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Post by LotharBraunBrownBryant on Apr 11, 2024 20:19:50 GMT -5
They don't understand this: the voters are more sophisticated than these pundits, on average. The pundits are like "yeah I guess advanced stats, but not really". But voters recognize that advanced stats tend to match up pretty well with what they think is important -- not just big counting stats, but efficiency and impact. And the winner almost always leads in multiple advanced stats. Well ... Joker is leading in all of them. And not by a little. By a huge amount. When Joker won MVP as a 6 seed, he had that going for him -- he was way ahead in the advanced numbers, and he was playing with a potato supporting cast (most of his teammates are either bench guys or out of the league now.) Luka doesn't have that going for him. He *only* has massive scoring in his favor. |
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Post by passtheballquick on Apr 11, 2024 20:30:26 GMT -5
Lol, but from my experience that's how people outside of America see all Americans. Like those 2 |
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Post by somborshuffle on Apr 11, 2024 21:15:51 GMT -5
I mean, it's a debate show with an emphasis on "entertainment" rather than cutting edge analysis.
No way Broussard actually believes what he said.
So I get what they're doing.
But the reality is that if the Nuggets do finish with the 1-seed then Jokic would be a unanimous MVP if it wasn't for that 5-strong voting block that refuse to vote for him.
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Post by sawyeral on Apr 11, 2024 21:53:10 GMT -5
Listening to Keshawn Johnson analyze basketball is like listening to a pro bowler try to breakdown the nfl playoffs. In a wasteland of s**t that is hot take sports media, he still stands out as the most putrid, vomit-inducing personality. |
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Post by famicommander on Apr 11, 2024 21:55:33 GMT -5
Ingram will return for the Pelicans in the final regular season game, but Zion just left the game with an apparent wrist or hand injury
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Post by famicommander on Apr 11, 2024 22:32:24 GMT -5
Today I learned Nugs two-way forward Braxton Key is a nephew of Ralph Sampson.
I also saw that even our 16th man is a winner. Key has:
a high school state championship
a high school national championship
an NCAA Division I National Championship
an NBA G-League Championship
Booth certainly has a type.
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Post by famicommander on Apr 11, 2024 23:49:11 GMT -5
Kenny and Shaq stumping for SGA to be MVP, saying he has been more impactful than Joker. Chuck says it should be Ant because they won without Towns, again ignoring that Murray missed more games than Towns.
Clowns.
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Post by Ring on Apr 12, 2024 9:45:47 GMT -5
Kenny and Shaq stumping for SGA to be MVP, saying he has been more impactful than Joker. Chuck says it should be Ant because they won without Towns, again ignoring that Murray missed more games than Towns. Clowns. Literally no one should get a first place vote other than Jokic or Luka. Anyone who watches guys like SGA/Ant recognizes that they're great players but they're nowhere near the level of a Jokic or a Doncic. |
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Post by bignuggets on Apr 12, 2024 10:13:03 GMT -5
Ernie Johnson is the only one without an agenda.
They were trying to say Jokic’s supporting cast is way better than OKC’s. Ernie reminded them that Nikola doesn’t have another all-star on the team.
SGA as an MVP is stupid.
It’s true what they said about Luka. There was no hype for him as an MVP until late. It was Embiid vs. Jokic.
I can see why people think Luka deserves it. I hate how they say Jokic got it as a 6th seed even though Murray was out. It was awesome what Jokic did that year without Jamal.
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Post by sawyeral on Apr 12, 2024 10:37:06 GMT -5
For years people have been trying to figure out what quantifies ‘most valuable’. Everyone has settled on that being on a winning team is non-negotiable.
Otherwise, advanced metrics now do a pretty good job of quantifying how much you help your team win. And Jokic absolutely owns these stats across the board, and has for half a decade. Clearly the mvp voters see it the same way.
Personally I’d be fine with Luka or SGA…because the award has classically suffered from voter fatigue and politics…and it’s never really told you who the best player was year to year anyways.
Plus Joker just doesn’t give a s**t and is tired of talking about it.
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Post by JB on Apr 12, 2024 11:27:31 GMT -5
important to remember ESPN (and TNT) are not PBS and are driven exclusively by the profit motive and not rational discourse, even beloved figures like the Round Mound of Rebound himself Charles Barkley understand that saying "Jokic is quite obviously the MVP" every season does not drive engagement and they have to manufacture different narratives to keep the casuals interested.
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Post by GBG on Apr 12, 2024 11:33:08 GMT -5
All the media and social media (and this forum’s) MVP talk is moot and a waste of time.
Jokic is now -10000 on DraftKings to win it.
