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Post by nuggetshipster on Mar 16, 2012 22:59:08 GMT -5
those are two solid picks (was and gsw)
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Post by nugzin2040 on Mar 16, 2012 23:25:53 GMT -5
It's a great trade if McGee works OR if the cap space works OR if Nene loses value. It's only a bad trade if all three go the other way. I do think we had other options, but not necessarily options with as many different forms of upside. McGee has upside. Flipping the trade exception and some picks for a good player has upside. (Remember, it was a trade exception that allowed us to pull the AI for Billups trade.) We could conceivably keep McGee for an AAA type deal and still use the exception. I don't think we were getting a lottery pick for Nene, not in this draft. I think the key observation is that Nene was a known quantity, and not giving us what we wanted. This is a roll of the dice to some degree, but IMO it's the right type of dice roll -- younger, bigger, and in need of coaching. It's possible McGee won't pan out, we won't use the cap space for a better player, and Nene will give the Wiz the production we'd been hoping for (or that they'll flip him for some even better assets). But it's also possible that McGee will pan out and we'll also be able to do something good with the financial flexibility. I guess I don't think what Nene does particularly matters. If he performs well in Washington, it's probably at least partially because he's more motivated to prove what kind of a player he is. If we had kept him, he might never have been that kind of player... still be the same laid back player. Same way with McGee. If he explodes as a top 3 center, that's probably at least a part due to the Nuggets organization/his motivation and not something that would have happened had Washington kept him. To me, it comes down to what we could get for Nene. The cap space we could have gotten by not signing Nene in the off-season. I'd hope that we could get more then that for Nene. But guess there is no way to know what were the other offers available, and it is true the Nets deal may not have been available. I'd think that it might still be available since the Nets were looking seriously at signing Nene to do a long-term deal last off-season. Maybe, that interest changed. Maybe McGee was a better asset in the Nuggets eyes. It does sound like Denver signed Nene with the intention of trading him later. Which is certainly their right, but I do worry about how the rest of the team will deal with the trade. Shows to everyone that anyone could be traded, anywhere.
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Post by rock on Mar 16, 2012 23:33:01 GMT -5
the more hear about the deal, the more im ok with.
no i dont like it. just accepting of it.
it really depends on what happens to mcgee and what we can do with our TE/cap space.
i hope we can hang onto a playoff spot but its gonna be tough. our half court offense is going to be just awful. mcgee cant do anything but dunk.
and i hope mcgee has his head on straight but he may only do that for 20 games to get a nice deal. no more than 8 mill per and only because hes tall.
honestly id rather he walk and if we do have 18 mill in cap space (hope thats true) id just go after 2 guys for about 8-10 mill each. you can get two guys better than mcgee and AL. wed have a nice future then. (or at the very worst sign a 10 mill per player and keep mcgee?)
but at some point we still need to either use that TE to get a nice player or trade 2 or 3 guys for a star that a team is looking to dump. those players will be around at some point when teams realize how much money they owe. hopefully our smart financial moves allow us to take advantage of other teams.
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Post by rock on Mar 16, 2012 23:34:19 GMT -5
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Post by rock on Mar 16, 2012 23:39:48 GMT -5
watching this video it makes me hope he just sticks to his role as a shot blocker/rebounder. i actually almost got excited about this deal after watching that.
no need to get crazy on either end. like a poor mans mutombo.
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Post by Camby's Left Nut on Mar 16, 2012 23:53:36 GMT -5
Or a stronger, more athletic, less injury prone version of Camby. Including the occasional dumb s**t.
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Post by Phonzie20 on Mar 16, 2012 23:54:21 GMT -5
the only plus side is that nene's not gonna be missing 1/2 the season for us, every season, anymore. So you get the point of the trade then. Good riddance
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Post by GoldNugg21 on Mar 17, 2012 0:00:06 GMT -5
I'm with you there. I obviously am not super high on the trade, but I am excited to see McGee and see if he can turn his career around. It would be awesome.
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Post by denbutsu on Mar 17, 2012 0:04:10 GMT -5
He'll have a better coaching and training staff to work with him, give him guidance, and help him focus his talent more constructively. He'll be a part of a better, healthier, more positive organization. The change of scenery factor alone should be pretty damn helpful right from the start. Plus he's evidently really tired of being ridiculed and has something to prove.
He's got truckloads of athleticism and talent, and even though he's been in the league a few years he's still young, with plenty of room for development. Talent-wise, he's a perfect fit for Denver. He can run the floor as good as any big his size.
Those blooper clips bring the facepalms, and there are real reasons to worry. But stacking them up, I think there are more points in the "cautiously optimistic" column.
And, if the Nuggets need to clear a little space to give him a contract, the older version of the same player can be amnestied or (maybe) traded.
