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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2019 7:41:26 GMT -5
The bold is a statement that doesn't carry much weight because it's overly opinionated and made up. I'd more comfortably speculate the NBA, at any point in its history, has been comprised of impressive athletes. The level of athlete back then just isn't comparable to the level of athlete now. It's not even close. Jordan was one of the rare players back then who was a super athlete and was able to use that to his advantage. He had a MAJOR athleticism advantage over basically the entire league. And of course it's an opinion lol. Pretty much every stat points to Lebron except for rings. RPG, APG, BPG, (same in playoffs), efficiency from 2, efficiency from 3, etc. The 2 biggest things people bring up is rings/6-0 which is entirely fair/valid and "he was a killer/assassin" which is one of the most overrated things in all of sports...just as we saw with Jamal Murray at the end of Game 1 lol Either way lets dead the GOAT argument and move onto more relevant things like the Nuggets being down 0-1 in their first playoff series in 6 years I'd agree athletes are different today and are in all around better shape & conditioning; the overall quality of the athlete is better. Saying half, or more, of the league was nonathletic during the Jordan era is just irresponsible, made-up bullshit. The statistical arguments are fair points, but it makes sense LeBron has accumulated more stats because he's been in the league since he was 18 and has played more game. I'm going to roll with the 6-0 in the finals and his competitive fire to dominate. I don't think it's overrated and the 'eye-test' of watching him play showed he was a rare, special talent. Jordan had the desire & could walk the talk. Murray might have desire, but isn't at the level of Jordan to get it done. If efficiency is a state that matters, this site says Jordan is slightly ahead of LeBron - www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_career.htmlLeBron is a top all-time NBA talent, no doubt. I'd probably put him right behind Jordan, but would need to think on it further. It would be interesting to see where our little corner of NBA talk here at Nuggets talk ranks all-time NBA players. I wonder what our top 5, top 10, etc would look like. Sticky would probably ruin it by suggesting himself or Dennis Schroeder.
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Post by duh88 on Apr 16, 2019 7:46:48 GMT -5
it takes courage and self-awareness to admit you're the Dennis Rodman of your relationship lol. [ I would be a total f***ing loser without my wife. I would have died at 34 without her due to either alcohol poisoning or getting stabbed by a prostitute. Instead I get to run a company I created and love - never happens if she hadn’t challenged me. She has put up with all of my demons, and continually brings out my best. Sorry I’m getting so emotional on an nba board. Other than liberty itself - there is no greater gift than a good spouse. Carry on now about basketball all and f**k the Spurs!
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Post by odvala on Apr 16, 2019 8:07:20 GMT -5
That LAC comeback was a proof that hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard.
Our young squad have a lot of talent, hard work is yet to be seen from a lot of our youngsters (Including Jokic) outside of Jamal.
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Post by GBG on Apr 16, 2019 8:12:46 GMT -5
The level of athlete back then just isn't comparable to the level of athlete now. It's not even close. Jordan was one of the rare players back then who was a super athlete and was able to use that to his advantage. He had a MAJOR athleticism advantage over basically the entire league. And of course it's an opinion lol. Pretty much every stat points to Lebron except for rings. RPG, APG, BPG, (same in playoffs), efficiency from 2, efficiency from 3, etc. The 2 biggest things people bring up is rings/6-0 which is entirely fair/valid and "he was a killer/assassin" which is one of the most overrated things in all of sports...just as we saw with Jamal Murray at the end of Game 1 lol Either way lets dead the GOAT argument and move onto more relevant things like the Nuggets being down 0-1 in their first playoff series in 6 years Were you grown up during the 90S and witnessed Jordan's era ? Or have you just learned the "why is Lebron the GOAT for dummies" memo ? To argue that Jordan dominated because he "had a MAJOR athleticism advantage over basically the entire league" when you try to plead for Lebron as the GOAT is just laughable. The biggest freak is Lebron, I can't see how there could be a debate on that. At least Jordan had a clean technique, sharpened in UCLA. Lebron for years had flaws of a high-school baller. You argue that Jordan didn't have to face a team like the Warriors but who initiated the superteams era ? Lebron did in Miami, and that's maybe the biggest change he brought to the NBA. Thanks for that. And what competition did Lebron have in the East ? Not much, he was pretty easy to go lose a final each year. The East in the 90s was something else. Flo, I would have loved it if Jordan had gone to UCLA. However, he was a Dean Smith recruit at North Carolina.
