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Post by LotharBraunBrownBryant on Feb 14, 2021 14:19:59 GMT -5
These concepts — procedure, precedent — are established in the legal system, but impeachment is a political tool, not a legal tool Impeachment is a political tool with specific Constitutional requirements, as well as specific expectations based on the historical development from the Magna Carta all the way to 1787, and later court cases. If you'd prefer to use vocabulary other than "procedure" and "precedent", have fun, but the concepts are still relevant. Indeed, you yourself bring a criticism of McConnell's procedural comment about scheduling, and how such a precedent conflicts with the reasoning in the Federalist papers. Sounds like Cocaine Mitch was treating it as a political tool where procedure and precedent aren't established. GG.
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Post by scooter on Feb 14, 2021 14:31:24 GMT -5
NO question, McConnell is an azzhole, but he's shrewd and has more functioning braincells than ALL Trump supporters combined. Although he's repulsive, it's too bad Democrats have nobody in his league politically. If we did, Republicans would be out of business permanently as of today. I wouldn’t give McConnell too much credit. The Senate is incredibly undemocratic and that creates a very uneven playing field in a lot of respects. It conveys seniority and power on Senators from solidly red or solidly blue states. If McConnell was from a more competitive state, he’d have to work a lot harder and be less craven just to stay in office. He can pull things like the Merrick Garland indefinite confirmation delay both because he himself faces no election backlash risk, and because most of his caucus is quite secure in their seats.
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Post by scooter on Feb 14, 2021 14:49:41 GMT -5
These concepts — procedure, precedent — are established in the legal system, but impeachment is a political tool, not a legal tool Impeachment is a political tool with specific Constitutional requirements, as well as specific expectations based on the historical development from the Magna Carta all the way to 1787, and later court cases. If you'd prefer to use vocabulary other than "procedure" and "precedent", have fun, but the concepts are still relevant. The Constitutional requirements are minimal and mostly vague, aside from the specified vote requirements. I don’t agree there are “specific” requirements based on expectations from history or case law. In Nixon v. United States, 506 U.S. 224 (1993)(involving federal judge Walter Nixon), the US Supreme Court decided unanimously that a question of whether the Senate had properly tried an impeachment was political in nature and could not be resolved in the courts. The decision in that case has never been overturned or even narrowed, and as a result it remains settled US law. The House determines its rules for Articles of Impeachment. The Senate determines its rules for each trial of impeachment. Each body retains the right to change those rules on majority vote.
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Post by TNF on Feb 14, 2021 15:03:53 GMT -5
McConnell made up his own rules regarding the acceptance of the article of impeachment. The article was written and ready to present, and McConnell said he wouldn't accept it until Inauguration Day. Then he turns around and says it failed to qualify per jurisdiction because it began too late.
To me, he sounded like a person who killed their parents and then begs for mercy because they're now an orphan, the definition of "chutzpah".
However, he and I agree Trump should be charged criminally.
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Post by GBG on Feb 14, 2021 15:31:46 GMT -5
I have something to say about the “undemocratic US Senate”. Yes, it is undemocratic, but that’s not all. The entire US Federal Government is undemocratic! And has been for quite some time, only it’s getting worse. Minority rule, as a result, will be the unfortunate reality of this situation a majority of the time.
The House of Representatives is hardly “representative” of the people, either. Gerrymandering is getting even more extreme, and the GOP has a real chance to retake control of the House in 2022, even with a minority of voters casting their votes for a Republican House candidate. The 2020 Census, I suspect, was doctored or incompletely executed to the detriment of minority populations in various states. Redrawing of maps in 2021 will likely be more extreme and nonsensical than it was in 2011, after the GOP took control of more legislatures in 2010 wave election, the same year of the prior census.
The US presidential election remains an undemocratic process, starting with the primary systems being different for the two major parties, with proportional delegate allocations in the Dem primaries versus winner-take-all in GOP primaries. Big money, and big donors, with Citizens United still not overturned and money in politics being obscene, SuperPACS and all, create barriers to entry for otherwise viable candidates, though Bernie Sanders showed that large pools of small donors can make for a viable candidate. But we have yet to see such a candidate win his/her party’s nomination. It’s a corrupt system. Finally, I need not mention the Electoral College, which remains anchored in our electoral system. It’s not just undemocratic, it’s dangerous. We’ve now seen how the EC can give rise to passions from false claims of fraud, which can and recently has led to violence. Not sure when we have a realistic chance to rid ourselves of the EC.
