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Post by anon on May 28, 2009 0:00:54 GMT -5
I think the point is that LK not getting enough touches is probably not the reason we lost.
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Post by ruru on May 28, 2009 0:02:17 GMT -5
Yeah, I don't see the need to pick on LK. He's played his best basketball of the year at the right time.
We are above scapegoats for fucks's sake.
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Post by Break 'Em Off LK! (H.K.) on May 28, 2009 0:05:15 GMT -5
When nobody was really on EXCEPT LK in the 4th when he drops 7 points in a couple minutes, we do what we usually do and ignore him. What? We needed his offense and he was ready to go off. Instead, Melo is forcing shots on 2 or 3 guys and NOT EVEN GETTING THE BALL TO THE RIM and Chauncey is forcing passes to guys that he can barely get the ball to when LK is standing wide open! I don't care if I'm a homer- in this case I'm right. And LK could be droppin 12-14 per in 20 minutes versus these guys with a few touches (a couple threes and a couple layups to start with)... but when he does hit a trey he may not see a ball for another 5 minutes. seriously you watching these games? Are you watching Kleiza on the defensive end? HE IS A DISASTER. A JOKE. Look when we had him in and were clawing back he's on Kobe and kobe has the ball. What does he do? He goes over to Derek Fisher who Melo is on leaving one of the best players in basketball history wide open, not even in the way of a passing lane. He's able to pass it from the three to under the hoop for an easy layup. Melo is cussing him as he has to run and try and get to Kobe in time. I BEG YOU, PLEASE watch LK everytime down the defensive court and see just how bad it is, i wouldnt say he's the worst defender on our team, i'd say he might be in the NBA. Do you watch the games? I did and I saw a guy get 7 in a couple minutes and get TOTALLY IGNORED while Melo forced over 2 and 3 guys AND while Chauncey forced it to other people while LK was wide open, while none of those Billups was forcing it too was hot. As for D, my post had nothing to do with D and I don't even know why you brought it up. Last game, he played several minutes and his man never scored once on him that I can recall. Yeah, he left Kobe while Melo was running at Kobe and then he and Melo left him. Not just LK, who left AFTER Melo was running right at Melo. Anyhow, Kobe didn't even shoot the shot! And what if he did? What does that have to do with anything I posted in regards to LK not getting any touches down the stretch when we obviously need some offense from him? And your assertion that he may be the worst defender in the entire league? Seriously, that is absurd and you know it.
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Post by bmelo on May 28, 2009 0:06:44 GMT -5
Might not be the reason. L.K dont really need touches. Even tho he has been open, AND HAS BEEN MAKING HIS SHOTS UNLIKE BILLUPS AND J.R
All we need is him on the floor, and it spreads out offense out. Almost every game so far we lost leads cause our offense being stiff and nowhere to work. I seen J.R drive and had two people block him with that lineup. Cause they didnt worry bout noone but him
I seen with the small lineup. Melo blew right past Walton who was guarding him one on one cause everybody focused on our shooters. Melo missed the layup though
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Post by jimijam28 on May 28, 2009 0:07:11 GMT -5
we play stupid in at the end of 3rd /start of 4th,, but we still play til the end- so nobody cant say we dont have heart. nug will win big friday,, and than we just role the dice in gm 7
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Post by amazing grace & Chuck on May 28, 2009 0:08:12 GMT -5
seriously you watching these games? Are you watching Kleiza on the defensive end? HE IS A DISASTER. A JOKE. Look when we had him in and were clawing back he's on Kobe and kobe has the ball. What does he do? He goes over to Derek Fisher who Melo is on leaving one of the best players in basketball history wide open, not even in the way of a passing lane. He's able to pass it from the three to under the hoop for an easy layup. Melo is cussing him as he has to run and try and get to Kobe in time. I BEG YOU, PLEASE watch LK everytime down the defensive court and see just how bad it is, i wouldnt say he's the worst defender on our team, i'd say he might be in the NBA. Do you watch the games? I did and I saw a guy get 7 in a couple minutes and get TOTALLY IGNORED while Melo forced over 2 and 3 guys AND while Chauncey forced it to other people while LK was wide open, while none of