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Post by wizardofcozz on May 8, 2023 12:07:57 GMT -5
one more thing. game 2: 7-27 for 3 game 3: 10-30 for 3 game 4: 7-22 for 3 game 1: 16-37 for 3 during regular season, per game: 11.8 - 31.2 3 points so one time Nuggets score 12 3s or more, they had easy win. so Nuggets simply need to shoot more then 30 three pointers and score on 35% or more. I agree. The issue is that the nuggets don't have anyone who can consistently create off the bounce, like some of the elite players can. Murray needs to PnR to get going downhill, and right now he isn't finishing well enough or shooting well enough to force enough help consistently, and when we are open we aren't making shots. |
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Post by Ring on May 8, 2023 12:28:01 GMT -5
one more thing. game 2: 7-27 for 3 game 3: 10-30 for 3 game 4: 7-22 for 3 game 1: 16-37 for 3 during regular season, per game: 11.8 - 31.2 3 points so one time Nuggets score 12 3s or more, they had easy win. so Nuggets simply need to shoot more then 30 three pointers and score on 35% or more. I agree. The issue is that the nuggets don't have anyone who can consistently create off the bounce, like some of the elite players can. Murray needs to PnR to get going downhill, and right now he isn't finishing well enough or shooting well enough to force enough help consistently, and when we are open we aren't making shots. This is another issue with Murrays game though. He's not able to beat anyone off the bounce so he can't break down a defense. If you can't get the defense to scramble, it's very hard to generate open 3s. |
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Post by wizardofcozz on May 8, 2023 12:40:48 GMT -5
I agree. The issue is that the nuggets don't have anyone who can consistently create off the bounce, like some of the elite players can. Murray needs to PnR to get going downhill, and right now he isn't finishing well enough or shooting well enough to force enough help consistently, and when we are open we aren't making shots. This is another issue with Murrays game though. He's not able to beat anyone off the bounce so he can't break down a defense. If you can't get the defense to scramble, it's very hard to generate open 3s. Exactly, you can see that Durant and Booker don't need a screen to get going downhill. Murray does. It's that simple. It doesn't mean Murray is a bad player, but, and I've felt this for a while, that Murray is better as either a high-octane bench scorer or a 3rd option on a championship team. There's a reason he hasn't made an all-star game. The bubble playoffs is both a gift and a curse, it shows what he can be at times, but there is the flip-side too. If we never had bubble Murray would anyone here be doubting that we need to upgrade our 2nd option. Again that's easier said than done, but he's pounding hte ball to much cause he can't get downhill and he's being targeted more than jokic is on defense. |
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Post by Ring on May 8, 2023 12:46:33 GMT -5
This is another issue with Murrays game though. He's not able to beat anyone off the bounce so he can't break down a defense. If you can't get the defense to scramble, it's very hard to generate open 3s. Exactly, you can see that Durant and Booker don't need a screen to get going downhill. Murray does. It's that simple. It doesn't mean Murray is a bad player, but, and I've felt this for a while, that Murray is better as either a high-octane bench scorer or a 3rd option on a championship team. There's a reason he hasn't made an all-star game. The bubble playoffs is both a gift and a curse, it shows what he can be at times, but there is the flip-side too. If we never had bubble Murray would anyone here be doubting that we need to upgrade our 2nd option. Again that's easier said than done, but he's pounding hte ball to much cause he can't get downhill and he's being targeted more than jokic is on defense. The defensive issues are a much bigger concern for me right now. If you go back and watch Shamets 2nd 3 of the 4Q, Murray gave such little effort on the closeout. His legs were dead. The first Shamet 3 was just a rise and shoot over him situation, but why are you giving Shamet any space at all? The guys entire game is to shoot 3s. Make him put the ball on the floor. |
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Post by scooter on May 8, 2023 12:50:16 GMT -5
Can't play DAJ. He'll get killed in drop. Don't even think that's worth trying. Regarding pressuring Booker up the floor, I don't think it's a bad idea to wear him out and it is very weird that it hasn't been tried yet. Booker is already getting past those guys with ease. Not sure why it hasn't been implemented. The limitation is there are only three players on the roster capable of that — Brown, Braun and Watson. Braun has scored 6 points in 4 games, which kind of proves that this is an entirely different level of play and it is highly probable that the skill set of rookies ain’t up to it. I think that’s the problem with the full court pressure idea. The Nuggets don’t have the depth. |
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Post by scooter on May 8, 2023 12:52:17 GMT -5
Big picture is the Nuggets have scored 16 points more than the Suns despite Booker playing 2 levels higher than he ever has before and Durant playing at his best. These are the best games in the NBA.