The Judicial branch has become politicized and undemocratic, as a result of federal judges and SCOTUS nominees being subject to US Senate confirmation, or in the case of McConnell, fast-tracked when it’s a GOP presidential nominee, or blocked or slow-walked when it’s a DEM presidential nominee. Worst of all, these are lifetime appointments made by the least democratic legislative body.
Thus, all three branches of of the federal government are undemocratic. I find it laughable when Democratic politicians say they are for preserving our democracy, as opposed to Trumpists, when one doesn’t even really exist at the federal level anyway! At least today’s GOP doesn’t pretend to be for preserving a democracy that doesn’t exist. They are simply American Fascists, authoritarians in pursuit of a Christofascist state. Dems are >>>> GOP because they are inclusive, pluralistic, and secular, nominally for democracy. But the truth is our system is broken and doesn’t resemble a true democratic system at federal level.
Perhaps HR-1 and S-1 will become law of the land this year, which will improve things, especially with respect to voter access. But we need much more. This is what I liked about Elizabeth Warren’s campaign. She was the only candidate stressing the systemic corruption that needs to be fixed, first and foremost. No sense in pursuing dramatic bold initiatives such as M4A, GND, or UBI until and unless anti-corruption laws are enacted first. And until more democratic reforms are put in place, because any new revolutionary progressive programs will be undone once the other party takes control again, or be tossed by the GOP-appointed federal judicial system on “constitutional grounds”.
Our country’s government, in short, is a mess!
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Post by TNF on Feb 14, 2021 15:42:33 GMT -5
Everything about the country is a mess. "Rule" breakers and "rule" manipulators control the system. It's not new, but it's getting worse, not better.
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Post by GBG on Feb 14, 2021 15:45:43 GMT -5
Everything about the country is a mess. "Rule" breakers and "rule" manipulators control the system. It's not new, but it's getting worse, not better. Trump and Trumpism was/is a symptom of the disease. Not the disease. That’s why, if Trump died today of a heart attack, we’d still be stuck with the 74 million voters who saw fit to vote for his re-election. Among America’s enemies, foreign and domestic, by FAR domestic is the greater and more immediate threat. We’ve seen the enemy, and it is US! I fear that after this exhausting four year era of Trump, the electorate will turn apathetic again. Turnout in 2022 is likely to be low, especially compared to 2020, and this is when the political predators and villains can take advantage. I fear Dem control of the two branches is very fragile and bound to be shortlived.
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Post by TNF on Feb 14, 2021 16:43:38 GMT -5
Hmmm...sort of sounds like conspiracy stuff...but we never heard anything about this tape.
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Post by TNF on Feb 14, 2021 16:50:27 GMT -5
If that happened, I, for one, would celebrate...heartily...
That reminds me, I need some more champagne.
There is NO WAY he makes it to 2024. His imminent demise is certainly part of the Cruz/Hawley/Hailey plan. All three would stab him in the back if they ever got the opportunity, and he, them. After they've been used a little more.
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Post by GBG on Feb 14, 2021 17:09:13 GMT -5
Yeah, that guy is an expert on fascism and perhaps reading too much into the video on the big screen at that rally. Then again, Trumpism is fascism and subliminal messaging (such as the Hollywood Sign at the start of the rally video) is suggestive of a need to fight back against “those Hollywood Elites”.
People are suggesting a 9/11 bipartisan congressional inquiry into the 1/6 insurrection. I’m sure stuff like this would be noted in their report of the day.
