, 2009 9:20:28 GMT -5
We should've played DJ, too. He had a +/- of +4, the second highest on the team. Plus/minus is a stat that shouldn't be taken seriously. Nene's offensive production was almost nonexistent. 1-3 FG from the floor and a blown lay-up that could've put us in position to win the game. As far as Nene's defensive production goes, Pau Gasol has made Nene his b*tch the entire series. Top 5 Center my ss. Even if he is anywhere close to the elite at his position, it's because the center position is watered down and talentless for the most part. He has the potential to be an elite center, but the guy is as inconsistent as they come. Rebounding? Blocking and challenging shots? LMAO. Sorry, but you don't know what you're talking about. First, Nene played the whole game in foul trouble, so it has a pretty big effect on his numbers. Second, big guys have a big effect on the game without regard to their own numbers. That's why teams still play big guys who's stats look like crap. Compare Erick Dampier's (who isn't half the player Nene is) numbers to Jason Terry's. So why don't they just bury Dampier on the bench and play Terry 40 minutes a game? There are reasons you are not taking account. Other guys become effective because of the presence of big guys who set screens, block bigs away from guys driving the lane, force the D to sag into the paint to avoid offensive rebounds, etc. etc. Nene's passing ability, steal ability, all-around defense, post game, screens, boards, ability to run the floor, physical play etc. all set things up for other players in ways you don't account for. KMart and Andersen are basically just hustle players. They can't do a lot of the things Nene does, including tire out Gasol with pure strength, which is a factor in this series. There is reason teams continue to play big men who don't have the skills of smaller players (although Nene does have some of those skills such as passing, steals, ballhandling). Talk to someone in the NBA and they'll explain it to you. If you don't believe it, point out which "small ball" team is still playing in the playoffs.
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Post by NightHiker on May 28, 2009 10:09:35 GMT -5
What I intended to state as unquantifiable was the effect that particular calls made at particular junctures in the game. And the fact that if you think you can't say that ALL those calls together helped us lose the game THEN you can't say that they DIDN'T help us lose the game either still holds true. This is a matter of opinion in which we obviously disagree. Stop creating your own antagonist arguments to demolish. No one here said the refs knew exactly what to do and when - I don't believe in ESP. By now I think it's clear my argument is not even close to that. That's what you are trying to make my argument be. All I am saying is that the refs were clearly with the intent too kill or injure the Nuggets, and the opportunities showed up. Continuing with my guns analogy from before, what you are saying is that if someone shoots you and happen to hit you in the head, unless they had planned to hit you in the head they were not planning to hurt you... That's absurd. The refs didn't have to know where and when exactly to hit the Nuggets, as long as they seize the opportunities that appear over the course of the game, and there are ALWAYS plenty. There was the opportunity to take Nene out on cheap calls, and they clearly took it. You could argue that one accidental call can always happen - but as many as three stupid calls on the same player over the course of one game (while not calling about anything on the player covering him - only one foul on Gasol?) is enough to presume malice over just sheer incompetence. And it's not like they were trying to make the CLIPPERS win over the Nuggets. We are talking about the Lakers - they are a pretty good team, they don't need much help to win over us. I don't know what is so hard to understand about this: YES, the Nuggets could have won, and the fact they committed stupid mistakes might have cost them the win if they had not happened. BUT the officiating ALSO had an influence on both the DIRECT result and in our players actions, as mistakes got compounded with the unfair calls and obviously generated more desperation than would be needed on a fairly called game. One final rock to put over this argument is this question: how much do you think we would have blown the Lakers by if the calls were inverted? If, let's say, they take Gasol out by calling cheap calls on him, how much do you think the Lakers can hang on with the Nuggets (And making it clear so you don't distort my argument again, I'm not saying taking Gasol out is the same as taking Nene out - just using a similar weighted hindrance to what we had because of the calls, including Billups, Nene, etc.)? If the calls were inverted, would that be enough too make us win, despite our mistakes (the Lakers commited a lot of mistakes as well, but they won...)? If yes, then the reffing had an important influence, PERIOD.