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Post by GoldNugg21 on Mar 17, 2012 0:09:55 GMT -5
He'll have a better coaching and training staff to work with him, give him guidance, and help him focus his talent more constructively. He'll be a part of a better, healthier, more positive organization. The change of scenery factor alone should be pretty damn helpful right from the start. Plus he's evidently really tired of being ridiculed and has something to prove. He's got truckloads of athleticism and talent, and even though he's been in the league a few years he's still young, with plenty of room for development. Talent-wise, he's a perfect fit for Denver. He can run the floor as good as any big his size. Those blooper clips bring the facepalms, and there are real reasons to worry. But stacking them up, I think there are more points in the "cautiously optimistic" column. And, if the Nuggets need to clear a little space to give him a contract, the older version of the same player can be amnestied or (maybe) traded. A few notes on this. First, I agree that there is reason for optimism, and I trust that Masai did his fair share of looking into McGee and his situation before he pulled this trigger. However, Karl is not likely to be any easier on the ridicule level as anyone has been in the past, so that could be a problem. Granted, McGee doesn't seem like the same kind of retard as JR, so hopefully he doesn't clash as bad, but the worry is there. Finally, I feel like Bird may have finally found a wingmate, as it were.
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Post by denbutsu on Mar 17, 2012 0:20:33 GMT -5
Yeah, I don't think JaVale is the "skip practice to go shopping" type. More like the weak court sense/get confused type. I tried to dig a little on google, but I couldn't find practically anything in the way of off-court issues or things like being late for practice (etc.).
Another thing, eventually I want Harrington and Miller gone, but it's probably good that there are at least a couple of vets on the roster who can school him a little.
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Post by GoldNugg21 on Mar 17, 2012 0:25:46 GMT -5
Yeah, I don't think JaVale is the "skip practice to go shopping" type. More like the weak court sense/get confused type. I tried to dig a little on google, but I couldn't find practically anything in the way of off-court issues or things like being late for practice (etc.). Another thing, eventually I want Harrington and Miller gone, but it's probably good that there are at least a couple of vets on the roster who can school him a little. I actually think Harrington should be kept to the end of his deal. Miller should be gone in the offseason no question, but Al seems like a great guy to have in a locker room, isn't really all that expensive, and still has several years of solid contribution left in him. Additionally, he's accepted and flourished in the bench role. Unless you're getting a good upgrade, I don't think there's a reason to oust him.
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Post by Camby's Left Nut on Mar 17, 2012 0:29:19 GMT -5
Yeah, he seems like a fairly good kid. Stupid, sure. But it's not like he's out there getting DUIs or killing his people with his vehicle or punching people in clubs or getting busted with weed. Just an immature kid who likely lacked discipline and perspective growing up having two professional athletes for parents. Either way, I'm not worried about whatever 'off the court issues' there are.
He actually seems like someone who loves the game and wants to be the best player he can be. He obviously lacks fundamentals, but if he is willing to listen to the coaches and take what they try to teach him to heart, he shouldn't have the same problems with Karl that other guys have had.
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Post by GoldNugg21 on Mar 17, 2012 0:34:03 GMT -5
Should we be worried, though, that he lacks fundamentals, if his mother was a professional basketball player?
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Post by Tymes Rhymes on Mar 17, 2012 0:39:12 GMT -5
His mother is quite the eccentric personality. Will defend her son at any cost. It does say something though that he is this raw 4 years in and had two basketball parents. Worried? No.
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Post by brick2 on Mar 17, 2012 1:22:36 GMT -5
Yeah, he seems like a fairly good kid. Stupid, sure. But it's not like he's out there getting DUIs or killing his people with his vehicle or punching people in clubs or getting busted with weed. Just an immature kid who likely lacked discipline and perspective growing up having two professional athletes for parents. Either way, I'm not worried about whatever 'off the court issues' there are. He actually seems like someone who loves the game and wants to be the best player he can be. He obviously lacks fundamentals, but if he is willing to listen to the coaches and take what they try to teach him to heart, he shouldn't have the same problems with Karl that other guys have had. McGee has to "respect the game" and he should be ok with Karl. Whether he can is another matter.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2012 2:13:18 GMT -5
this trade will probably be another excuse for karl to keep his job after this season. yay.
one of these days we will have to kill the head of the snake. too bad that snake is in bed with kroenke.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2012 2:31:41 GMT -5
My favorite misconception about the NBA is how highly respected and thought of George Karl is as a coach. All you have to do is watch any Nugget game and you'll realize the guy has no clue. This is the same guy who preaches fast breaks and wants the Nuggets to run 24/7...yet he basically alluded in the Association that he wants Dre to be here for another contract. If that happens...kill me.
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Post by voodoo on Mar 17, 2012 3:59:17 GMT -5
watching this video it makes me hope he just sticks to his role as a shot blocker/rebounder. i actually almost got excited about this deal after watching that. no need to get crazy on either end. like a poor mans mutombo. There are some other clips on there: This one is pretty nice quality Koufos and Mozgov could benefit from going up against him on a daily basis. Koufos might start trying to dunk more and Moz might actually realize that he is 7'1" and not 6'1".
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Post by voodoo on Mar 17, 2012 4:09:40 GMT -5
Should we be worried, though, that he lacks fundamentals, if his mother was a professional basketball player? That Wizards team has been a cluster _uck for quite a few years. For example: Arenas and the other clown gambling and threatening one another with guns. I forget the other guys name, but he has a murder rap now and Arenas is out of the league. It wasn't really the environment for a young player to gain any discipline or fundamental skills. Since that team was blown up, all they have done is go young and make trade after trade. Plus, the only other guy on the roster that was close to his size (Blatche) is always hurt and he is a headcase.
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