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Post by GBG on Feb 14, 2021 17:14:42 GMT -5
If that happened, I, for one, would celebrate...heartily... That reminds me, I need some more champagne. There is NO WAY he makes it to 2024. His imminent demise is certainly part of the Cruz/Hawley/Hailey plan. All three would stab him in the back if they ever got the opportunity, and he, them. After they've been used a little more. Now that the impeachment trial is over, I think it would be healthy for us to forget about Trump for a while. Personally, I don’t want to think about him again, unless and until he’s perp walked and standing trial. I know the media, desperate for ratings, will try to keep Trump stories alive. Such as, “What will Trump do next?!” type stories, or coverage of his next rally that he might hold, or future interviews. I fear that the media will continue to put Trump in front of our eyes to keep us watching. MSNBC ratings this year are likely to drop 30% otherwise. I hope they stop giving him the oxygen he craves. But yes, the day he dies will be a happy day for our side, but I’d rather see him live beyond age 90.......in a federal prison!
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Post by TNF on Feb 14, 2021 20:47:43 GMT -5
Just took a break to play my drums for the first time in ages. I was a good drummer once, a long time ago, in a galaxy, far, far away... we had fans. My ex was a groupie...
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Post by hated sticky on Feb 17, 2021 1:47:25 GMT -5
99 problems but a b***h ain’t one HIT ME
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Post by TNF on Feb 17, 2021 15:04:28 GMT -5
LIMBAUGH IS DEAD !!!
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Post by freakns on Feb 19, 2021 16:51:53 GMT -5
this isn't politics... nor its something you are going to be interested in... but I just need to write it down, cause its still surreal to me... today, on February 19th 2021. world has lost Djordje Balasevic. corona took him from us... he was 67 biggest Serbian chansonnier. no, sorry, let me rephrase that. biggest Yugoslavian chansonnier. he was the first Serbian perform in Sarajevo after the war. even today, 30 years after Yugoslavia was no more, I guarantee you everyone in Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, they all know who Balasevic is. not was. who he is. he is the guy who wrote "Ziveti Slobodno" ("Live Freely") and perform it with us, students, during protests against Milosevic. he is the guy who wrote "Znate li pricu o Vasi Ladackom" ("Do you know a story about Vasa Ladacki"), one of the saddest and most beautiful songs ever written on Serbian, a song about which they even made a movie... I know every word of at least 30 songs he wrote. he wrote couple of TV comedies, dozens of books... his every concert was new experience. couple of minutes of stand up comedy, then chanson. I really dont know to whom I can compare him. going to his concert was like going to Charles Aznavour and George Carlin in same time... Rest in Peace ps. sorry guys... I know this is not the place for this.
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Post by JB on Feb 19, 2021 18:13:56 GMT -5
terrible news. monumental loss.
the more you read about Djordje the more you realize what an unifying figure he was to the former Yugoslav states.
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Post by GBG on Feb 19, 2021 18:59:21 GMT -5
terrible news. monumental loss. the more you read about Djordje the more you realize what an unifying figure he was to the former Yugoslav states. Sorry for your losses. JB, I was always under impression you were American, I guess you are Serbian.
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Post by JB on Feb 19, 2021 19:06:55 GMT -5
I'm not Serb and haven't heard of Djordje before today but I'll still accept your condolences lol.
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Post by freakns on Feb 20, 2021 14:31:19 GMT -5
if you wish to become Serb, we will accept you and as baboon said, its monumental loss, not only for Serbia, but for all Yugoslav states... maybe this will share to you how big Balasevic is. Jokic, after being asked on Serbian about how great this day is, regarding game, his birthday and all star, his response was "its not great day, we lost Balasevic". but this is even bigger. If you go to Croatia, and write something on Cyrillic, it would be same if you go to Bronx, wearing white hood and start burning crosses. Cyrillic letter to them is worst possible thing. Balasevic had verse in one of his songs "Da mi je još jedared proći Ilicom, pa da bećarac napišem ćirilicom" or translated "That I still can go through Ilica once more, so that I can write bećarac in Cyrillic". Ilica is part of Zagreb, capitol of Croatia. This was taken yesterday, in Ilica/Zagreb/Croatia it says "becarac" in Cyrillic.
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Post by TNF on Feb 21, 2021 6:51:41 GMT -5
Best thoughts to all our Serbian (and Yugoslav) friends on this board in your loss.
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