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Post by jahshawn on May 28, 2009 10:21:54 GMT -5
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Post by planaria on May 28, 2009 10:28:50 GMT -5
I'm watching the 4th now on ESPN and there were 6 killer plays that cost us the game and it wasn't the refs 1.Nene miss layup when he should've dunked it Nene clearly avoid the contact with Gasol because the way refs were doing. It was a smart decision, IMO. If he had tried to dunk over Gasol, refs would surely whistle a OF or at least credit Gasol for a clean block (where he actually wouldnt even reach Nenê´s hand). The decision gave him a couple of seconds more before be finally fouled out. Just go check every Melo try to go agressive to the rim...
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Post by Tydru on May 28, 2009 10:57:30 GMT -5
We should've played DJ, too. He had a +/- of +4, the second highest on the team. Plus/minus is a stat that shouldn't be taken seriously. Did you watch the game? Jones was terribad. First you say Jones should have played more because of his +/-, then say the stat you're quoting shouldn't be taken seriously.
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Post by Tydru on May 28, 2009 10:59:41 GMT -5
4. Billups allow Kmart to take a floater 5. Billups allow Kmart to take a floater 5. Carmelo and LK gets confused on who to guard Kobe and he pass to Odom for a 3 pt play Chauncey can be blamed and credited for a lot... but blaming other players' shot selection on him is the height of retardation. Did KMart have to fill out a form to request express written consent from Billups to take those shots? While your second #5 is true, that wasn't a foul... at all. There was zero contact.
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Post by blagrange on May 28, 2009 11:09:30 GMT -5
[quoteWell will you look at that? Even a Cavs fan knows the Nuggets got screwed in this game.] Go figure...a Cavs fan rooting for the WEAKER team..imagine that!! The Cavs have their own problems (I still KNOW they will win the ECFs!!!)...but they know the Lake Show is BETTER!! [/quote] I am going to feed this troll. Have you even watched the games in this series? Denver the weaker team? You do realize that LA stole game 1 don't you? Then Game 3 could have gone either way as well as the blowout we delivered to your "stronger" team in game 5. Nuggs have led in this series allot more than the Lakers and on the most part have controlled the pace of the game. LAst night wa the only game that LA took us off our game for short periods of time. We are going to win Game 6 and I am sure you will dissapear after that only to return if the Lakers are able to win game 7.
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Post by NightHiker on May 28, 2009 11:16:13 GMT -5
We should've played DJ, too. He had a +/- of +4, the second highest on the team. Plus/minus is a stat that shouldn't be taken seriously. Did you watch the game? Jones was terribad. First you say Jones should have played more because of his +/-, then say the stat you're quoting shouldn't be taken seriously. He was counterarguing Scooter's point that with Nene we were +5 and without him we were -14 using Jones +/- number. It wasn't really successful, because what Scooter was doing was comparing both on and off court numbers, not just on court like he did with Jones - I go out on a limb and bet we probably got a higher +/- number with Jones out of court, or at least not nearly as bad as the one without Nene. And if you factor in the season numbers Scooter has an even stronger case, since Nene is our third player in +/- on/off court (Jr is first and Melo second), while Jones is close to last.
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Post by ruru on May 28, 2009 13:39:43 GMT -5
There is no way to quantify those things. Really? Chew on this: Nuggets with Nene (26 minutes) = +5 Nuggets without Nene (22 minutes) = -14 Pretty huge difference don't you think. Nene is arguably a top 5 center in this league (behind only Howard, Gasol, Duncan, and Yao) when you consider all-around game -- post-scoring, passing, ballhandling, mid-range shot, free throw shooting, post defense, pick and roll defense, help defense anywhere on the court, rebounding, steals (Nene may be the best center in the league in that category), blocking and challenging shots, running the court, wearing out opposing bigs with physical play and strength. When the refs took him out of the game last night with multiple bad calls, it completely changed what we could do on both ends of the court. The guy just gets reffed like a rookie when he's twice the player than guys who have played in the allstar game in the last 10 years (Jamal Magloire anyone?). Those ridiculous calls (most of which were before he "lost his composure") completely changed the game and gave us little chance to win. Not no chance, but little chance. Bottom line. I'll agree with that. He got another terrible whsitle last night. But it's not a conspiracy.
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