Nuggets fans shouldn’t be too negative.
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Post by wizardofcozz on May 8, 2023 12:54:05 GMT -5
Exactly, you can see that Durant and Booker don't need a screen to get going downhill. Murray does. It's that simple. It doesn't mean Murray is a bad player, but, and I've felt this for a while, that Murray is better as either a high-octane bench scorer or a 3rd option on a championship team. There's a reason he hasn't made an all-star game. The bubble playoffs is both a gift and a curse, it shows what he can be at times, but there is the flip-side too. If we never had bubble Murray would anyone here be doubting that we need to upgrade our 2nd option. Again that's easier said than done, but he's pounding hte ball to much cause he can't get downhill and he's being targeted more than jokic is on defense. The defensive issues are a much bigger concern for me right now. If you go back and watch Shamets 2nd 3 of the 4Q, Murray gave such little effort on the closeout. His legs were dead. The first Shamet 3 was just a rise and shoot over him situation, but why are you giving Shamet any space at all? The guys entire game is to shoot 3s. Make him put the ball on the floor. I don't understand why they have Murray bring it up, if the other team is going to full court press him. Have someone else bring it up, and then get it to Jokic and run our handoffs and PnR that way, why waste Murray's energy so much bringing it up. Also why aren't we doing that to Booker? Completely agree on guarding Shamet. I've coached HS basketball for 16 years, and defense is always about taking stuff away and what your willing to give up. We have to do a better job of taking away the things Phoenix is best at. They purposely put in Shamet because we were giving up the corner 3 to lousy shooters, so they removed their lousy shooters, but we have to punish those weaker defenders on the other end and we can't be leaving open shooters who can actually shoot. I remember one play in the 4th where I believe Durant had the ball and Londale was coming to screen and Durant waived him off. Phoenix knows that Jokic is guarding well and so they have moved to targeting Murray on screens. But like you said, it comes down to just being smart. We can gamble leaving Payne, Okogie, and Craig open, can't do that with Shamet and Ross. |
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Post by passtheballquick on May 8, 2023 12:54:14 GMT -5
Exactly, you can see that Durant and Booker don't need a screen to get going downhill. Murray does. It's that simple. It doesn't mean Murray is a bad player, but, and I've felt this for a while, that Murray is better as either a high-octane bench scorer or a 3rd option on a championship team. There's a reason he hasn't made an all-star game. The bubble playoffs is both a gift and a curse, it shows what he can be at times, but there is the flip-side too. If we never had bubble Murray would anyone here be doubting that we need to upgrade our 2nd option. Again that's easier said than done, but he's pounding hte ball to much cause he can't get downhill and he's being targeted more than jokic is on defense. The defensive issues are a much bigger concern for me right now. If you go back and watch Shamets 2nd 3 of the 4Q, Murray gave such little effort on the closeout. His legs were dead. The first Shamet 3 was just a rise and shoot over him situation, but why are you giving Shamet any space at all? The guys entire game is to shoot 3s. Make him put the ball on the floor. Simply because Murray can't guard anybody on earth for 40mins. To make the things worse he even makes Jokic look worse on D. Unless Murray is making shots at a high clip we play 4 on 5 all the time. He's been 2 for 18 from 3 in the last 3 games so you wonder how we didn't lose all 3. Jokic can save one out of 3 but not all 3 |
