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Post by Ring on Nov 18, 2024 10:49:39 GMT -5
The thing that sucks about Jamal is it seems like he doesn't even care. Like bro tell us you know you're playing like s**t and you know you need to be better. Take some accountability or responsibility. At least that would get the fans back on his side.
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Post by wizardofcozz on Nov 18, 2024 11:27:31 GMT -5
I'd argue our supporting cast is as good or better then the championship season, at least as individual pieces. At end of the day, Murray and MPJ haven't stepped up in these situations enough, especially Murray. Take PHX they put up 127 in the loss, with 2 of their top 3 guys gone, but they also had Booker who put up 44 pts. Take DAL who beat OKC w/out Luka. Kyrie had 22 pts on 50% fg, and PJ Washington had 27 pts, there role players did similar stuff to what ours did, but the guys counted on to step up in those situations stepped up. IT's a combination of Murray and MPJ are overpaid relative to their actual talent to the point that it has effected us bringing in pieces below them, and the fact that Malone seems incapable of creating any type of offense outside of Jokic and all that Jokic does. People have complained about Malone since Finch left in 17'. Malone has preached and preached defense, but at end of day our offense while good is not some amazing system, it's simply Jokic. You could argue that but you would obviously be wrong. Rewatch this game if you have to People have complained about Malone since day one. Before that they complained about Shaw. Before that Karl. Fans complain about coaching. Every f***ing where I've watched almost every game. I never said Malone sucks btw, I said he takes some blame for how the offense has performed. I don't think he's a particularly very good X and O's guy, doesn't mean he's not good at other stuff. |
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Post by freakns on Nov 18, 2024 16:33:47 GMT -5
I'd argue our supporting cast is as good or better then the championship season, at least as individual pieces. At end of the day, Murray and MPJ haven't stepped up in these situations enough, especially Murray. Take PHX they put up 127 in the loss, with 2 of their top 3 guys gone, but they also had Booker who put up 44 pts. Take DAL who beat OKC w/out Luka. Kyrie had 22 pts on 50% fg, and PJ Washington had 27 pts, there role players did similar stuff to what ours did, but the guys counted on to step up in those situations stepped up. IT's a combination of Murray and MPJ are overpaid relative to their actual talent to the point that it has effected us bringing in pieces below them, and the fact that Malone seems incapable of creating any type of offense outside of Jokic and all that Jokic does. People have complained about Malone since Finch left in 17'. Malone has preached and preached defense, but at end of day our offense while good is not some amazing system, it's simply Jokic. You could argue that but you would obviously be wrong. Rewatch this game if you have to People have complained about Malone since day one. Before that they complained about Shaw. Before that Karl. Fans complain about coaching. Every f***ing where I was always big Malone supporter. I hope you guys remember my late fellow Serbian, odvala. He even put me on ignore because I defended Malone. However, team has never looked this bad without Jokic. Yes, they were bad in 2021-22 when he didn't play, but that team didn't have Jamal and MPJ. It was Facu, Rivers, Monte, Barton... that was really bad team. This however is new time low, even for Malone's offense. And I already said, Booth has made some really questionable decisions, and Jamal has played like s**t. But team is not playing like 1-81 team(which is exactly how Nuggets are playing without Jokic) if coach is doing everything right. |
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Post by freakns on Nov 18, 2024 16:47:01 GMT -5
The thing that sucks about Jamal is it seems like he doesn't even care. Like bro tell us you know you're playing like s**t and you know you need to be better. Take some accountability or responsibility. At least that would get the fans back on his side. he doesn't care. he will never admit he plays like s**t. in his mind, he is giving his best(which I do think he does), so all is good. the fact that he needs to spend whole offseason to work like crazy on his conditioning, thats just not in his vocabulary. I will never be disappointed in CB or PWat. Those guys are flying on the court. If they cant hit shots or cant dribble, thats not something I will ever be mad at. I have 0 problems with MPJ also. When someone has 3 back surgeries, then play 81 game with specially designed shoe, and goes out after gm 7 loss against Minnesota and says its all on me, I'm the one who failed us, he has green light in my book. His struggles this season are product of him seeing this team needs more, and trying to find a way to give them that more, not being out of shape or delusional about his play |
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Post by famicommander on Nov 18, 2024 19:27:35 GMT -5
Jokic questionable again tomorrow.