those Billups was forcing it to was hot. As for D, my post had nothing to do with D and I don't even know why you brought it up. Last game, he played several minutes and his man never scored once on him that I can recall. Yeah, he left Kobe while Melo was running at Kobe and then he and Melo left him. Not just LK, who left AFTER Melo was running right at Melo. Anyhow, Kobe didn't even shoot the shot! And what if he did? What does that have to do with anything I posted in regards to LK not getting any touches down the stretch when we obviously need some offense from him? And your assertion that he may be the worst defender in the entire league? Seriously, that is absurd and you know it. take off the homer glasses, exactly your post wasn't about D, because LK is so bad at it you would never bring up D. He didnt leave kobe as melo ran toward him, melo had to run toward him because LK ran from him. Seriously who does that, him doing that did cause a easy bucket, if LK just stands there kobe cant make that pass, it was the easiest pass made in the history of basketball. was LK hot when he missed 2 of the three free throws he got? What about when he missed an inbound pass? He has played two good games this entire playoffs and guys who have been coming through in the clutch time and time again are suppossed to defer to him?? you dont give a guy touches that doesnt even belong on the other side of the court, JR got limited minutes because his D was so bad and now he's a decent defender, probably the best guy we have on Kobe. LK gets limited minutes because of it and manages to get worse.
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Post by amazing grace & Chuck on May 28, 2009 0:10:59 GMT -5
LK alone isnt the reason we lost, I'm not trying to make him the scapegoat. But we played a game at my house tonight where whenever LK was on the floor we only watched him on the defensive end and everyone here was blown away by just how bad he is. Watch the replay and play this game it will shock you, even for me who thought he was terrible on D I was blown away by how bad he is.
I think the refs screwed us on this one and I havent thought that all year. Chauncey getting a second foul instead of an and 1 was a huge swing, and Nene fouling out when Gasol elbow'd him were two of the worst calls I've seen this playoffs.
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Post by The Carterminator on May 28, 2009 0:13:53 GMT -5
It's impossible to rig a game without a substantial disparity in fouls called. All fouls are crucial to every sequence of the game, just as every sequence of the game is crucial to fouls called. I beg to disagree. Not all fouls are crucial to the game. The only time fouls become crucial is during the 4th quarter, especially when you're playing catch-up. You can have 10 fouls in the 1st quarter and yet you'd still have a great shot at winning the game. Another factor that would make a foul "crucial" is when a certain foul puts a KEY PLAYER in foul trouble which would take him out off the game for a significant amount of time. Like I've said, I'm not blaming this loss entirely on the refs and washing the teams hands off this loss. But the refs were a BIG FACTOR: 1) When they took Nene out in the 3rd and the 4th Quarter. 2) When they killed our comeback by bailing the Lakers with those phantom fouls and not calling the same fouls on our end. What lead? I can't remember how many points our lead was in the 4th (or if we ever had the lead at all in that quarter) But I'm pretty sure that it wasn't big enough that the Lakers wouldn't be able to catch up and overtake us with still plenty of time remaining. Basically, if we still had the lead in the 4th, what would've happened is like what happened in the Cavs-Magic last night. We would be Orlando, and they would be Cleveland. The difference would then be, Orlando was at home that time, so that certainly helped them still get the win even if the refs were clearly trying to help the Cavs win it. And since we're the visiting team, chances are higher that we would've lost anyway.
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Post by NightHiker on May 28, 2009 0:14:14 GMT -5
I've seen some calls that have really pissed me off, but tonight, even though I felt that the calls went more in the Lakers' favor, I don't think it cost us the game. In other words, you think that taking Billups out of the game and limiting his aggressiveness early on and completely preventing another very important player in Nene to get any rythm and then taking him out of the game for good does not count as costing us the game? If so then you sure do have put much higher expectations on this team than I did.