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Post by Ring on May 8, 2023 13:01:25 GMT -5
The defensive issues are a much bigger concern for me right now. If you go back and watch Shamets 2nd 3 of the 4Q, Murray gave such little effort on the closeout. His legs were dead. The first Shamet 3 was just a rise and shoot over him situation, but why are you giving Shamet any space at all? The guys entire game is to shoot 3s. Make him put the ball on the floor. Simply because Murray can't guard anybody on earth for 40mins. To make the things worse he even makes Jokic look worse on D. Unless Murray is making shots at a high clip we play 4 on 5 all the time. He's been 2 for 18 from 3 on the last 3 games so you wonder how we didn't lose all 3. Jokic can save one out of 3 but not all 3 I don't think Jokic has looked bad defensively at all. The only guys who have really stood out to me in a negative way the last 2 games defensively were Murray, Jeff and AG. Bruce/KCP are trying but Booker is just too strong, big and athletic for them. It's like watching the shooting guard version of Kawhi. |
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Post by Ring on May 8, 2023 13:03:53 GMT -5
The defensive issues are a much bigger concern for me right now. If you go back and watch Shamets 2nd 3 of the 4Q, Murray gave such little effort on the closeout. His legs were dead. The first Shamet 3 was just a rise and shoot over him situation, but why are you giving Shamet any space at all? The guys entire game is to shoot 3s. Make him put the ball on the floor. I don't understand why they have Murray bring it up, if the other team is going to full court press him. Have someone else bring it up, and then get it to Jokic and run our handoffs and PnR that way, why waste Murray's energy so much bringing it up. Also why aren't we doing that to Booker? Completely agree on guarding Shamet. I've coached HS basketball for 16 years, and defense is always about taking stuff away and what your willing to give up. We have to do a better job of taking away the things Phoenix is best at. They purposely put in Shamet because we were giving up the corner 3 to lousy shooters, so they removed their lousy shooters, but we have to punish those weaker defenders on the other end and we can't be leaving open shooters who can actually shoot. I remember one play in the 4th where I believe Durant had the ball and Londale was coming to screen and Durant waived him off. Phoenix knows that Jokic is guarding well and so they have moved to targeting Murray on screens. But like you said, it comes down to just being smart. We can gamble leaving Payne, Okogie, and Craig open, can't do that with Shamet and Ross. They did do this a little bit yesterday with guys like KCP and AG bringing the ball up. But it doesn't matter because the actions are always going to start with Murray and that's when you're using the most energy. The Nuggets version of punishing weaker defends is by having Murray isolate in the post and he's nailed a lot of those shots but they do nothing to compromise another teams defense. Putting Murray in screens and having him trail compromises the entire defense because you can't let a player get a full head of steam towards the rim. |
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Post by BBBbbb on May 8, 2023 13:08:27 GMT -5
Murray has had some defensive brain farts last 2 games as well, that I don't even expect from MPJ now.