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Post by flo on Apr 16, 2019 9:07:44 GMT -5
Yes indeed, I know that very well, just a morning mistype.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2019 14:23:02 GMT -5
The level of athlete back then just isn't comparable to the level of athlete now. It's not even close. Jordan was one of the rare players back then who was a super athlete and was able to use that to his advantage. He had a MAJOR athleticism advantage over basically the entire league. And of course it's an opinion lol. Pretty much every stat points to Lebron except for rings. RPG, APG, BPG, (same in playoffs), efficiency from 2, efficiency from 3, etc. The 2 biggest things people bring up is rings/6-0 which is entirely fair/valid and "he was a killer/assassin" which is one of the most overrated things in all of sports...just as we saw with Jamal Murray at the end of Game 1 lol Either way lets dead the GOAT argument and move onto more relevant things like the Nuggets being down 0-1 in their first playoff series in 6 years Were you grown up during the 90S and witnessed Jordan's era ? Or have you just learned the "why is Lebron the GOAT for dummies" memo ? To argue that Jordan dominated because he "had a MAJOR athleticism advantage over basically the entire league" when you try to plead for Lebron as the GOAT is just laughable. The biggest freak is Lebron, I can't see how there could be a debate on that. At least Jordan had a clean technique, sharpened in UCLA. Lebron for years had flaws of a high-school baller. You argue that Jordan didn't have to face a team like the Warriors but who initiated the superteams era ? Lebron did in Miami, and that's maybe the biggest change he brought to the NBA. Thanks for that. And what competition did Lebron have in the East ? Not much, he was pretty easy to go lose a final each year. The East in the 90s was something else. Compare the average NBA athlete during the Jordan era to the average NBA athlete during the Lebron era. The difference was much, much greater during the Jordan era. And while baby Jordan was getting ousted in the 1st round...baby Lebron was making the Finals with Zydrunas Ilgasukas as his 2nd best player. Also Lebron did not start the superteam, Boston did and his "superteam" was obviously nothing close to the one in GS. And while I'd agree that the East has been weak for a while...those Boston teams were very good. So were those Bulls teams. Everyone always brings up the East being a cakewalk for Lebron but in Jordans 6 title runs he only had 6 total series in the East go 6 or more games. Every single first round he swept 3-0. So was the East really that good? Were the 90s Knicks teams really better than the Rose era Bulls teams? IMO yes. The Pacers teams really better than the Core 4 Celtics teams? IMO no. I know your argument will be that "the Bulls were just that good" but in reality the level of competition in the 90s really wasn't that great. The first year Jordan left the Bulls almost made the ECF. Lost in 7 to the Knicks. The bad boy Pistons and the Knicks were the only true great teams during Jordans run in the East. And by time Jordan was winning rings the Pistons were pretty much past their prime and championship window. If you're going to argue the Price/Ehlo Cavs teams are better than some of the weaker teams Lebron has went through (PG Pacers) idk what to tell you. We simply disagree.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2019 14:26:10 GMT -5
The level of athlete back then just isn't comparable to the level of athlete now. It's not even close. Jordan was one of the rare players back then who was a super athlete and was able to use that to his advantage. He had a MAJOR athleticism advantage over basically the entire league. And of course it's an opinion lol. Pretty much every stat points to Lebron except for rings. RPG, APG, BPG, (same in playoffs), efficiency from 2, efficiency from 3, etc. The 2 biggest things people bring up is rings/6-0 which is entirely fair/valid and "he was a killer/assassin" which is one of the most overrated things in all of sports...just as we saw with Jamal Murray at the end of Game 1 lol Either way lets dead the GOAT argument and move onto more relevant things like the Nuggets being down 0-1 in their first playoff series in 6 years I'd agree athletes are different today and are in all around better shape & conditioning; the overall quality of the athlete is better. Saying half, or more, of the league was nonathletic during the Jordan era is just irresponsible, made-up bullshit. The statistical arguments are fair points, but it makes sense LeBron has accumulated more stats because he's been in the league since he was 18 and has played more game. I'm going to roll with the 6-0 in the finals and his competitive fire to dominate. I don't think it's overrated and the 'eye-test' of watching him play showed he was a rare, special talent. Jordan had the desire & could walk the talk. Murray might have desire, but isn't at the level of Jordan to get it done. If efficiency is a state that matters, this site says Jordan is slightly ahead of LeBron - www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_career.htmlLeBron is a top all-time NBA talent, no doubt. I'd probably put him right behind Jordan, but would need to think on it further. It would be interesting to see where our little corner of NBA talk here at Nuggets talk ranks all-time NBA players. I wonder what our top 5, top 10, etc would look like. Sticky would probably ruin it by suggesting himself or Dennis Schroeder. Without really doing a deep dive into numbers I think my top 10 would look like this Lebron Jordan Kareem Magic Russell Wilt Bird Shaq Duncan Kobe
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Post by odvala on Apr 16, 2019 15:14:21 GMT -5
