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Post by LotharBraunBrownBryant on Feb 5, 2019 17:15:10 GMT -5
yeah, it's not like the Lakers put out an amazing offer. It's 4 players with sub-15 PERs plus Zubac (limited minutes but good advanced stats) and 2 picks. Imagine if we offered Vando, Juancho, Lyles, Craig, Welsh, and picks and then tried to leak the story that the other team was being unreasonable because that's a lot of young players.
A package centered on Millsap's contract, Murray/Juancho/MPJ as young players with great potential, a little bit of filler, and picks for AD+Jrue would be competitive if not outright better.
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Post by inyourmind on Feb 5, 2019 17:16:06 GMT -5
Someone correct me if I’m wrong but I thought Boston wasn’t even allowed to trade for Davis even if both sides agree? They have to wait until the offseason when they can sign Irving to a new deal. People keep mentioning Boston and bringing them up but it's a tough sell at this point IMO. So they can't do anything right now. Boston is the one team that could beat the offer but Ainge isn't an idiot and it's extremely telling Davis didn't make there list. Every FO in the NBA, Davis, NOLA, fans etc. knows Boston would be apart of the Davis talks yet they didn't make the list. If NOLA couldn't convince Davis's camp to atleast entertain the idea of Boston in the media for leverage I think people are a little crazy thinking they'll play a big role in these trade talks. Didn't Davis's dad literally come out and call Boston out for not being loyal in the I.T situation. Irving may bolt. Doubt Boston is just going to hand over Tatum, and rumors suggest they won't currently. If Irving does bolt, than they'll need the picks/young assets to rebuild.
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Post by brick2 on Feb 5, 2019 17:17:47 GMT -5
Someone correct me if I’m wrong but I thought Boston wasn’t even allowed to trade for Davis even if both sides agree? I read they can't really make an attractive offer until the summer and something happens with the Irving and Tatum contracts. Dunno the details though.
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Post by brick2 on Feb 5, 2019 17:19:11 GMT -5
Who's willing to beat Kuzma, Ball, Ingram, Zubac, Hart, plus taking on shitty salary. A bunch of teams could beat that offer if they are willing to ignore the free agency issue. That offer includes exactly zero players who are borderline allstars or young players who project to be allstars or close to it. The Kings, for example, have a strong group of young players -- Fox, Hield, Bagley, Bogdanovic, Giles, Cauley-Stein -- along with the expiring contracts of Randolph, Shumpert and Koufos. They could definitely make a more attractive offer than the Lakers IMO. Yep. Just because Davis and Klutch have a list doesn't mean New Orleans has to stick to it.
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Post by inyourmind on Feb 5, 2019 17:24:21 GMT -5
yeah, it's not like the Lakers put out an amazing offer. It's 4 players with sub-15 PERs plus Zubac (limited minutes but good advanced stats) and 2 picks. Imagine if we offered Vando, Juancho, Lyles, Craig, Welsh, and picks and then tried to leak the story that the other team was being unreasonable because that's a lot of young players. A package centered on Millsap's contract, Murray/Juancho/MPJ as young players with great potential, a little bit of filler, and picks for AD+Jrue would be competitive if not outright better. If you think Jauncho, Lyles, Craig, Vando compare to Kuzma, Ball, Ingram, Hart, Zubac 2 1st round picks, taking back Soloman Hill's shitty contract .. I just don't know what to say. Don't think there is anything really. Just pure homerism to a delusional level. Jamal Murray has pretty bad advanced stats fyi. I'm a huge Murray fan and have defended him all year back and forth but there not good. -1 BPM, 15.3 PER, .528% TS%. Pretty similar to Kuzma. Better PER, worse TS%. Kuzma's 23 turning 24 soon, Murray 21 turning 22 soon. Ingram's younger than both. He's not turning 22 till September. His TS% is .538, his PER is 12.7, and his BPM is brutal at like -2.9. Keep in mind Denver's a much better team. Murray's advanced stats should look alot better given the lineups he gets to play with. I like advanced stats as much as the next guy, but a skillset is important. Volume is important. Like with Murray he's forced to averaged almost 19 points a game, which will hurt his efficiency, but eventually should project as an efficient player. Just like with Ingram. We've seen Beasley develop a 3 point shot. Monte. Why can't Ingram? Why is Ingram trash? I hate defending L.A but this is just wild.
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Post by game on Feb 5, 2019 17:34:24 GMT -5
IYM is drinking Rich Paul's kool-aid.
Why will the Lakers be any less desperate in the summer? They won't. Boston has been planning for AD for years. They're going to come hot. Somebody will get the #1 pick.
There's more upside than downside to wait. That's why. Worst case, you take the Lakers pu-pu platter in July.
You haven't made a compelling case against waiting other than fear of the unknown or because Rich Paul's leaks have you spooked. Simply inserting Boston into this is a positive, even if you ultimately go with the Lakers.