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Post by TNF on May 8, 2023 13:17:03 GMT -5
*
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Post by Coach Sticky on May 8, 2023 13:19:18 GMT -5
Post it in every thread out here please
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Post by scooter on May 8, 2023 13:19:56 GMT -5
Simply because Murray can't guard anybody on earth for 40mins. To make the things worse he even makes Jokic look worse on D. Unless Murray is making shots at a high clip we play 4 on 5 all the time. He's been 2 for 18 from 3 on the last 3 games so you wonder how we didn't lose all 3. Jokic can save one out of 3 but not all 3 You know what’s worse for the Nuggets than Booker and Durant making extremely difficult shots or the risk that one of their bench guys will get hot in some game — live ball turnovers leading to easy dunks, which could get the Nuggets beat by a team vastly inferior to the Suns. This obsession with sub-elite aspects of Murray’s game is tiresome because it ignores things that have the Nuggets 6-3 in the playoffs so far, including that Murray has 29 assists against 8 turnovers in this series. But sure, let’s just give half of Murray’s minutes to a combination of Brown and Braun and see how that goes. |
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Post by Ring on May 8, 2023 13:26:46 GMT -5
Simply because Murray can't guard anybody on earth for 40mins. To make the things worse he even makes Jokic look worse on D. Unless Murray is making shots at a high clip we play 4 on 5 all the time. He's been 2 for 18 from 3 on the last 3 games so you wonder how we didn't lose all 3. Jokic can save one out of 3 but not all 3 You know what’s worse for the Nuggets than Booker and Durant making extremely difficult shots or the risk that one of their bench guys will get hot in some game — live ball turnovers leading to easy dunks, which could get the Nuggets beat by a team vastly inferior to the Suns. This obsession with sub-elite aspects of Murray’s game is tiresome because it ignores things that have the Nuggets 6-3 in the playoffs so far, including that Murray has 29 assists against 8 turnovers in this series. But sure, let’s just give half of Murray’s minutes to a combination of Brown and Braun and see how that goes. Murray has to be better on both ends. MPJ needs to be better offensively. KCP and AG have to earn their $ on the defensive end. Bruce needs to be impactful. The last 2 games have been a disaster from everyone not named Jokic realistically (outside of MPJ in Game 3) No one has stepped up. No one has helped Jokic in the 4Q when it's really needed. |
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Post by Coach Sticky on May 8, 2023 13:33:49 GMT -5
/unsticky
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Post by rock on May 8, 2023 13:46:06 GMT -5
I feel like vegas knows something about jokic. The odds for game 5 are nuggets -5
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Post by Ring on May 8, 2023 13:47:57 GMT -5
I feel like vegas knows something about jokic. The odds for game 5 are nuggets -5 Feels like we should load up on Phoenix. I can't believe we're here but I genuinely trust Phoenix more. Sucks. |
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Post by passtheballquick on May 8, 2023 13:48:20 GMT -5
Simply because Murray can't guard anybody on earth for 40mins. To make the things worse he even makes Jokic look worse on D. Unless Murray is making shots at a high clip we play 4 on 5 all the time. He's been 2 for 18 from 3 on the last 3 games so you wonder how we didn't lose all 3. Jokic can save one out of 3 but not all 3 You know what’s worse for the Nuggets than Booker and Durant making extremely difficult shots or the risk that one of their bench guys will get hot in some game — live ball turnovers leading to easy dunks, which could get the Nuggets beat by a team vastly inferior to the Suns. This obsession with sub-elite aspects of Murray’s game is tiresome because it ignores things that have the Nuggets 6-3 in the playoffs so far, including that Murray has 29 assists against 8 turnovers in this series. But sure, let’s just give half of Murray’s minutes to a combination of Brown and Braun and see how that goes. I am not saying Murray is a bad player if that's your conclusion. I am looking at him solely as the second best Nugget who has the infinite freedom to do whatever he wants, to take as many shots as he want without being punished for it. That carries a huge responsibility and he's not living up to that. Last game he was ok on ofense but accounted directly for more than 50 Suns points. Game before that he was terrible on both ends of the floor. He's not conditioned properly to play 40+ minutes a game. He's the only player in both teams who clearly looks dead before end of games. He needs to play less minutes, to play smarter. Find me another second option of any PO team that went 2 for 18 from 3 on all wide open looks. |
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Post by rock on May 8, 2023 14:06:49 GMT -5
I feel like vegas knows something about jokic. The odds for game 5 are nuggets -5 Feels like we should load up on Phoenix. I can't believe we're here but I genuinely trust Phoenix more. Sucks. I meant if vegas thought jokic could get suspended no way they would have nuggets -5 |
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