Jordan was made of pure will. A competitive fire and unrelenting will to win no one had ever seen before and until today. You saw LeBron willing his team to win in that 2016 series? Yeah, Jordan’s will to win was greater than that. Jordan, even in that 1–9 stretch of Playoff losses early in his career, never had a bad Playoff series. Yeah, he lost early in his career. Everyone loses. However, you won’t have any question as to who is the best player on the floor, on both teams, even on a Chicago loss. Jordan always performed. He never gave up. And Jordan wanted to beat the best. Not join them. He carried the Bulls to a three peat from 1991 to 1993 with a not so stellar cast of players. Skill-wise, I think only Hakeem Olajuwon could match him. Skill-wise. He had insane fundamentals and he used it and combined it with his athleticism. He was basically unstoppable in defense and offense. He was complete. MJ has no weakness(es). He is literally the closest to being the perfect basketball player. You should watch MJ’s full games from 1985 up to his retirement to witness his greatness. From Bill Russell to present day players, stars or superstars 99.9% (Bron) admit that Jordan is GOAT. Not to mention coaches... My top 10: MJ Kareem LBJ Magic Bird Wilt Olajuwon Duncan Russell Shaq/Kobe (Share #10) Side note: You don't have "The Dream" on your list Ring? Dear god...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2019 15:23:23 GMT -5
Jordan was made of pure will. A competitive fire and unrelenting will to win no one had ever seen before and until today. You saw LeBron willing his team to win in that 2016 series? Yeah, Jordan’s will to win was greater than that. Jordan, even in that 1–9 stretch of Playoff losses early in his career, never had a bad Playoff series. Yeah, he lost early in his career. Everyone loses. However, you won’t have any question as to who is the best player on the floor, on both teams, even on a Chicago loss. Jordan always performed. He never gave up. And Jordan wanted to beat the best. Not join them. He carried the Bulls to a three peat from 1991 to 1993 with a not so stellar cast of players. Skill-wise, I think only Hakeem Olajuwon could match him. Skill-wise. He had insane fundamentals and he used it and combined it with his athleticism. He was basically unstoppable in defense and offense. He was complete. MJ has no weakness(es). He is literally the closest to being the perfect basketball player. You should watch MJ’s full games from 1985 up to his retirement to witness his greatness. From Bill Russell to present day players, stars or superstars 99.9% (Bron) admit that Jordan is GOAT. Not to mention coaches... My top 10: MJ Kareem LBJ Magic Bird Wilt Olajuwon Duncan Russell Shaq/Kobe (Share #10) Side note: You don't have "The Dream" on your list Ring? Dear god... Hakeem is my all time favorite player but yeah I wouldn't have him top 10. Maybe I'd swap him with Kobe idk. I'd have to really do a deep dive on the numbers. Duncan and Shaq > Hakeem though for me.
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Post by odvala on Apr 16, 2019 15:27:13 GMT -5
Hakeem is my favorite player of all time and his 94 season was something closest to perfection from start to end. From game 1 of regular season till the last game of the finals and on both ends of the floor. Duncan and Shaq had better careers than him but also played for better coaches and had way better teammates so my "bias" kicks in for that to put him over them Edit: regular season MVP, defensive player of the year, finals MVP...all in one year 27.3 PPG/11.9 REB/3.6 AST/3.7 BLK/1.6 STL A monster on offense and defense. This guy was unstoppable. Also, in 22 games in the playoffs he averaged 33 and 10.
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Post by scooter on Apr 16, 2019 15:52:58 GMT -5
Question for the group -- does Cousins torn quad make GS beatable in the playoffs this year?
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Post by odvala on Apr 16, 2019 15:57:31 GMT -5
Question for the group -- does Cousins torn quad make GS beatable in the playoffs this year? They were beatable by the Hou or Bucks with or without him. But there is no 3rd team this year that can win 4/7 vs GSW. On the same note, if they aproach to the game/series with full focus on both ends of the floor (especially D), then, there is no team that can win 4/7 in universe, not in NBA. I think that Hou/GSW series can go either way and that in the finals GSW/Hou vs Bucks can go either way as well.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2019 16:08:53 GMT -5
Question for the group -- does Cousins torn quad make GS beatable in the playoffs this year? They were already beatable but losing Cousins does nothing to hurt their chances really. Really bad on D. Only positive was he allowed their other guys to get extended rest.
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Post by JB on Apr 16, 2019 16:24:53 GMT -5
more beatable as in we might win two games in a hypothetical series. Cousins is generally a bad defender but he can body up Joker in the post.
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Post by LotharBraunBrownBryant on Apr 16, 2019 16:26:24 GMT -5
IMO any injury to a rotation player to GSW makes them more beatable simply because it means more load and therefore more injury chances for their other players. They're not losing 4 times to any team if they're clicking, but if they get multiple long series and tired legs they could end up with enough injuries that eventually some team will just be able to overpower them.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2019 16:44:33 GMT -5
I still think people are heavily underrating this Rockets team. I think they're better than last years tbh.
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Post by odvala on Apr 16, 2019 16:45:57 GMT -5
Boogie looking for Warrior's lead >>> Karma's a b***h
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Post by JB on Apr 16, 2019 18:13:53 GMT -5
I still think people are heavily underrating this Rockets team. I think they're better than last years tbh. Harden had nearly a 41% USG rate this season. only 16-17 Westbrook comes close in the history of the NBA, and that was basically a "screw it, let's dedicate the entire season to get Russ a MVP so he doesn't leave like KD" throwaway year for the Thunder. I think it's a safe bet Harden runs out of gas against the Warriors in the second round.
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Post by Camby's Left Nut on Apr 16, 2019 23:38:46 GMT -5
Thunder suck a******.
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Post by nuggetshipster on Apr 16, 2019 23:44:53 GMT -5
Watching this I'm sitting here thinking the Blazers FO is so f***ing stupid and lucky. Like they wanted to lose against Sacramento and face Utah -> GSW rather than this s**t OKC team and the winner in our shitty series.
Portland looking like a WCF team right now
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