Bush

[Freedom Fighter]

I'm not positive as to who deleted Bush's resume from hangout, but let me remind you that the entrance to the forum states

"Come here to talk about anything - movies, current events, entertainment, music, politics, etc..."

I guess it means any politics that don't offend the moderators leader?

[cambrad]

Wasn't me.

www.footballfansfortruth.us/

[Freedom Fighter]

Update: Apparently proboards is siding with the left. Gotta love the John Kerry banners! Woo hoo!

[Beeznik]

Freedom said:

Update: Apparently proboards is siding with the left. Gotta love the John Kerry banners! Woo hoo!

do you love how when john kerry talks it sounds like he is talking down on everyone?

[GrandKenyon]

Only if you're below him intelectually. Which, if you're a republican, you are. I love the talking down quote...only dimwits use it.

[LotharBraunBrownBryant]

GrandKenyon said:

Only if you're below him intelectually. Which, if you're a republican, you are.

Heh. It seems to have infected the Kerry supporters, too. The classic "if you don't agree with me you must be a retard" line of thinking makes it pretty hard to take you seriously.

Neither political party has a monopoly on either intelligence or stupidity. There are plenty of Republicans who are smarter than Kerry, and plenty who are dumber than Paris Hilton. There are plenty of Democrats smarter than Kerry and plenty of them who are dumber than Paris Hilton, too. To dismiss everyone from one party as "stupid" only demonstrates your own ignorance of this simple fact.

[GrandKenyon]

Let me re-iterate the fact that Bush's IQ is 91.

urbanlegends.about.com/library/bliq-bush.htm

[samjack]

The link you provided debunks the story about Bush's IQ. I'm not one to defend Bush, I absolutely despise him, but don't bother attacking him if that's all you can do to back it up.

[GrandKenyon]

I just posted the first link about his IQ. There are several thousand more.

[LotharBraunBrownBryant]

GrandKenyon said:

I just posted the first link about his IQ. There are several thousand more.

I think you just demonstrated your own IQ, rather than his. Posting a link to an urban legends site trying to prove the urban legend... heh.

Maybe you shouldn't be so sure of what you believe. There are "several thousand more" links to prove just about anything you want. How many thousand links do you suppose you could find that say the Jazz are better than the Nuggets? How many thousand links do you suppose you could find that say the Nuggets are better than the Jazz? Clearly both can't be right -- yet there are plenty of webpages that argue each side.

Besides, your original point was that Bush supporters were dumb, not that Bush was dumb. I'm still waiting for you to attempt to back that up.

[GrandKenyon]

Hmm...the man is dumb, so wouldn't people that support him in turn be dumb themselves?

I've never seen a greater collection of sheep. There will be sheep on both sides, but Kerry was a relative unknown to those not familiar with politics, so you can assume most of his followers are genuinely concered for the state of their country. Bush followers, for the most part, are people that vote for who mommy and daddy say, or people that don't want their guns tampered with.

Oh well, it's less than a week away, the election will speak for itself. Ficken Sie Busch und ficken Sie, wenn Sie ihn mögen

[Master Yoda]

Correlation doesn't prove causation....I'm sorry but anyone who says the support Kerry in interest for "country and security" most of the time is full of s**t.

Your statement on Bush basically proves my point. Why vote for Kerry? Either your a blind democrat (i.e. sheep) or you hate Bush. Really there is no meduim...Any of Kerry's policies are in response to Bush. There is no original line of thought for this campaign. Its purely driven on people who hate Bush.

I'm sorry but there is no way Kerry inspires people in any other way besides the fact that he isn't Bush. This election is YOU HATE BUSH or YOU SUPPORT BUSH...Kerry is just the talking head.

[LotharBraunBrownBryant]

GrandKenyon said:

Hmm...the man is dumb, so wouldn't people that support him in turn be dumb themselves?

You never backed up your statement that he's dumb in the first place -- and I doubt you'd think he's dumb if you've ever read any extended interview with him. He's not the greatest debater in the world, but he's actually pretty intelligent when discussing things like philosophy of government.

Even if he was dumb... when you're voting for someone for president, you're not necessarily voting for the smartest person, you're voting for the person who you think will put in place the best policies and who will choose the best advisors and will make the best decisions. I know some very, very bright people who I don't trust AT ALL in a position of authority, and some fairly dumb people who I do trust in those positions.