Please save us, Joker.
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Post by AbdulJabber on Nov 18, 2024 21:12:53 GMT -5
Murray ain't worth 50m, but he's been one of our best +/- players this season and he was our best +- guy in this game.
plus minus Per game; Murray +7. Jok +9.8. AG +7.5. CB +6.6. MPJ +3 and it craters into oblivion after that.
Obviously everyone gets a boost from playing with Jok, but even in a season when Murray is way below par, he's still been our 3rd best player in terms of plus/minus. If his 3's were dropping, he'd be ahead of AG.
So what's the real issue here? IMO, the Booth experiment isn't working. His bench is horrific. Westbrook is -85 in 291 minutes played. Everyone was curious how he'd look on a team that already lacked outside shooting. Minus 85 is how he looks. Saric? also a disaster at -35 in only 110 minutes. Straw is a cringe-worthy -69 in 259 minutes. The only serviceable guy so far is Watson because he at least brings defense and high energy, but his +/- is helped by playing a lot with the starters.
At the end of the day, the bench has to be fixed. Westbrook needs to go. He doesn't fit with this roster of "streaky" shooters. I think we need a guard that can make 3's and we need a big man that can vacuum up rebounds. Straw and Watson show flashes that make me hopeful, but it's gonna be scary to rely on them come playoff time.
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Post by nuggetshipster on Nov 19, 2024 10:18:50 GMT -5
Murray ain't worth 50m, but he's been one of our best +/- players this season and he was our best +- guy in this game. plus minus Per game; Murray +7. Jok +9.8. AG +7.5. CB +6.6. MPJ +3 and it craters into oblivion after that. Obviously everyone gets a boost from playing with Jok, but even in a season when Murray is way below par, he's still been our 3rd best player in terms of plus/minus. If his 3's were dropping, he'd be ahead of AG. So what's the real issue here? IMO, the Booth experiment isn't working. His bench is horrific. Westbrook is -85 in 291 minutes played. Everyone was curious how he'd look on a team that already lacked outside shooting. Minus 85 is how he looks. Saric? also a disaster at -35 in only 110 minutes. Straw is a cringe-worthy -69 in 259 minutes. The only serviceable guy so far is Watson because he at least brings defense and high energy, but his +/- is helped by playing a lot with the starters. At the end of the day, the bench has to be fixed. Westbrook needs to go. He doesn't fit with this roster of "streaky" shooters. I think we need a guard that can make 3's and we need a big man that can vacuum up rebounds. Straw and Watson show flashes that make me hopeful, but it's gonna be scary to rely on them come playoff time. KCP and Plumlee |
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Post by wizardofcozz on Nov 19, 2024 10:54:48 GMT -5
Murray ain't worth 50m, but he's been one of our best +/- players this season and he was our best +- guy in this game. plus minus Per game; Murray +7. Jok +9.8. AG +7.5. CB +6.6. MPJ +3 and it craters into oblivion after that. Obviously everyone gets a boost from playing with Jok, but even in a season when Murray is way below par, he's still been our 3rd best player in terms of plus/minus. If his 3's were dropping, he'd be ahead of AG. So what's the real issue here? IMO, the Booth experiment isn't working. His bench is horrific. Westbrook is -85 in 291 minutes played. Everyone was curious how he'd look on a team that already lacked outside shooting. Minus 85 is how he looks. Saric? also a disaster at -35 in only 110 minutes. Straw is a cringe-worthy -69 in 259 minutes. The only serviceable guy so far is Watson because he at least brings defense and high energy, but his +/- is helped by playing a lot with the starters. At the end of the day, the bench has to be fixed. Westbrook needs to go. He doesn't fit with this roster of "streaky" shooters. I think we need a guard that can make 3's and we need a big man that can vacuum up rebounds. Straw and Watson show flashes that make me hopeful, but it's gonna be scary to rely on them come playoff time. KCP and Plumlee Neither of those guys would of made a lick of difference on how this team is playing this year. |