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Post by Break 'Em Off LK! (H.K.) on May 28, 2009 0:15:47 GMT -5
Do you watch the games? I did and I saw a guy get 7 in a couple minutes and get TOTALLY IGNORED while Melo forced over 2 and 3 guys AND while Chauncey forced it to other people while LK was wide open, while none of those Billups was forcing it to was hot. As for D, my post had nothing to do with D and I don't even know why you brought it up. Last game, he played several minutes and his man never scored once on him that I can recall. Yeah, he left Kobe while Melo was running at Kobe and then he and Melo left him. Not just LK, who left AFTER Melo was running right at Melo. Anyhow, Kobe didn't even shoot the shot! And what if he did? What does that have to do with anything I posted in regards to LK not getting any touches down the stretch when we obviously need some offense from him? And your assertion that he may be the worst defender in the entire league? Seriously, that is absurd and you know it. take off the homer glasses, exactly your post wasn't about D, because LK is so bad at it you would never bring up D. He didnt leave kobe as melo ran toward him, melo had to run toward him because LK ran from him. Seriously who does that, him doing that did cause a easy bucket, if LK just stands there kobe cant make that pass, it was the easiest pass made in the history of basketball. was LK hot when he missed 2 of the three free throws he got? What about when he missed an inbound pass? He has played two good games this entire playoffs and guys who have been coming through in the clutch time and time again are suppossed to defer to him?? you dont give a guy touches that doesnt even belong on the other side of the court, JR got limited minutes because his D was so bad and now he's a decent defender, probably the best guy we have on Kobe. LK gets limited minutes because of it and manages to get worse. I'm sorry, but your posts are getting more and more absurd. Again, what did his D have to do with him not getting touches on offense in the 4th after hitting a triple AND scoring 7 in a couple minutes when NOBODY else was hot? AGAIN, WHAT DID HIS D HAVE TO DO WITH HIS OFFENSIVE TOUCHES WHEN HE STAYED IN THE GAME? And you bring up his missed free throws (in the first half- WHAT? ) and lamely bring up a bad inbounds play when he had to sprint back to try to get the ball and wasn't able to handle it? WHAT IN THE WORLD does that have to do with the 4th quarter? Throw out another reaching reply, please. I wasn't saying force it to LK. But the man was wide open after hitting shots. Get him a shot! And I've seen tons of worse NBA defenders than LK. )And Melo was coming toward Kobe before he left but LK should have stayed, yes.) More often that not, he does a pretty good job in man to man, but sometimes gets lost in the zone coverages, although he's done better of late than he did toward the end of the regular season.
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Post by ruru on May 28, 2009 0:16:53 GMT -5
I've seen some calls that have really pissed me off, but tonight, even though I felt that the calls went more in the Lakers' favor, I don't think it cost us the game. In other words, you think that taking Billups out of the game and limiting his aggressiveness early on and completely preventing another very important player in Nene to get any rythm and then taking him out of the game for good does not count as costing us the game? If so then you sure do have put much higher expectations on this team than I did. There is no way to quantify those things. We'd be better served to blame Stern for Voodoo ( no offense) than to say the officiating affected our players mental states AT JUST THE RIGHT MOMENTS.
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Post by bmelo on May 28, 2009 0:18:36 GMT -5
Like I said L.K can be a liability. A.C guards Kobe which results in points all the time. Gasol been giving it to Bird. One thing L.K has been doing is going to the boards and getting rebounds
Defense didnt lose this game for us. Offense did. In fact, offense lost every game for us so far. And offense won every game for us so far. Complacency lead to turnovers which got them back in the game, then eventually took the lead. Inability to drive because Lakers crowded the paint which forced us to take jump shots and missed. Thats why Ima a big supporter in playing L.K more minutes and playing smaller lineups at the right time. L.K has been hitting his jumpers
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Post by voodoo on May 28, 2009 0:18:40 GMT -5
No lead at all in the 4th, it was tied to end the 3rd and the Nuggets gave up an 11-0 run to start the 4th. They had a 7 point lead late in the 3rd and instead of continuing to execute they tried to put the game away with the long ball and started turning the ball over left and right. Poor execution to close out a quarter once again. They did it to end the 2nd and again to end the 3rd.