I've never seen a greater collection of sheep.

Then you must have never looked very hard.

Kerry was a relative unknown to those not familiar with politics, so you can assume most of his followers are genuinely concered for the state of their country.

... or most of his followers are really "anybody but Bush" people, rather than "Kerry" people
... or most of his followers were decieved by his smooth talking and don't know enough about his policies to know not to vote for him

On a much more politically oriented forum I post on, there are about a hundred active participants who are voting for Kerry, and only about 3 of them actually like him. Most of them are voting for Kerry because they don't like Bush.

I would say most of EVERYBODY's followers are genuinely concerned about the state of their country. It just so happens that we have very different ideas about what we think the country should be like, and about how to get there.

Bush followers, for the most part, are people that vote for who mommy and daddy say, or people that don't want their guns tampered with.

... or people who don't like abortion
... or people like Zell Miller, who are social democrats but don't trust Kerry on defense
... or people who don't want their taxes raised
... or people who think we should take the fight to the terrorists
... or people who remember John Kerry's post-Vietnam activities
... or people who really liked what they saw on 9/11
... or people who realize Kerry has been endorsed by Yasser Arafat, and who go by the rule "figure out who the terrorists want to win, and vote for the other guy"

the election will speak for itself.

All the election will do is demonstrate who was able to get the most electoral votes. In this case, it'll be Bush by a decent margin (pay attention to the election markets.)

Anyway... I can't help but notice that you keep asserting certain things as facts, and you keep being entirely wrong on them. You keep giving lists of what you think the "only reasons" are for certain positions, and you miss many of the most obvious reasons. To make a long story short... you're not very convincing.

[GrandKenyon]

LotharBot said:

... or people who don't like abortion
... or people like Zell Miller, who are social democrats but don't trust Kerry on defense
... or people who don't want their taxes raised
... or people who think we should take the fight to the terrorists
... or people who remember John Kerry's post-Vietnam activities
... or people who really liked what they saw on 9/11
... or people who realize Kerry has been endorsed by Yasser Arafat, and who go by the rule "figure out who the terrorists want to win, and vote for the other guy"

  ROFLMAO!!!!!!

Against abortion but strongly supportive of the death penalty

Kerry has promised lowered taxes on the middle class (anybody under 200K a year) and raised taxes on upper class. If you look at Bush, his dad and Reagan, there are presidents that lied about taxes, but I feel strongly that he'll come through. Being a friggin' math teacher, that should be enough to sway your ass.

The whole terrorist fight is a crock of s**t. I was fully expecting Bush to pull the held-for-months Bin Laden out of a hat for the October Surprise yesterday, but I guess he never really did find him. He was the only legitimate threat, we failed in trying to locate him...he focused on cleaning up daddy's mess in Iraq...f**k him.

What post-Vietnam activites are you talking about? He spoke out against a war he fought in. He's entitled to those rights. He didn't fail drug tests or bail out of pilot school.

Hmm...if the terrorists want Bush to win, you're right, that should be reason enough to vote for the other guy. And although Arafat is very elusive to the goals he's been provided, a main reason we're in this mess is because of Israel. We need to be helping establish a Palestinian state and bailing out of Israel. Bin Laden cares more about the fact that we support Jews than the fact that we're rich. He's rich!

Turn off the FOX News channel, professor. 4 More Years of hell isn't something I want to be a part of.

Vote Kerry.

[GrandKenyon]

mp3.dubyaspeak.com/terriblepilot.mp3

[LotharBraunBrownBryant]

GrandKenyon said:

Against abortion but strongly supportive of the death penalty

When did I ever say that? I didn't even reference the death penalty.

But, for the sake of completeness: there are four possible combinations of for/against those two. Three of them can be held consistantly, and one of them can't.

for both - can be held consistantly, if you simply don't think life is a big deal
against both - can be held consistantly, if you think life trumps all else
against abortion, for death penalty - can be held consistantly, if you think INNOCENT LIFE should be protected but that once someone is guilty of a bad enough crime they give up their right to live
for abortion, against death penalty - this makes no sense whatsoever. Seriously, this is warped.

In other words... there's nothing wrong with being against abortion and for the death penalty, from a logical standpoint. (I haven't said what I personally believe, by the way.)