Luka is +2000
SGA is +3000
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Post by famicommander on Apr 12, 2024 11:56:42 GMT -5
Kenny and Shaq stumping for SGA to be MVP, saying he has been more impactful than Joker. Chuck says it should be Ant because they won without Towns, again ignoring that Murray missed more games than Towns. Clowns. Literally no one should get a first place vote other than Jokic or Luka. Anyone who watches guys like SGA/Ant recognizes that they're great players but they're nowhere near the level of a Jokic or a Doncic. Luka getting a first place vote is utterly ludicrous. He probably will, but he doesn't deserve one. Jokic is the MVP and it's not even remotely close. It should be unanimous. Box score totals: Points: Jokic 5th, Luka 1st Rebounds: Jokic 3rd, Luka 16th Assists: Jokic 2nd, Luka 3rd Steals: Jokic 9th, Luka 12th Blocks: Jokic 32nd, Luka 107th Turnovers: Jokic 9th, Luka 1st Advanced: PER: Jokic 1st, Luka 4th WS: Jokic 1st, Luka 5th OWS: Jokic 1st, Luka 5th DWS: Jokic 2nd, Luka 16th WS/48: Jokic 1st, Luka 5th BPM: Jokic 1st, Luka 2nd OBPM: Jokic 1st, Luka 2nd DPBM: Jokic 1st, Luka 17th VORP: Jokic 1st, Luka 2nd Ortg: Jokic 4th, Luka 127th Drtg: Jokic 6th, Luka 78th TS%: Jokic 10th, Luka 39th PIE: Jokic 1st, Luka 2nd Net Rtg: Jokic 6th, Luka 100th EPM: Jokic 5th, Luka 3rd |
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Post by Ring on Apr 12, 2024 11:59:47 GMT -5
Luka is averaging nearly a 34 point triple double. Of course he should get some first place votes. They finished with 50+ wins. If Luka and Jokic flipped seeding Luka would be the MVP and it wouldn't be close.
You also have to be fair and point out that a good amount of advanced stats favor bigs. If the Nuggets and Mavs take care of business we will be getting Luka vs Jokic in Round 2 which is very scary.
As I've said all year, the only way to beat Denver is to outscore them with elite talent. The Mavs can do that.
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Post by famicommander on Apr 12, 2024 12:03:40 GMT -5
Luka is averaging nearly a 34 point triple double. Of course he should get some first place votes. They finished with 50+ wins. If Luka and Jokic flipped seeding Luka would be the MVP and it wouldn't be close. You also have to be fair and point out that a good amount of advanced stats favor bigs. If the Nuggets and Mavs take care of business we will be getting Luka vs Jokic in Round 2 which is very scary. As I've said all year, the only way to beat Denver is to outscore them with elite talent. The Mavs can do that. Who cares what he's averaging if his numbers are drastically inferior to Jokic? Because they are. Jokic won more games in a much tougher division with a weaker supporting cast while putting up way better numbers. The advanced stats favor Jokic not because he's a big, but because Luka is quite literally a negative value player without the ball in his hands. He's a top tier HOF player when he has the ball, but he's a ridiculously bad defender and he's almost completely passive on offense without the ball. He doesn't cut, he doesn't screen, he doesn't box out, he doesn't move without the ball. At the very most he'll move around some when they're calling a play to get him a jumper in his favorite spots, but that's it. That's why Luka's impact numbers never correlate to his box score stats like they do for guys like Giannis, Embiid, Jokic, Curry, LeBron, etc. Because he's only engaged on one end of the floor, and only when the game is close, and only when he has the ball. In all other instances he absolutely doesn't care. |
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Post by JB on Apr 12, 2024 12:18:36 GMT -5
Nuggets are #1 in the West with the weakest bench in the NBA and with his #2 being forced to prop up the bench all season.
Nikola Jokic was forced to play 1012 (and counting) minutes with Reggie Jackson this season. I agree with fami, Luka doesn't deserve a single 1st place vote.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2024 21:54:33 GMT -5
Go Phoenix and Go Golden State
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2024 22:20:06 GMT -5
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Post by jimijam28 on Apr 12, 2024 22:29:11 GMT -5
one team that is happy- lakers - they wont play nug in the 1st round
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Post by stealingfire on Apr 12, 2024 22:37:23 GMT -5
Is there any reason we don’t rest Jok on Sunday to try to guarantee the 3 seed? That would give us the Pels, which would be a nice first round and if we lose then Minny has the tiebreaker over OKC so if they both win which is likely then it’s OKC at 2, which would be a better round 2 than the Wolves.
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