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Post by rock on Feb 5, 2019 17:36:12 GMT -5
Someone correct me if I’m wrong but I thought Boston wasn’t even allowed to trade for Davis even if both sides agree? I read they can't really make an attractive offer until the summer and something happens with the Irving and Tatum contracts. Dunno the details though. No I meant like nba rules prevent them from making any trade for Davis
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Post by LotharBraunBrownBryant on Feb 5, 2019 17:38:48 GMT -5
I'm not saying the set of players with Welsh is equivalent to the Lakers package. I'm just being hyperbolic because honestly, the Lakers package isn't that good. I don't see likely star potential in any of those players except Ingram. This idea that, well, "we offered such a big package" is like... only if you think the Lakers' young guys are really good. I don't, so I see it as a meh package.
IMO Murray/Juancho/MPJ offer at least similar potential to the Lakers player package. And yeah, Murray's advanced stats aren't great this year, but he's also been playing hurt, and he's shown quite a bit of potential the last 2 years.
So this idea that the Lakers offered a great package and nobody else can match it... nah. We can match it, maybe beat it if NO likes some of our other young guys like Vando or Cancar.
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Post by inyourmind on Feb 5, 2019 17:42:24 GMT -5
IYM is drinking Rich Paul's kool-aid. Why will the Lakers be any less desperate in the summer? They won't. Boston has been planning for AD for years. They're going to come hot. Somebody will get the #1 pick. There's more upside than downside to wait. That's why. Worst case, you take the Lakers pu-pu platter in July. You haven't made a compelling case against waiting other than fear of the unknown or because Rich Paul's leaks have you spooked. Simply inserting Boston into this is a positive, even if you ultimately go with the Lakers. Because they have cap space and there's tons of available FA's? Because LeBron won't be as desperate forcing there hand. He's old as s**t. Every single post season matters at this point. You think L.A isn't more desperate right now? Leonard just purchased a huge estate in L.A, his family is there, he grew up there, basically everyone has said how much he wants to be there. You don't think L.A doesn't prefer to go after him and keep there assets? Leonard doesn't do s**t for them right now, and like everyone LeBron's ever been in his entire career, he'll get what he wants. Dude AD's dad has talked s**t about Boston, Davis never included him on his list despite like you said there obvious interest, rumors swirling around about Irving potential leaving, and today it was rumored that Tatum is no longer on the table. Those are all just things that are happening and have been said. Not my opinion. L.A's desperate as can be right now, I don't think that lasts.
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Post by game on Feb 5, 2019 17:42:43 GMT -5
The Lakers package is really unimpressive.
You can say Lonzo is an asset but how many teams has he already refused to play for, and how many others don't want s**t to do with the family? His upside as a player is significantly hampered by the mess he brings to town. So he'll play for PHX only? Who wants to deal with that?
I'm fine on Ingram. There's definitely upside there. He just hasn't quite been what anybody hoped yet, and the flashes are less frequent than Murray.
Kuzma - meh. Scorer who does nothing else.
Pick - trash.
Not sure why Boston can't bear that or at least be really competitive with that, Tatum or no Tatum.
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Post by inyourmind on Feb 5, 2019 17:45:05 GMT -5
I'm not saying the set of players with Welsh is equivalent to the Lakers package. I'm just being hyperbolic because honestly, the Lakers package isn't that good. I don't see likely star potential in any of those players except Ingram. This idea that, well, "we offered such a big package" is like... only if you think the Lakers' young guys are really good. I don't, so I see it as a meh package. IMO Murray/Juancho/MPJ offer at least similar potential to the Lakers player package. And yeah, Murray's advanced stats aren't great this year, but he's also been playing hurt, and he's shown quite a bit of potential the last 2 years. So this idea that the Lakers offered a great package and nobody else can match it... nah. We can match it, maybe beat it if NO likes some of our other young guys like Vando or Cancar. I agree. Murray/Jauncho/MPJ is a better offer. We aren't offering that. We aren't taking Hill's contract back. We aren't adding two 1st rounders. Not for 1.5 years, let alone in the offseason for 1 season. People can match the offer. I've never said they can't. It's who will? Who's willing to give up a s**t ton for a guy liking s**t on Instagram, deeply connected to LeBron/Rich Paul? I'd offer the Murray package straight up right now, I seriously doubt TC will.