Kerry has promised lowered taxes on the middle class (anybody under 200K a year) and raised taxes on upper class.

As far as I can tell, Kerry has promised to keep taxes the SAME on the middle class and raise them on the upper class and on small businesses that pay taxes as if they were individuals. He hasn't promised any additional tax cuts.

But really... this is Kerry we're talking about. You actually trust what he says about taxes? He'll find a way to raise them.

The whole terrorist fight is a crock of s**t. I was fullying expecting Bush to pull the held-for-months Bin Laden out of a hat for the October Surprise yesterday, but I guess he never really did find him.

Ahhh, I see, another conspiracy theory. And you accuse Bush of being dumb?

He was the only legitimate threat

This is the fundamental difference between people voting for Bush and people voting for Kerry. People voting for Kerry are deluded into thinking Osama is the one and only terrorist threat in the world, while people voting for Bush realize that there's a whole swarm of Islamikazes out there who are willing to kill themselves as long as they can take a few of us out with them. People voting for Kerry think the War on Terror is over as soon as you get Osama, while people voting for Bush realize the War on Terror doesn't end until the culture of the middle east undergoes a radical transformation.

Osama is just a drop in the bucket. It'd be nice to catch him or kill him -- but the war on terror is a lot bigger than him.

we failed in trying to locate him...

But locating him isn't the #1 priority -- keeping him and the rest of the terrorists from killing us is the #1 priority, and actually capturing him and the other terrorists is #2. The fact that he's on the run hiding in a cave somewhere means that the #1 priority has been (at least mostly) successful.

he focused on cleaning up daddy's mess in Iraq...

It wasn't "daddy's mess" so much as it was "daddy, the UN, and pretty much the whole world's mess".

But it doesn't really matter whose mess it was -- what matters is that it got cleaned up. Saddam needed taken out years ago, and it's good that somebody finally did it. Why does it matter that his daddy was involved in making the mess? All that matters is that there was a mess that needed cleaned up, and that mess was high priority.

What post-Vietnam activites are you talking about? He spoke out against a war he fought in.

He lied about the war he fought in. Have you ever read his 1971 Seante testimony? Have you ever read about the Winter Soldier investigation? Have you ever read his book "A New Soldier"? His own words condemn him. You can find all of these things on google -- read his own words and tell me he's a man you trust to be president.

He's entitled to those rights. He didn't fail drug tests or bail out of pilot school.

Both crap arguments about Bush:
1) yeah, he was a druggie. He changed. He owned up to it. I'm still waiting for Kerry to own up to his 1971 senate testimony.
2) after Vietnam was over, the government was TRYING to get people to bail out of flight training, because they had too many pilots for peacetime.

Hmm...if the terrorists want Bush to win

Which they don't. Like I said, Arafat endorsed Kerry. The Mullahs of Iran have endorsed Kerry. A number of terrorist organizations have come out and said explicitly that they're trying to get Bush out of office.

although Arafat is very elusive to the goals he's been provided, a main reason we're in this mess is because of Israel.

LOL... you've now officially given up your right to call anyone dumb.

The main reason the Israeli - Palestinian conflict hasn't ended is because the Palestinian authority keeps encouraging violence (including suicide bombings) instead of encouraging peaceful resolution. Frankly, they don't WANT the conflict to end peacefully -- they WANT the Jews to be eliminated.

We need to be helping establish a Palestinian state and bailing out of Israel.

I agree we need to help establish a Palestinian state. Bush does too -- no other American president (Republican or Democrat) has ever endorsed the idea.

But I disagree about bailing out of Israel.

Bin Laden cares more about the fact that we support Jews than the fact that we're rich.

Yes, I know that. I wrote way back on 9/12 or so -- in response to a friend who'd argued "they hate us because of our foreign policy in

[/quote]

I don't watch TV, except for sports, and I mute the commercials. But I do read a lot, and I do research, which is why your parroting the Democratic party line isn't working -- I've studied the issues you keep bringing up, so in order to convince me, you need to give me a lot more than a DNC sound-bite.

I'm really, seriously amazed at how wrong you have been throughout this thread. Yet you call Bush supporters "dumb sheep"?

[GrandKenyon]

Change their culture? What the hell is that? You can't change a people's beliefs! Ridiculous.