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Post by wizardofcozz on Nov 19, 2024 11:00:24 GMT -5
Murray ain't worth 50m, but he's been one of our best +/- players this season and he was our best +- guy in this game. plus minus Per game; Murray +7. Jok +9.8. AG +7.5. CB +6.6. MPJ +3 and it craters into oblivion after that. Obviously everyone gets a boost from playing with Jok, but even in a season when Murray is way below par, he's still been our 3rd best player in terms of plus/minus. If his 3's were dropping, he'd be ahead of AG. So what's the real issue here? IMO, the Booth experiment isn't working. His bench is horrific. Westbrook is -85 in 291 minutes played. Everyone was curious how he'd look on a team that already lacked outside shooting. Minus 85 is how he looks. Saric? also a disaster at -35 in only 110 minutes. Straw is a cringe-worthy -69 in 259 minutes. The only serviceable guy so far is Watson because he at least brings defense and high energy, but his +/- is helped by playing a lot with the starters. At the end of the day, the bench has to be fixed. Westbrook needs to go. He doesn't fit with this roster of "streaky" shooters. I think we need a guard that can make 3's and we need a big man that can vacuum up rebounds. Straw and Watson show flashes that make me hopeful, but it's gonna be scary to rely on them come playoff time. Using +/- in small sample sizes is ridiculouls. BTW Saric has looked good the last two games. You know who didn't look good. MPJ and Murray. The guys making the most money. Go and look at other teams who win when their star sits. What happens the other stars step up. They aren't getting huge games from bench guys, they actually play 2-3 starters with the bench so that their is more firepower. This helps the +/- of those benches. Malone doesn't do this alot, AND our other starters are incompetent without Jokic. It's that simple. We have too much money in guys who can't produce on their own. |
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Post by freakns on Nov 19, 2024 11:50:58 GMT -5
not quite.
Jamal-CB-MPJ-Watson-Saric looked playable. Not great, but playable. And no matter how you look at PWat, and he has been great while not playing with Westbrook, he is still miles away from AG. What I mean, its not only Jokic, its Jokic and AG.
This doesn't mean Jamal and MPJ have looked great, but they are not totally off.
And I already wrote while ago, I don't care how much money they make. If Booth offered me 50M to be starting PG of the Nuggets, I'd take that money. And I would give my best, and still be by far worst player in NBA, but I'd take that money and wouldn't loose any sleep about it.
There are two problems I have with Jamal. One, he clearly isn't at full speed. Not even close. Well, its middle of November, so many people aren't on 100%. But Jamal looks like he is at 50% at best. Two, he just doesn't give a f**k. Best Jamal is emotional Jamal, and so far this season he has shown none of it. He looks like a player who got his money, has his title, and he is good.
Everything else should be contributed to Booth and Malone. Booth has given max contract to a guy who clearly doesn't deserve it. Even if he pulls another 2023 playoff run, someone needs to drag his ass to the playoffs. He also got zero creators on this team. Best bet is Westbrook, but he is more of a loose cannon and others are looking confused next to him. So it is clear that this roster is flawed. But we knew that. Malone knew that. And he still hasn't done anything about it. He is Jamal's coach for 7 years, and if he still thinks Jamal can give you what Jokic is giving you, then he is a moron. And I'm ready to give him benefit of a doubt and believe he isn't one. Then why Nuggets have no system when Jokic isn't on the floor? Why is everyone just standing and wait for either Jamal or Westbrook to create something out of nothing? Its mind blowing...
ps. there are still no news about Jokic, so he is most likely missing another game, which means Nuggets are cooked again. I have 0 beliefs that they can be at least competitive, let alone winning.