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Post by callmeking on May 28, 2009 0:19:00 GMT -5
I've seen some calls that have really pissed me off, but tonight, even though I felt that the calls went more in the Lakers' favor, I don't think it cost us the game. In other words, you think that taking Billups out of the game and limiting his aggressiveness early on and completely preventing another very important player in Nene to get any rythm and then taking him out of the game for good does not count as costing us the game? If so then you sure do have put much higher expectations on this team than I did. Billups panic! You don't have to be in a rhythm to go to the hole and still, we ended up taking a lead on LA by 7 pts until we collapsed in the 2nd. Billups played like a b***h, which he has a history of doing in the conference finals. Some bad calls went against Nene, but it happens. Kobe couldn't buy a foul.
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Post by ruru on May 28, 2009 0:19:31 GMT -5
It's impossible to rig a game without a substantial disparity in fouls called. All fouls are crucial to every sequence of the game, just as every sequence of the game is crucial to fouls called. I beg to disagree. Not all fouls are crucial to the game. The only time fouls become crucial is during the 4th quarter, especially when you're playing catch-up. You can have 10 fouls in the 1st quarter and yet you'd still have a great shot at winning the game. Another factor that would make a foul "crucial" is when a certain foul puts a KEY PLAYER in foul trouble which would take him out off the game for a significant amount of time. Like I've said, I'm not blaming this loss entirely on the refs and washing the teams hands off this loss. But the refs were a BIG FACTOR: 1) When they took Nene out in the 3rd and the 4th Quarter. 2) When they killed our comeback by bailing the Lakers with those phantom fouls and not calling the same fouls on our end. What lead? I can't remember how many points our lead was in the 4th (or if we ever had the lead at all in that quarter) But I'm pretty sure that it wasn't big enough that the Lakers wouldn't be able to catch up and overtake us with still plenty of time remaining. Basically, if we still had the lead in the 4th, what would've happened is like what happened in the Cavs-Magic last night. We would be Orlando, and they would be Cleveland. The difference would then be, Orlando was at home that time, so that certainly helped them still get the win even if the refs were clearly trying to help the Cavs win it. And since we're the visiting team, chances are higher that we would've lost anyway. If the refs were truly concerned about deciding the outcome of the game, there is no way they let Denver get a 7 point lead more than halfway through the third quarter (on a Melo And-1 none the less). It is one thing if there is a large disparity in fouls called, but a Plus 5 at home, with relatively similar aggression in the paint is as fair as you can ask for.
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Post by callmeking on May 28, 2009 0:19:45 GMT -5
Nene was a b***h when he was in.
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Post by callmeking on May 28, 2009 0:21:51 GMT -5
WTF? CARMELO AND LK SCORED ALL 18 PTS IN THE 4TH? LMFAO
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Post by bmelo on May 28, 2009 0:22:46 GMT -5
Woulda scored more if they blew their damn whistle
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Post by NightHiker on May 28, 2009 0:27:10 GMT -5
There is no way to quantify those things. We'd be better served to blame Stern for Voodoo ( no offense) than to say the officiating affected our players mental states AT JUST THE RIGHT MOMENTS. Who the hell is talking about MENTAL STATES? I am talking about BODY STATES, as in not being able to STAY IN THE F*CKING COURT. It would be pretty good "mental states" indeed if Billups and Nene using telekinesis to shoot, pass, rebound and defend from outside of the court...
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Post by ruru on May 28, 2009 0:30:22 GMT -5
There is no way to quantify those things. We'd be better served to blame Stern for Voodoo ( no offense) than to say the officiating affected our players mental states AT JUST THE RIGHT MOMENTS. Who the hell is talking about MENTAL STATES? I am talking about BODY STATES, as in not being able to STAY IN THE F*CKING COURT. It would be pretty good "mental states" indeed if Billups and Nene using telekinesis to shoot, pass, rebound and defend from outside of the court... My response was sort of two-fold to both complaining parties. I understand your frustration. I remember a ton of times where I was so angry after a Bronco game, or a Nugget game, that it didn't mater what anyone said. And it's not even that I think your percpetions are off. The Lakers did get the majority of 50-50 calls. But that's the NBA and it's not why we lost the game. Champions overcome these things. And we will eventually be smart enough to become champions. I wouldn;t put it past us that it happesn this year.
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