What has bushed owned up to? Not much. His driving/police records have mysteriously dissapeared from the Texas record.

Bush made killing Bin Laden a priority. He never said anything about keeping him from hurting us...wouldn't killing him and the rest of the terrorists do that anyway?

Sad arguments.

[Master Yoda]

There is nothing ever EVER said about Kerry "doing" anything in office that inspires people or gives people reasons to elect him.

The popular thing to do is hate Bush nowadays, no reason required other than pop-culture myth...So everyone who ends their post with another blind and retarded "I HATE BUSH" statement should shut up and stop making yourself look stupid.

Anyone with half a brain sees right through it.

[LotharBraunBrownBryant]

GrandKenyon said:

Change their culture? What the hell is that? You can't change a people's beliefs!

I didn't say "beliefs" I said "culture". There's a difference.

One example of culture change is the introduction of a democratic government to Iraq. That's an institution change -- but with it will come a change in the culture, from a culture where the tribal leader is in charge to a culture where everyone has a say. That's why Bush is always harping on bringing freedom and democracy to Iraq and Afghanistan -- because introducing those two elements *will* change the culture. There are plenty of other culture changes in action, both in that part of the world and back here.

Culture change isn't actually very hard if you're deliberate and careful about it. It takes time and energy and consistancy, but it's not difficult. I've personally enacted it in a few places over the last 5 years or so, so I know it can be done. I've heard Bush describe his philosophy of culture change in interviews, and he's actually got a very intelligent and well-developed view of culture change.

Now, I'm not saying he can make Osama love us -- but he *can* enact culture change throughout the world, making those cultures become significantly less receptive to terrorists by changing their values and perceptions of themselves. Introducing freedom and democracy is a huge step in that direction.

What has bushed owned up to? Not much. His driving/police records have mysteriously dissapeared from the Texas record.

He owned up to being an alcoholic, to being a coke addict, etc. He's made public mention of these things several times, and in particular, he's spoken of being rescued from those things (but you probably tuned him out when he owned up to them, because he talked about Jesus when he did.) Kerry, on the other hand, hasn't come out and said "I stand by my 1971 testimony" OR "I made a mistake by giving that testimony in 1971". He hasn't owned up to it at all.

Bush made killing Bin Laden a priority. He never said anything about keeping him from hurting us...wouldn't killing him and the rest of the terrorists do that anyway?

Killing him and the other terrorists *would* do that, sure. What's your point? Stopping him AND THE OTHERS (I notice you've changed your tune to include this point) is priority #1; actually arresting or killing them is priority #2. The focus is, first, on stopping them from harming us, and second, on actually bringing them to justice.

This has been clear in every Bush speech about terrorism. I don't see how you can say he "never said anything about keeping [them] from hurting us" because he's been constantly saying that -- constantly talking about making us more secure, about stopping terrorists from being able to hurt us, about destroying their support structures, etc.

I just went and read over a few of the president's remarks from mid-Septermber 2001 ( www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/09/ ) to be sure I remembered correctly. Sure enough, he always talks about going to war against terrorists, rather than just going after Osama. In his speech on 9/15 he says "Our response must be sweeping, sustained and effective." Those aren't the words of someone who thinks this is a war on Osama -- those are the words of someone who thinks this is a war on an entire ideology.

Let me say this again: the difference between Bush and his supporters, and Kerry and his supporters, is (at least for the most part) that Kerry thinks this is a war on Osama, and once Osama is captured or killed we're done. Bush recognizes that this is a war against an entire ideology, of which Osama is simply one of the most vocal ideologues. In order to win the war on terror, you can't simply try to catch the terrorist leaders -- you have to change the culture from which terrorism arises. Kerry doesn't understand this, but Bush does.

Sad arguments.

That is what you've been posting.

Again, I notice you can't really engage anything I say. You're giving single-line responses that show you didn't even comprehend my position. You're repeating DNC talking points that don't even come close to answering what I'm saying. And you continue to show your own ignorance of both Bush and Kerry's positions. But somehow, you still manage to conclude Bush supporters are dumb. Heh.

[Lubick]

My brother -who spent 9 months living in a dirt hole, knee deep in dead Iraqis, during a quest for fictional WMDs- hates Bush.

He is just a Jarhead, but he has more than half a brain. Barely.

My point? None really. Go Rams.