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Post by BBBbbb on Nov 19, 2024 11:54:10 GMT -5
Malone complained at the postgame about defenders getting away with being too physical with Murray. The defenders being too physical: streamable.com/j1hxo1 |
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Post by wizardofcozz on Nov 19, 2024 12:02:26 GMT -5
not quite. Jamal-CB-MPJ-Watson-Saric looked playable. Not great, but playable. And no matter how you look at PWat, and he has been great while not playing with Westbrook, he is still miles away from AG. What I mean, its not only Jokic, its Jokic and AG. This doesn't mean Jamal and MPJ have looked great, but they are not totally off. And I already wrote while ago, I don't care how much money they make. If Booth offered me 50M to be starting PG of the Nuggets, I'd take that money. And I would give my best, and still be by far worst player in NBA, but I'd take that money and wouldn't loose any sleep about it. There are two problems I have with Jamal. One, he clearly isn't at full speed. Not even close. Well, its middle of November, so many people aren't on 100%. But Jamal looks like he is at 50% at best. Two, he just doesn't give a f**k. Best Jamal is emotional Jamal, and so far this season he has shown none of it. He looks like a player who got his money, has his title, and he is good. Everything else should be contributed to Booth and Malone. Booth has given max contract to a guy who clearly doesn't deserve it. Even if he pulls another 2023 playoff run, someone needs to drag his ass to the playoffs. He also got zero creators on this team. Best bet is Westbrook, but he is more of a loose cannon and others are looking confused next to him. So it is clear that this roster is flawed. But we knew that. Malone knew that. And he still hasn't done anything about it. He is Jamal's coach for 7 years, and if he still thinks Jamal can give you what Jokic is giving you, then he is a moron. And I'm ready to give him benefit of a doubt and believe he isn't one. Then why Nuggets have no system when Jokic isn't on the floor? Why is everyone just standing and wait for either Jamal or Westbrook to create something out of nothing? Its mind blowing... ps. there are still no news about Jokic, so he is most likely missing another game, which means Nuggets are cooked again. I have 0 beliefs that they can be at least competitive, let alone winning. Agree withe everything said here. I don't blame Jamal for taking the money. I put that all on booth. Having said that, he clearly didn't deserve a max contract. Nothing he has done screams max contract, and that includes an insane 16 game playoff run. Still didn't mean he was a max contract guy. I love AG, I'm worried we paid him way to much as well. His contract vs. what he gave us has been great value, but now we're paying the max to a guy who rarely scores 20+ points, and who has an iffy outside shot. People keep complaining about the bench, but I feel our starters vs. what we're paying them outside of CB and Jok makes no sense whatsoever. |
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Post by wizardofcozz on Nov 19, 2024 12:03:48 GMT -5
Malone complained at the postgame about defenders getting away with being too physical with Murray. The defenders being too physical: streamable.com/j1hxo1People should watch that, and see how little explosiveness Jamal has. Other guards in the league would of come off those screens hard, and attacked downhill. Something Murray seems incapable of. |
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Post by GBG on Nov 19, 2024 13:07:07 GMT -5
not quite. Jamal-CB-MPJ-Watson-Saric looked playable. Not great, but playable. And no matter how you look at PWat, and he has been great while not playing with Westbrook, he is still miles away from AG. What I mean, its not only Jokic, its Jokic and AG. This doesn't mean Jamal and MPJ have looked great, but they are not totally off. And I already wrote while ago, I don't care how much money they make. If Booth offered me 50M to be starting PG of the Nuggets, I'd take that money. And I would give my best, and still be by far worst player in NBA, but I'd take that money and wouldn't loose any sleep about it. There are two problems I have with Jamal. One, he clearly isn't at full speed. Not even close. Well, its middle of November, so many people aren't on 100%. But Jamal looks like he is at 50% at best. Two, he just doesn't give a f**k. Best Jamal is emotional Jamal, and so far this season he has shown none of it. He looks like a player who got his money, has his title, and he is good. Everything else should be contributed to Booth and Malone. Booth has given max contract to a guy who clearly doesn't deserve it. Even if he pulls another 2023 playoff run, someone needs to drag his ass to the playoffs. He also got zero creators on this team. Best bet is Westbrook, but he is more of a loose cannon and others are looking confused next to him. So it is clear that this roster is flawed. But we knew that. Malone knew that. And he still hasn't done anything about it. He is Jamal's coach for 7 years, and if he still thinks Jamal can give you what Jokic is giving you, then he is a moron. And I'm ready to give him benefit of a doubt and believe he isn't one. Then why Nuggets have no system when Jokic isn't on the floor? Why is everyone just standing and wait for either Jamal or Westbrook to create something out of