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Post by blackhill on Feb 5, 2019 17:46:51 GMT -5
Someone correct me if I’m wrong but I thought Boston wasn’t even allowed to trade for Davis even if both sides agree? Only way Boston can get AD before the trade deadline is to trade Kyrie - this is due to some obscure designation of for their respective contracts. Relatedly,m if I'm Boston, I try to trade Kyrie regardless even if they can only get a mid 1st and expirings - he praised the King and then demanded out a few months later. Then he gave his word to a stadium of people that we coming back to Boston and now he says wait till July 1 and that he doesn't owe anyone s**t. Somewhere along this he has trashed his teammates and apologized to Lebron for being immature. He has injury concerns too - who needs that toxicity - he's a clown, albeit an entertaining one
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Post by inyourmind on Feb 5, 2019 17:50:03 GMT -5
The Lakers package is really unimpressive. You can say Lonzo is an asset but how many teams has he already refused to play for, and how many others don't want s**t to do with the family? His upside as a player is significantly hampered by the mess he brings to town. So he'll play for PHX only? Who wants to deal with that? I'm fine on Ingram. There's definitely upside there. He just hasn't quite been what anybody hoped yet, and the flashes are less frequent than Murray. Kuzma - meh. Scorer who does nothing else. Pick - trash. Not sure why Boston can't bear that or at least be really competitive with that, Tatum or no Tatum. I'm guessing because when you don't make a list that everyone will be watching to see if your on, and that players dad trashes your team, and you already have to focus on your 1 star player not bolting things become complicated. IMO people are including Boston because there Boston and have had there hand in every single trade talk forever now. I just don't think Ainge is a stupid GM. He's not going to give up valuable assets that beat L.A's offer for potentially 1 year of Davis. Brown/late lotto pick/Marcus Smart? Sure. Give me the salary relief, Ingram/Kuzma/Zubac/Hart and whatever Ball gets you over that tho. Brown himself has been less than impressive this season. He's got shitty advanced stats too.
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Post by inyourmind on Feb 5, 2019 17:53:35 GMT -5
Maybe it's just me but parents tend to have a boatload of pull over athletes. We've seen it across all sports. If Dad comes flat out and says he doesn't want his son playing for the Boston Celtics and they have no loyalty .. that's like a gigantic red flag.
Rich Paul/LeBron/his dad ... You've gotta be ballsy to go up against that if your the Celtics. As a Nuggets fan I'd roll the dice with 1.5 years, but not 1 year.
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Post by funky on Feb 5, 2019 18:00:20 GMT -5
I read they can't really make an attractive offer until the summer and something happens with the Irving and Tatum contracts. Dunno the details though. No I meant like nba rules prevent them from making any trade for Davis
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Post by LotharBraunBrownBryant on Feb 5, 2019 18:11:33 GMT -5
Murray/Jauncho/MPJ is a better offer. We aren't offering that. We aren't taking Hill's contract back. We aren't adding two 1st rounders. I mean... we certainly could, and I think it'd be a good trade for 2 playoffs of AD. We'd have to get back AD + Jrue to make the future roster work. Solomon Hill's contract only goes into next season so it's not like a mega-albatross or anything, but it would be something we'd want to find a third team to take on (or have NO or a third team take on Garris, to dodge the tax this season) and we could do Murray/Juancho/MPJ with Millsap+Lydon to make the salaries work.
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Post by nuggetshipster on Feb 5, 2019 18:22:39 GMT -5
I'm not saying the set of players with Welsh is equivalent to the Lakers package. I'm just being hyperbolic because honestly, the Lakers package isn't that good. I don't see likely star potential in any of those players except Ingram. This idea that, well, "we offered such a big package" is like... only if you think the Lakers' young guys are really good. I don't, so I see it as a meh package. IMO Murray/Juancho/MPJ offer at least similar potential to the Lakers player package. And yeah, Murray's advanced stats aren't great this year, but he's also been playing hurt, and he's shown quite a bit of potential the last 2 years. So this idea that the Lakers offered a great package and nobody else can match it... nah. We can match it, maybe beat it if NO likes some of our other young guys like Vando or Cancar. I agree. Murray/Jauncho/MPJ is a better offer. We aren't offering that. We aren't taking Hill's contract back. We aren't adding two 1st rounders. Not for 1.5 years, let alone in the offseason for 1 season. People can match the offer. I've never said they can't. It's who will? Who's willing to give up a s**t ton for a guy liking s**t on Instagram, deeply connected to LeBron/Rich Paul? I'd offer the Murray package straight up right now, I seriously doubt TC will. If they do trade Murray I want Jrue. And I don't think we'd have to give up MPJ honestly, I'd rather give future 1sts
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Post by rock on Feb 5, 2019 18:26:06 GMT -5
Obviously the lakers trade package is better than ours. Because they get AD for 5 years and we’d only get him for 1.5. Why should we offer more? They are getting far more in return than we would.
But if AD came with an extension our offer could destroy the lakers. Not even close.
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Post by blackhill on Feb 5, 2019 18:36:56 GMT -5
Best case scenario for Nugs is this drags out until summer, maybe Nugs will be on AD's list then.
Also hoping Conley does not land on Jazz.
Finally, please take on a little expiring salary to get a 2nd in the draft even if this means waiving our Beloved Owl
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Post by JB on Feb 5, 2019 18:38:00 GMT -5
look at this from NOs perspective.
will the Lakers young core grow into a competitive playoff team or will they be just good enough to keep us in NBA purgatory when we should be tanking for a top pick? has Kuzma proved he's anything more than a gunner that doesn't contribute much else to wins? Brandon Ingram has low basketball IQ, is inconsistent and takes bad shots but we will be obliged to give him a max contract when his rookie deal is up. is he a centerpiece we can build around or will he be the next Andrew Wiggins and tank our financial flexibility? and for cherry on top of this s**t sundae, Lonzo Ball is refusing to suit up for us.
so yeah, 4 FRPs and 2 2nds will make up the difference.
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