nothing? Its mind blowing... ps. there are still no news about Jokic, so he is most likely missing another game, which means Nuggets are cooked again. I have 0 beliefs that they can be at least competitive, let alone winning. Agree withe everything said here. I don't blame Jamal for taking the money. I put that all on booth. Having said that, he clearly didn't deserve a max contract. Nothing he has done screams max contract, and that includes an insane 16 game playoff run. Still didn't mean he was a max contract guy. I love AG, I'm worried we paid him way to much as well. His contract vs. what he gave us has been great value, but now we're paying the max to a guy who rarely scores 20+ points, and who has an iffy outside shot. People keep complaining about the bench, but I feel our starters vs. what we're paying them outside of CB and Jok makes no sense whatsoever. AG didn’t get the max. He got the maximum raise the CBA allowed him to get. He even gave us a bit of a discount, iirc. And he’s well worth it. Even early signs of his shot improving. |
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Post by wizardofcozz on Nov 19, 2024 13:20:11 GMT -5
Agree withe everything said here. I don't blame Jamal for taking the money. I put that all on booth. Having said that, he clearly didn't deserve a max contract. Nothing he has done screams max contract, and that includes an insane 16 game playoff run. Still didn't mean he was a max contract guy. I love AG, I'm worried we paid him way to much as well. His contract vs. what he gave us has been great value, but now we're paying the max to a guy who rarely scores 20+ points, and who has an iffy outside shot. People keep complaining about the bench, but I feel our starters vs. what we're paying them outside of CB and Jok makes no sense whatsoever. AG didn’t get the max. He got the maximum raise the CBA allowed him to get. He even gave us a bit of a discount, iirc. And he’s well worth it. Even early signs of his shot improving. Hence why I said worried, and not nearly the negativity I have towards his contracts that I do towards Murray. I will grant Max is a vague word that has different meanings. But we are going to pay AG $36 mill per year in his age 31, 32, 33 seasons. I'm not sure that is smart long term. I'm sure people on here in another year or so will be bemoaning it to an extent. But that isn't nearly the millstone that Murray's 52 million a year is going to be! We really needed to be sure that this version of Murray was worth taking into the next 5 years, and I can't help but be skeptical. Especially as we want to be able to rest Jokic more, but Murray is incapable of carring an offense on his own. |
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Post by GBG on Nov 19, 2024 13:24:16 GMT -5
AG didn’t get the max. He got the maximum raise the CBA allowed him to get. He even gave us a bit of a discount, iirc. And he’s well worth it. Even early signs of his shot improving. Hence why I said worried, and not nearly the negativity I have towards his contracts that I do towards Murray. I will grant Max is a vague word that has different meanings. But we are going to pay AG $36 mill per year in his age 31, 32, 33 seasons. I'm not sure that is smart long term. I'm sure people on here in another year or so will be bemoaning it to an extent. But that isn't nearly the millstone that Murray's 52 million a year is going to be! We really needed to be sure that this version of Murray was worth taking into the next 5 years, and I can't help but be skeptical. Especially as we want to be able to rest Jokic more, but Murray is incapable of carring an offense on his own. $36 mil per year in those years isn’t going to be nearly as problematic as you think. It may be common around the NBA, with the 10% annual salary cap increases coming. We aren’t winning a chip without healthy Jokic anyway, and Murray has proven to be a compliment to him in postseason when healthy. |
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Post by LotharBraunBrownBryant on Nov 19, 2024 13:25:58 GMT -5
Murray is built for 16. Jokic is built for 82 + 16. Embiid is built for 33 + 6.
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Post by nuggetshipster on Nov 19, 2024 13:44:12 GMT -5
Neither of those guys would of made a lick of difference on how this team is playing this year. Its the kind of players he described he wanted on the bench tho |
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Post by famicommander on Nov 19, 2024 14:04:33 GMT -5
Joker officially out again.
Prepare for pain.
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Post by freakns on Nov 19, 2024 14:18:55 GMT -5
Malone complained at the postgame about defenders getting away with being too physical with Murray. The defenders being too physical: streamable.com/j1hxo1blazing speed on display, counter only by brutally physical defense. but Jamal's will shell not be broken and he will use all his strength to get into their half in less then 7.6 seconds despite numerous injuries caused by that clearly illegal physical defense and ofc Malone said defenders are getting away with being too physical with Murray. what did you expect for him to say? "after 7 years of proving otherwise I still believe Jamal can create NBA offense" or maybe, "oh, there are head coaches in NBA that teach offense? naaaah, you guys are pulling my nose." |
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